8GB RAM on M3 MacBook Pro 'Analogous to 16GB' on PCs, Claims Apple

[Mac Fly (film)]

Apple care about one thing: money. They care not nearly as much for their lineup or their users. Greedy people.

 

[platinumaqua]

This might have merit if all apps were native Mac applications. However, the trend here is to ditch native Mac applications for crappy Electron apps which have way higher memory usage

 

[jillpygok]

If a van carrying 8 people is analogous to another van carrying 16 people, that first van must be twice as fast as the second. Apples silicon may be faster than PC's, but I don't think they are coming in at double the speed.

Or the first van has some really oversized people. 😝

 

[Miha_v]

Not really a fair argument. My older smaller After Effects projects can work fine on 8GB (720p projects) but can still max out my 192GB of RAM system.

I know too well how memory hungry After Effects are Yes, virtual memory is quite fast on SSD and barely perceptable (especially if you have enough storage), but not the healthiest thing for a dics (decreases life span).

 

[ArkSingularity]

Yes, I have one. But look at this question. It asks for someone to look using instrumentation to see how much RAM is in use. It does NOT ask about actually using the Mac to do actual work.

Everyone who looks will say "Almost all of the RAM is in use." Of course, it is because MacOS finds a use for all the RAM you have. If any is free, it will get used to cache files.

This is the point of the article, people who really don't understand OS internals are using tools to measure RAM use. THat is NOT what they should be doing. They should be doing things like using Lightroom to process a few hundred shots they just took with a DSLR, or they should be designing some parts with 3D CAD and then talking about how the Mac handles that task.

One last thing: If you need to use instrumentation to see inside the Mac, or if you need to set up tests and use a stopwatch, this means the effect you are talking about is too small to be noticed with normal human sesnses. Why worry about stuff no human can notice?

I actually did some testing on this recently by creating a Sonama beta VM with less than the minimum stated memory requirements (started at 4GB and went down from there). Much to my surprise, the system wasn't using any swap memory and the memory pressure was green. Felt pretty snappy even when loading several apps at once.

So I tried again with 2GB of RAM. Memory pressure hit yellow immediately, but swap usage was still only around 35MB at boot (less than I expected). Web browsing was still quite snappy and I could barely tell that it was running on such a low spec with only a web browser open (although some apps took several seconds longer than usual to launch, especially if multiple apps were already open).

I was able to get it to boot on as little as 1280MB of RAM, and was still able to get a web browser to open with multiple tabs. At that point, opening other apps was quite slow, so it clearly wasn't enough RAM. But it definitely did prove my assumptions that Mac OS will literally use less RAM if less is available.

Frankly, on 4GB, it performed quite well for what I would call "everyday use". I probably wouldn't have really been able to notice based on the performance alone if I didn't already know that the system was nerfed intentionally.

 

[bobcomer]

I think part of the issue is that most people misunderstand what “Pro” really means.

“Pro”s get their coffee at Starbucks.

Non-pros get their coffee at Dunkin’ Donuts.


“Pro”s have lunch at Panera.

Non-pros at lunch at McDonald’s.

Guess I'm a non-pro, even though I'm an IT Manager. (except I don't drink coffee at all)

 

[Hyperchaotic]

Windows has memory compression.



There’s some truth to that, but it’s kind of a stretch. 16 GiB of data is 16 GiB of data no matter how you slice it. Yes, you can compress some of it, or be fast at paging some of it out and back in, or use machine learning to figure out which of that data you actually need, but you could also simply fit all that data in, no compression, no paging, no tiering, all of which come with overhead.

So it’s a “it’s not as bad as it sounds” kind of answer.

Indeed, both Windows and Linux have memory compression, it's not a distinguishing feature. What is he comparing to then, a Commodore 64? But he can't sit there and boldly admit it's just product tiering, even though it's a normal business strategy.

 

[KPOM]

That’s fine. Just don’t say this is a machine catered to professionals then.

It’s the size of a MacBook Pro. It has the same screen as the other 14” MacBook Pros, and is heavier than the MacBook Air. What should they call it?

 

[Miha_v]

I use PhotoShop and Illustrator on a regular basis on an M1 iMac and it kicks the ass of my Intel MacBook Pro with 16GB RAM. Not a popular opinion but 8GB RAM is sufficient for apps like PhotoShop and Illustrator. Most people aren’t “power” users.

Great that you're happy with it, and for casual use of such apps this may be fine. After Effects are a lot hungrier regarding memory, though. Smaller amount of system memory means, more virtual memory writing has to be performed (which generally decreases disc life span).

 

[urtho]

So, the bare minimum to run the system. I am leery of using Windows on 16GB now, so Apple is telling me to be careful running MacOS on 8GB. Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully with the M4 refreshes 16GB becomes the base.

 

[Mcdevidr]

Apple knows what it is doing. 3rd party resellers will have sales and discounts on the standard SKUs but Apple knows that if you want a 16 GB model you will need to come to them to buy BTO and they don't reduce the prices.

Kinda true but Microcenter has always offered other configurations often on sale. Had a 15 inch air m2 for $1349 with 16gb ram. Best Buy surprisingly even had a 15 inch with 16.

 

[Mcdevidr]

I actually did some testing on this recently by creating a Sonama beta VM with less than the minimum stated memory requirements (started at 4GB and went down from there). Much to my surprise, the system wasn't using any swap memory and the memory pressure was green. Felt pretty snappy even when loading several apps at once.

So I tried again with 2GB of RAM. Memory pressure hit yellow immediately, but swap usage was only a couple hundred megabytes (less than I expected). Web browsing was still quite snappy and I could barely tell that it was running on such a low spec with only a web browser open (although some apps took several seconds longer than usual to launch, especially if multiple apps were already open).

I was able to get it to boot on as little as 1280MB of RAM, and was still able to get a web browser to open with multiple tabs. At that point, opening other apps was quite slow, so it clearly wasn't enough RAM. But it definitely did prove my assumptions that Mac OS will literally use less RAM if less is available.

Frankly, on 4GB, it performed quite well for what I would call "everyday use". I probably wouldn't have really been able to notice based on the performance alone if I didn't already know that the system was nerfed intentionally.

The real issue is with 8gb you’re gonna be limited on games. I played a few that would crash every so often on 8gb but not on 16 with m series. Anyways who cares honestly. Let people buy what they buy and if it don’t work for them, let them deal with it.

 

[ArkSingularity]

The real issue is with 8gb you’re gonna be limited on games. I played a few that would crash every so often on 8gb but not on 16 with m series. Anyways who cares honestly. Let people buy what they buy and if it don’t work for them, let them deal with it.

Yea, this is very true. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the GPU really responds to memory compression quite as well as the CPU does. I'm able to play games like Cities Skylines on an 8GB Mac (runs with about 7GB of swap usage when it runs), but I can't imagine something more graphically intensive would do very well.

When the GPU and the CPU share RAM, 8GB is kinda tight for graphics intensive tasks. Cinebench 2024 refuses to even run its GPU tests on such systems.

 

[Chuckeee]

Guess I'm a non-pro, even though I'm an IT Manager. (except I don't drink coffee at all)

You don’t drink coffee AND you are a MANAGER. Not sure if you should be allowed in the same room with a computer.
😁

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

It’s the size of a MacBook Pro. It has the same screen as the other 14” MacBook Pros, and is heavier than the MacBook Air. What should they call it?

Dunno. A MacBook?

 

[Rigby]

I mean, we all know it’s more efficient than Windows. That’s why we bought Macs!

I'm not convinced that MacOS is more efficient than modern Windows. I prefer it because I like the UI better, need the Unix underpinnings (although WSL on Windows is now largely alleviating that issue as well), and Microsoft is pushing too much junk (like making it difficult to create local accounts not tied to an MS account, or placing ads in the start menu). But under the hood Windows 11 is actually quite solid.

 

[Sir_Macs_A_Lot]

It’s the size of a MacBook Pro. It has the same screen as the other 14” MacBook Pros, and is heavier than the MacBook Air. What should they call it?

It's heavier than the MacBook Air...but also can only handle the same amount of external displays (1) without spending more money on a workaround. Should they call it "MacBook Amateur" or just simply "MacBook"?

 

[sunny5]

 

[iLuddite]

Bob said, “ACKSHULLY….”

 

[Apple_Robert]

Go back to every review on the M1 MacBook Air, 13" MBP, and mini when they first came out. Everybody was amazed how well 8GB worked and ran those tests I was talking about, such as running 50 apps at once. People were saying back then that 8GB was just like 16GB. Apple was just borrowing those comments from three years ago. I'm sure a lot of people here remember that.

Most of the people complaining about this issue on here expect Apple to give them more product for the same price. The problem is the entitlement mindset.

 

[hans1972]

That might be true for browsing in Safari but that's about it. As soon as it gets graphical, 8GB are just 8GB. Most modern PC games are barely optimized console ports that eat up A LOT of RAM. For example, Forespoken by Square-Enix wants at least 16GB of RAM, but recommended are 24GB. And it's still mediocre.

Nope, that's not true about only using Safari.

I can use a M1 Air with 8Gb of RAM and I'm using a Windows virtual machine and also the usual Office software, built-in Apple software. Editing amateur 4K video from an iPhone or a drone in iMovie isn't a problem either.

 

[vintimus]

This is starting to sound like the old Pentium vs G series chip arguments Apple pushed in the late 90s/early 2000s. Pro machine should start with 16 minimum.

 

[nawnp]

Ah yes the typical Apple, "don't compare us by pointing out the competition has better specs for the price, we have better software".

The fact is the iPhone 15 Pros have 8 GB of Ram and while expensive, they're $600 cheaper than that MacBook Pro and iOS was never as power hungry as Mac OS.

Also again another excuse to undercut customers, even in theory if 8GB for Mac OS=16GB for Windows, that's still standard on Windows machine half the price of the MacBook Pro, coming around to why Apple should still move to 16GB as a baseline.

 

[Gudi]

You must assume, we don't know this to post this video? Don't worry, we are all well aware of what's going on. Yes, Apple overcharges for RAM and SSD. And not just their usual 40% profit margin. Way way more, making their higher-spec machines even more profitable than the entry level Macs. But why can't they make a nice gain on something only true professionals need and only very rich people buy?

It's capitalism. Go ask someone else for a better deal. Don't buy what you can't afford and justify to yourself. Why do you think I'm not driving a Porsche? 🤷

 

[ArkSingularity]

It's capitalism. Go ask someone else for a better deal. Don't buy what you can't afford and justify to yourself. Why do you think I'm not driving a Porsche?

To be fair, people can still criticize one aspect of a product and still buy that product for various other reasons.