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8Gb vs 16Gb of ram

Alright, so:

I currently have a new retina model with 8gb, but I can take it back and order the 16GB variant if needed.

Now, this is what I normally do:
- Gaming, BF3, TF2, MC, etc.
- School Work (checking email too)
- Photo Editing (1 to 4 pics (20p to 1080p) at one time on photoshop,nothing very heavy duty at all)
- Video Editing (30 minutes of 1080p gaming vids at one time (one 30 minute long vid rendering in premiere pro), audacity might also be open)
(Things listed above are never done simultaneously.)
- I usually have safari/skype/rarely steam running in the background during anything I do
- I'm keeping the laptop for about 4 years.

+ I do the same on my desktop with Windows and I never run out of ram, my desktop runs on 8gb RAM currently.

So, is it really necessary to upgrade?
 
ThePilotGuy said:
Alright, so:

I currently have a new retina model with 8gb, but I can take it back and order the 16GB variant if needed.

Now, this is what I normally do:
- Gaming, BF3, TF2, MC, etc.
- School Work (checking email too)
- Photo Editing (1 to 4 pics (20p to 1080p) at one time on photoshop,nothing very heavy duty at all)
- Video Editing (30 minutes of 1080p gaming vids at one time (one 30 minute long vid rendering in premiere pro), audacity might also be open)
(Things listed above are never done simultaneously.)
- I usually have safari/skype/rarely steam running in the background during anything I do
- I'm keeping the laptop for about 4 years.

+ I do the same on my desktop with Windows and I never run out of ram, my desktop runs on 8gb RAM currently.

So, is it really necessary to upgrade?
Click to expand...

nope.
 
What about for running CAD programs for my architecture course (ie. Rhino and autocad) through either bootcamp or parallels/VMware? I would like to think I will still be using this machine in 4-5 years and can't decide if I should get the 16gb.
Thanks
 
What seems to be lacking in these discussions is the price of an upgrade.

When I purchased my 2010 MBP 15" with 4 GB of RAM the upgrade to 8 GB was $500.

Now I can buy a rMBP and upgrade the RAM from 8 GB to 16 GB for $200.

Given that it is not upgradeable later, that is peanuts and you will get that back in resale because when you sell it later 16 GB of RAM will be desirable!

Do it! Apple have made the BTO option cheap, do it!
 
I work mainly with Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop, and Lightroom. 8gb will probably be fine for the next year or so, but my main concern is more for 2+ years from now. Once Adobe updates ALL of these programs to retina, will it still be enough? Combine that with the web, all other apps updated to retina, and updates to the OS and it's easy to see how 16gb can become the norm. Everything tested today is still using mostly non-retina resolution apps with a few retina ones.

From my experience, RAM has always been the biggest bottleneck that was always easily fixed by user upgrading, until now.
 
Personally, I'll be running a vm of Windows 8 so I need at least 4gb of RAM for that, and at least 4gb of RAM for OSX...so that puts me right at 8. I'm sure 12gb would have been perfect, but since 16 is the only option higher than 8, c'est la vie
 
I really don't want to have to post this again, but it's been pushed to the last page, and I'd like more opinions.

ThePilotGuy said:
Alright, so:

I currently have a new retina model with 8gb, but I can take it back and order the 16GB variant if needed. I really don't want to take it back, though, as I'm going on vacation next week and would really like to use it during vacation.

Now, this is what I normally do:
- Gaming, BF3, TF2, MC, etc.
- School Work (checking email too)
- Photo Editing (1 to 4 pics (20p to 1080p) at one time on photoshop,nothing very heavy duty at all)
- Video Editing (30 minutes of 1080p gaming vids at one time (one 30 minute long vid rendering in premiere pro), audacity might also be open)
(Things listed above are never done simultaneously.)
- I usually have safari/skype/rarely steam running in the background during anything I do
- I'm keeping the laptop for about 4 years.
- no virtualization at all.


+ I do the same on my desktop with Windows and I never run out of ram, my desktop runs on 8gb RAM currently.

So, is it really necessary to upgrade?
Click to expand...
 
ThePilotGuy said:
I really don't want to have to post this again, but it's been pushed to the last page, and I'd like more opinions.
Click to expand...

The RAM is *soldered* to the motherboard with no ability to expand it without a soldering iron being involved (and surface mounted chips are *not* something you want to try to de/re-solder). You are *nuts* to not order 16GB unless you don't expect to keep the machine more than a couple of years. All the people saying 8GB are enough are projecting what their limited vision sees as future requirements (i.e. it's all based on their current workload). Plenty of folks have told you that 8GB is not enough for them (and I'm joining that group). 16GB will become the norm sooner or later. By ordering the 8GB you are gambling that won't happen before you are ready to move on to a new machine. Is $200 for the extra RAM now cheap enough insurance against the possibility? If not, just get the 8GB version and stop fretting about it.
 
ThePilotGuy said:
I really don't want to have to post this again, but it's been pushed to the last page, and I'd like more opinions.
Click to expand...

Just take it back and stop wondering.... it's what a few hundred bucks?

Make yourself happy and spend the money; clear your conscious of "I wonder if I should have"

I am not so sure anyone could make it more simple to understand for you, after 200 posts you still need help making your mind up eh?
 
Cisco_Kid said:
Just take it back and stop wondering.... it's what a few hundred bucks?

Make yourself happy and spend the money; clear your conscious of "I wonder if I should have"

I am not so sure anyone could make it more simple to understand for you, after 200 posts you still need help making your mind up eh?
Click to expand...


Well, yes, as for my specific circumstances, I don't really see myself using more then 8gb in a couple of years. I just want more opinions on that.
 
ThePilotGuy said:
Well, yes, as for my specific circumstances, I don't really see myself using more then 8gb in a couple of years. I just want more opinions on that.
Click to expand...

Just keep it. A 16gb upgrade is NOT going to give you a noticeable performance upgrade. When page outs happen on 8gb, you wont notice your system slowing down. Adding 16gb is not going to change that. Furthermore you will learn how to work more efficiently with your RAM and find ways around it. Humans have survived so far because of their ability to adapt. I am pretty sure you will adapt to 8gb too.

People here are anal and very paranoid but. I have a RMBP right now and I am using no more than 2.5gb. After days of use the inactive memory portion is going to build up and the system is going to page out. First of all I don't even notice it paging out or a degradation in system performance. Second of all I can run the purge command in terminal (or reboot) and it will instantly free up the inactive memory. But that is not even necessary cause I just don't notice any slowdowns at all.

Like I said people here are very paranoid. You will be fine with 8gb.
 
ThePilotGuy said:
Well, yes, as for my specific circumstances, I don't really see myself using more then 8gb in a couple of years. I just want more opinions on that.
Click to expand...

At this point, I don't think that there's much more that anyone could say. It sounds like that you've figured out your needs.
 
Just thought id share this for users of the late 2011 13" pro with i5 and 4gb ram... Ive just ordered te below kit to go to 16gb at 1600mhz so I'll post before/after geekbench scores and my personal verdict when it arrives later in the week.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007PZWWYK?ie=UTF8&ref=aw_bottom_links&force-full-site=1

I've only had the mbp a few weeks but bought the 4gb model with the intention of upgrading it myself to more ram and later an ssd.

I use Lightroom, ps5, iPhoto, mail, safari and handbrake mainly and have noticed that even just using these apps as viewers/browsers I am using 100% of the stock 4gb and getting up to 10% page outs.

The decision between 8gb and 16gb upgrade for
Me wasn't so much cost or needs right now as
For both I am sure 8gb would suffice but I don't want to have to revisit this in 2 years time when 8gb is becoming limited. I chose 16gb solely so I know it's more than I should ever need. I went for 1600mhz part so I know it's runnin it's best and part 'why not'. If the machine decides to run at 1333 then all I have lost is a few pound, no biggie. If it runs at 1600 and gives even a 5% improvement over 1333 then that's cool.

I came from a 8 year old amd based laptop so this is a whole new world of fast alread and, it would be awesome to get 5-8 years usage fro the MacBook pro too.
 
I use my machine to run 2 different stock trading software, Diablo 3, 10+ tabs in safari, MOG, massive Spreadsheets, email and whatever else just fine on my 1.86 C2D/4GB ram MBA.

I think a lot of people are forgetting how much the SSD helps. I am able to run Diablo 3 at pretty much max settings with AA off + all of the above with no issues. Although I am having a separate issue with D3 with my rMBP, it can handle the application itself amazingly well and think after a fresh install (instead of a copied version off my MBA) it may actually be okay.

Plus knowing the gaming world, D3 will be the only game worth playing for the next couple years just like WoW and COD/BF series.

EDIT: For me it was 16GB of ram vs Applecare. I went with the Applecare. Applecare will also add more to your resale value IMO and can always be cancelled and refunded for a prorated rate at ANY time within the 3 years.
 
Walter Bell said:
I use my machine to run 2 different stock trading software, Diablo 3, 10+ tabs in safari, MOG, massive Spreadsheets, email and whatever else just fine on my 1.86 C2D/4GB ram MBA.

I think a lot of people are forgetting how much the SSD helps. I am able to run Diablo 3 at pretty much max settings with AA off + all of the above with no issues. Although I am having a separate issue with D3 with my rMBP, it can handle the application itself amazingly well and think after a fresh install (instead of a copied version off my MBA) it may actually be okay.

Plus knowing the gaming world, D3 will be the only game worth playing for the next couple years just like WoW and COD/BF series.

EDIT: For me it was 16GB of ram vs Applecare. I went with the Applecare. Applecare will also add more to your resale value IMO and can always be cancelled and refunded for a prorated rate at ANY time within the 3 years.
Click to expand...

I think your assessment is reasonable...I'm doing the same. Plus got another $100 off at best buy so that extra 8GB would have cost me $300.
 
Everybody seems to be forgetting that thanks to the new SATA III SSD interface having 16 GB of RAM will not make much of a speed difference.
 
8 was fine for me

Despite panicking about 8 and cancelling and replacing an order for 16, I opted for 8 as a new Mac user. I haven't come close to using 4 yet alone 8 with my usage patterns.

Considering that Apple is selling boat loads of Airs with 4 in you can see the install base isn't even 8 let alone 16. If you have a need for 16 you'll already know it. If you don't then realistically I wouldn't worry.

I can dream of all theoretical needs, multiple VM's, large SQL dev environments to convince myself but in reality I won't be needing them.

:)
 
As promised, update on the 16gb 1600MHz kit I ordered for my 2011 13" MBP base model.

The kit is sold on Amazon UK by Komputerbay and put me back £85 shipped although its just annoyingly dropped to £73! Shipping time from order to delivered was 4 days.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007PZWWYK?ie=UTF8&ref=aw_bottom_links&force-full-site=1

Fitted this to my MBP (2011, i5 2.4GHz, 500gb HDD, 4gb RAM stock) and fired up, no problems at all. I've checked the system info and it reports 2x8gb installed and speed at 1600MHz.

I tested with geek bench as a basic before/after and with 4gb scored 6075, with 16gb scored 6469. I don't really know what this means but just FYI!
 
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
Is 8GB enough to run a virtual machine win7 1-2GB memory, aperture, firefox with many tabs opened, skype, adium you know the usual utils that everyone is running.
 
Seiko4169 said:
Despite panicking about 8 and cancelling and replacing an order for 16, I opted for 8 as a new Mac user. I haven't come close to using 4 yet alone 8 with my usage patterns.

Considering that Apple is selling boat loads of Airs with 4 in you can see the install base isn't even 8 let alone 16. If you have a need for 16 you'll already know it. If you don't then realistically I wouldn't worry.

I can dream of all theoretical needs, multiple VM's, large SQL dev environments to convince myself but in reality I won't be needing them.

:)
Click to expand...

Doesn't the RMBP need more ram than an Air due to more information being held in RAM to display on the larger display?
 
You guys can test for yourself whether you need the 16 GB or not. Having 8 vs 16 GB won't make your system faster. It will allow you to open more programs without having to page out memory.

It's that paging out of memory that will slow down your system. Having a SSD like the one in the rMBP really helps mitigate the effects of slowing down. You won't get a drastic slowdown as you might experienced using a hard drive.

Go to activity monitor and see how much "Free" memory you have.

I currently have 4.42 GB free. Adding 16GB to my system won't make it run faster, when having some memory free.

When you don't have memory free and your system starts paging out it feel a little slower, depending on the application. Again the Samsung 830 in the rMBP really helps mitigate it.

You can simulate what heavy page out on the rMBP will feel like, you can also try this at the Apple store.

Just open the "Terminal App". Type in 'irb'. This should bring up the ruby interpreter. By default it is version 1.8.7, I tested using 1.9.3, so I am sure my version saves more memory.

Anyway you can then type in

k = [] # This allocates array
k[2342343333] = 4 # This will allocate 17.47 GB in memory on Ruby 1.9.3 and maybe more on 1.8.7

If you kill the ruby process or type exit() in the same terminal, Ruby will exit and your System Memory will return.

Your system will definitely start to page out. Play around with it and see what it is like with no free memory. Open up Safari, Edit some Photos, do your normal work load.

I also ran Geek Bench, while there was no free memory and still got a decent score.
Around 10900.

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/841589

Whether the extra 180-200 for the additional 8GB of ram is worth it or not, it really based on your work load, how often your system is paging out, and whether you can handle it when your system does page out.

Most people won't experience page out when using 8GB, however if your running multiple VMs and lots of Safari Windows who knows :)
 
ppone said:
You guys can test for yourself whether you need the 16 GB or not. Having 8 vs 16 GB won't make your system faster. It will allow you to open more programs without having to page out memory.

It's that paging out of memory that will slow down your system. Having a SSD like the one in the rMBP really helps mitigate the effects of slowing down. You won't get a drastic slowdown as you might experienced using a hard drive.

Go to activity monitor and see how much "Free" memory you have.

I currently have 4.42 GB free. Adding 16GB to my system won't make it run faster, when having some memory free.

When you don't have memory free and your system starts paging out it feel a little slower, depending on the application. Again the Samsung 830 in the rMBP really helps mitigate it.

You can simulate what heavy page out on the rMBP will feel like, you can also try this at the Apple store.

Just open the "Terminal App". Type in 'irb'. This should bring up the ruby interpreter. By default it is version 1.8.7, I tested using 1.9.3, so I am sure my version saves more memory.

Anyway you can then type in

k = [] # This allocates array
k[2342343333] = 4 # This will allocate 17.47 GB in memory on Ruby 1.9.3 and maybe more on 1.8.7

If you kill the ruby process or type exit() in the same terminal, Ruby will exit and your System Memory will return.

Your system will definitely start to page out. Play around with it and see what it is like with no free memory. Open up Safari, Edit some Photos, do your normal work load.

I also ran Geek Bench, while there was no free memory and still got a decent score.
Around 10900.

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/841589

Whether the extra 180-200 for the additional 8GB of ram is worth it or not, it really based on your work load, how often your system is paging out, and whether you can handle it when your system does page out.

Most people won't experience page out when using 8GB, however if your running multiple VMs and lots of Safari Windows who knows :)
Click to expand...

You know I think the last line is false. It seems Lion does not manage memory well and inactive memory quickly ramps up.

I had Safari, itunes and a 2 gig Windows 7 VM open and was paging out. Why? 2.1 gigs of inactive memory.

Unless Mountain Lion fixes this, I think almost everyone will page out. Will they notice. Probably not if they have an SSD.

Windows has been using disk to create virtual memory for years and I have never given it a second thought. Why is it so hard to get a clear understanding of this impact to a Mac.

Apple and Apple Enthusiasts say Mac OS is the best...based on this I'd say No way.
 
ZipZap said:
You know I think the last line is false. It seems Lion does not manage memory well and inactive memory quickly ramps up.

I had Safari, itunes and a 2 gig Windows 7 VM open and was paging out. Why? 2.1 gigs of inactive memory.

Unless Mountain Lion fixes this, I think almost everyone will page out. Will they notice. Probably not if they have an SSD.

Windows has been using disk to create virtual memory for years and I have never given it a second thought. Why is it so hard to get a clear understanding of this impact to a Mac.

Apple and Apple Enthusiasts say Mac OS is the best...based on this I'd say No way.
Click to expand...

The reason why inactive memory ramps up is because Lion does manage memory well. It uses it for caching quite aggressively. Your effective free RAM is Free + Inactive. This works normally, but sometimes things don't go according to plan. It's good practise to purge (type purge in the Terminal) after using an application that uses lots of RAM (or browsing the web with 20 tabs open).
 
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