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Discussion in 'iPad' started by bulbousnub, Jan 25, 2016.
Does 9.3b2 fix the scrolling/selection issues with the Apple Pencil on the iPad Pro?
Nope, it is not fixed.
I'm actually a little worried that this is now the intended behaviour by apple. I wouldn't be surprised if apple wanted to force the users to use "normal" touch for everything but drawing/note taking.
The best thing to do is to make sure to submit bug reports that the pencil is not working properly. If Apple has in fact decided to remove this functionality, this may be the only way to get them to change their minds.
Why the hell would they do that? The pencil was actually a great tool for example on excel as it is a more precise tool for some actions. I really don't get it if they did this on purpose
With any other manufacturer this would clearly just be a bug that will eventually get fixed. With Apple though, it can be hard to tell. They have a nasty habit of sometimes going against common sense and deciding that things should only work according to the way they originally envisioned it. That's why many times when something doesn't work in an iOS beta, people get very fearful that Apple simply decided to remove the functionality altogether. It's asinine, but it does happen...
Still having said all that, I still think this is just a bug...
If this is Apple's way forward i for one will certainly not be upgrading my ios
It was always the intended behaviour. Right from the beginning the message was: The iPP will remain touch first and use the Pencil only for drawing and writing. It never was intended for navigating the ui.
Edit: corrected spelling
Yeah, I know. I should rather have said that Apple just now decided to implement that behavior into the software.
I am waiting until this issue is confirmed one way or the other before I buy the pencil. If it is only used in drawing apps, then it is useless to me.
I can't see them removing it. Has everyone filed bug reports?
I only decided to keep the Pencil because I could use it to navigate the UI. For me it takes less effort than using touch and is also more precise. I would've returned it if I was limited to drawing apps (I mostly use it for navigation and Notes).
Look at this website - Nothing there say the Pencil is for navigating the ui. Or did people never look at the device description when buying?
Sorry, I skipped the website and spent actual time with it in the Apple Store. Anyone who says it was a "bug" is being ridiculous - if they indeed disable this behaviour it's because they've changed their mind on how the Pencil should be used.
Using the Pencil primarily as a UI navigation device is definitely not one of the primary intents Apple had with the iPad Pro. In particular, if you look at this interview with Jony Ive:
Having said that, I'm impressed at how many people use the Pencil as a precision input alternative to a mouse on the iPad Pro. It is a use case that I didn't really expect to be so popular. It's very interesting.
I can't see any advantage in Apple disabling this (I'm pretty sure is unintended) feature, but I'd suggest that for those who really want the feature (there clearly are many, and the use cases seem well justified), perhaps e-mailing Tim Cook would help. If enough users display an active interest in preserving this feature, I believe Apple will keep it. Like me, they may not have anticipated the popularity of this particular use case.
Its the same thinking as mouse support for iPad - Not welcome on iOS. Look at Surface for the suck the availability of a precision pointer leads to: Desktop UI for Tablet-usage...
I've been tracking with you so far in this thread until this post. Out of all the things that contribute to the mess that Microsoft has made of the Surface, supporting a mouse/trackpad is not one of them.
I find the response to Apple's removal of support for general navigation using the Pencil quite interesting. Some of the same people who railed against Apple including any support for a mouse/trackpad are complaining about not being able to use the Pencil as an alternative to a mouse.
Basically, the Pencil is supposed to be Apple's official response to the various Bluetooth stylus options that have been available for the iPad. Those BT styli can't be used for navigation but only for writing and drawing within apps that have been written to support those styli. Exactly as the Apple Pencil does.
I use a powered capacitive stylus (the DotPen) on my Air 2. Since that is technically nothing more than a capacitive stylus with a fine point, I can use it to navigate. The downside is no pressure sensitivity and no palm rejection (but a home made art glove solves that).
Dranix - dont get worked up my friend.
So you dont like Pencil support across the board, and Apple never intend it, fact is they've recently given it to us, and now they want to take it away. why give it in the first place?
To some of us it's a fantastic thing. For me it's an absolute game changer. I didn't buy the Pro on the strength of the Pencil, but now i have this brilliant input and scroller pencil thing, i want to keep it!
if you (or Apple) no like then why not just ignore? we're not harming anyone.
I was, and still am, very very mouse pro, but the more i use the Pencil as a pseudo mouse the more and more i'm liking it better as an input device on my touch device. Maybe develop the Pencil with buttons or an 'eraser' but whatever, there's nothing i find i want a mouse for that the Pencil couldnt do even better i think (for me anyway).
long may it last.
hopefully Apple will let us have this option open to us. it isnt harming the UI or the ecosystem. if anything, its winning more fans than offending them, as with yourself.
Have you noticed the latest update to Microsoft Word? When you touch the pen to the screen the ribbon changes to the draw ribbon and all you can do is draw or write. You can use menu commands, but no scrolling. I think this is the usage we are coming to.
This is exactly WHY they want to do it. They don't _want_ apps developed with the idea that people can use the Pencil as a more precise tool. It would cause a schism in the platform: App developers would start to develop UI's with input that essentially "requires" a Pencil to use it properly. Apple wants to avoid that in order to keep the ecosystem "touch based".
If you look at Windows on a Surface tablet you can see the problem. It can run regular desktop apps in tablet mode... but it's incredibly hard to target the tiny interface elements with a finger. It basically requires the stylus.
Love the apple apologists
If I have the choice of either;
1) the pencil being able to navigate the UI
2) apps knowing as the pencil starts moving and switching to 'draw' mode or similar
I'll take 2. Smart app behaviours is pretty impressive.
--- Post Merged, Jan 31, 2016 ---
If my pencil 'touches' safari - I want to automatically annotate the screen - not move it. Would be very cool/useful
--- Post Merged, Jan 31, 2016 ---
I agree. I'd like something like the Web Notes on Windows 10.
Really you would hope apple would let you use it how you want
uh, you know that this is APPLE we're talking about, right? They excel in selling you things and telling you how you're going to use it.
That's a strawman argument. The existent of physical keyboards hasn't caused app developers to write apps that rely on using key combinations that are only viable with an external keyboard, or rely on having additional screen space available due to no needing the on-screen keyboard.
The comparison to the Surface is misapplied. There are no "desktop apps" for iOS. The User Interface components are designed for touch. There is no user interface for iOS that is microscopic due to an expectation of having a mouse or trackpad.
With the Surface (or actually ALL Windows tablets) there are not a quantity of quality touch-optimized Modern UI apps and therefore users have to settle for using desktop apps to fill the gap. That won't and can't happen with iOS.
That wouldn't even happen if Apple added optional support for mice and trackpads.
Well I did say hope
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