Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
No, nothing's settled. I can set my Surface Pro which I do have to 48hz and it's immediately noticeable. At 60hz it's nice and smooth - and visually indistinguishable from my 9.7" Pro. And scrolling on the Pro looks the same as scrolling on my rMB.

That's nice, you not being able to distinguish a difference obviously means theres no difference.

It's a fact Apple is using a variable refresh rate, and a different panel. Both of which could be producing these bad affects, but that won't matter when someone is trying to see something else.
[doublepost=1460562174][/doublepost]
You shouldn't have any ghosting unless you are using it in a very cold environment tbh, use the youtube app not the website as its mince, not that the app is much better. One thing I prefer on the Pro is that when scrolling it no longer bends the display as it refreshes from side to side which always did my nut in.

I was using the YouTube app. Room temperature was in the lower 70's. I saw the same problem in the store side by side to the air 2, along with two of the employees there, but apparently my eyes are special and I see things nobody else can.
 
That's nice, you not being able to distinguish a difference obviously means theres no difference.

It's a fact Apple is using a variable refresh rate, and a different panel. Both of which could be producing these bad affects, but that won't matter when someone is trying to see something else.
[doublepost=1460562174][/doublepost]

I was using the YouTube app. Room temperature was in the lower 70's. I saw the same problem in the store side by side to the air 2, along with two of the employees there, but apparently my eyes are special and I see things nobody else can.

I'm not saying you aren't seeing something but my Pro is in no way refreshing at 30hz when scrolling which is easy to see - and I can verify it by setting my other devices to 30hz.
 
I'm not saying you aren't seeing something but my Pro is in no way refreshing at 30hz when scrolling which is easy to see - and I can verify it by setting my other devices to 30hz.

It could be the different panel then, possibly the variable refresh rate being buggy, or just limited in how good the variable rr can operate.
 
They are not! If that was the case why does the SE carry the same camera as the 6S or 6 and have the latest processor some of iPhone 6s features. The only reason it's cheap as like I say it's prob alt old iPhone 5S stock or parts adding an extra colour which might ramp up production but only a small amount.

Fact: components seem to be cheap regarding SE pricing

Yet fact: iPad components are going up

Contradiction? The iPad Pro is also an older shell first used on the air 1. It's not new nothing to increase costs. Speakers are probably about 5p and most use Bluetooth speakers these days anyway.

Nobody is pulling the wool over anybody's else's the odd fan is sticking up but I've never seen so much lack of enthusiasm for a new iPad. The excitement is for the IPad Pro as it has 4gb ram and it's larger.

Apple has failed not in a major way just people will avoid the 9.7" pro in favour of cheaper iPads or the larger Pro. It takes any fun or excitement out of last months announcement?
[doublepost=1460548465][/doublepost]Apple probably felt just adding Pro was enough to the name only it's been unraveled as nothing more than an Air 3 with a pencil and could have been called Air 3.

What next IPhone 7 minus 7 with a Pro name add £100? Very possible so I shall wait and see if I swap my 6S. Rumour is they want a even larger iPhone by a few inches for those extra cameras so I expect Apple to try and flog the name.

Atleast the Air name never added £££$$$$€€€€ to products. Numbering them never but Pro? Leave the Pro for the Mac book range whoever at Apple is coming up with this is making Apple look silly whilst the general consumer still see it as only the latest iPad.

Bonkers.

If every company could come up with a name they would all be rich. Microsoft tried to sell Windows on phones and that flopped in a massive way. We all know now jobs is there Apple copy Samsung that's bad enough but atleast IOS is better. Apple are trying to be like Dyson almost sell a name.

iOS and Mac book are very very different customers I don't need to tell many on these forums but the majority who use iOS probably use Windows. I know many Apple fans use both on here but Windows remains cheaper and more popular for the consumer and we buy iPad as it can do what a PC can do just as good

/ rant over
Sjeez


I guess you would have been glad if Apple just released the iPad air2, with true tone and an a9x, with 16gb for the same introduction price as the air 2 16gb.

If you don't like it, there is a choice.
You using Bluetooth speakers, is your choice, so if you don' t need the better speakers, don' t blame Apple for putting them in as a feature. You have really lost it.....

Buy an iPad Air 2 or some other tablet then, apple doesn't t owe you anything. You owe yourself making the best choice for your budget. If the iPad Pro 9.7 isn't it for you, make another choice. If you are right there will still be a lot of new iPad Air 2 buyers, so Apple will still make profits. And that's it. Making a profit, if no profit is made, development stops...

It is like I really hate BMW for making a 3 series too expensive, but then I could buy the 2 series, or buy another brand of car. Or I wait for year for the new model, and get the old model at a discount.
 
For what it's worth, I just upgraded from the original Air 1 to the 9.7" iPad Pro and the first thing I noticed was the screen. Noticeable improvement. The contrast and range of colors are much better. I personally noticed much more nuance. Next, of course, was the speed. So much faster than the Air 1.

As an aside, I'm finding the Apple Pencil is the Artist's tool I hoped it would be.
 
Haven't really noticed any color differences over my Air 2. I do like Night Shift but don't use the True Tone. The screen is noticeably less reflective though.
True Tone is it's BEST feature for Photographers
[doublepost=1460564289][/doublepost]
Wish both iPad Pro had the exact same features and the only difference would be the size.
hopefully next version
 
erm, don't buy one then and its not greed its business. Ship a new range of iPads with class leading performance, faster ram and nand, best display out there, pencil support then pop the price up a bit as you are offering more, drop the price on the older model and give yourself a new price point for future models rather than being stuck at the older price which hasn't changed year after year. Sounds like good business.

I have money ready for a good ipad if need be but I don't mind it not being a big update we know ipad updates can be slow however Pro name with £100 and a clear tech savvy forum we can see that this is not worth a £100 mark up its profiteering but on the scale of Apple we are talking probably many million possibly more even if sales are slower. Do the maths it's 1/5 more even if they sell less iPads the profits are high.

Perhaps that's the idea sell less iPads higher mark up. Clearly that means Apple is saying to core fans come on queue you will buy any old crap.

That's why I'm voting with my wallet and saying no new iPad and I hope when apple check 9.7" sales they are the worst ever. Might make them rush out a fair price 16gb entry model.

£399 is top market but entry for Apple

£499 you can almost afford Mac book or you would be able to purchase a used one.

iPod is affordable, iPhone is with a contract, iPad? Well it was people don't always buy 3G ones with a contract more Wi-fi cash or credit card don't they? I was just as angry when they hiked up the IPhone price from £499 but that was not as much as £100.


£100 for an "Air 3" is apple profiteering of fans by all means buy it it's slightly ether than my air 2 but with the weak resell value each year the "yearly update cycle" is not a good deal for anybody even Apples core fans.
[doublepost=1460565821][/doublepost]
Sjeez


I guess you would have been glad if Apple just released the iPad air2, with true tone and an a9x, with 16gb for the same introduction price as the air 2 16gb.

If you don't like it, there is a choice.
You using Bluetooth speakers, is your choice, so if you don' t need the better speakers, don' t blame Apple for putting them in as a feature. You have really lost it.....

Buy an iPad Air 2 or some other tablet then, apple doesn't t owe you anything. You owe yourself making the best choice for your budget. If the iPad Pro 9.7 isn't it for you, make another choice. If you are right there will still be a lot of new iPad Air 2 buyers, so Apple will still make profits. And that's it. Making a profit, if no profit is made, development stops...

It is like I really hate BMW for making a 3 series too expensive, but then I could buy the 2 series, or buy another brand of car. Or I wait for year for the new model, and get the old model at a discount.

Yes because taking it down to 16gb that's effectively what it is. Not everyone wants pencil support and at £499 if you fancy a new iPad and that's the entry price it won let be an essential purchase if it was your looking at £479 is it? And if you want 3G? Someone said the top end is one is nearing a grand.

What sort of Mac can I buy for that price because I would fancy a swap from Windows but they have always been expensive iOS is something everybody can save for or working class can buy them from CeX and Gumtree or eBay if on a much smaller budget?


If you can afford £100 extra and a pencil for 80 quid what job do you have just be better than mine as I always thought iPad was luxury item unless you have a lottery win?
[doublepost=1460565972][/doublepost]And tell me why 64gb has become so small in a year that I need 128gb at a time when I can rent movies and they store on iCloud or delete or buy iCloud and watch via wi-fi or music again the cloud or the App Store isn't what it use to be? If you are using the new iPad I'm sure well I can't see everybody filling it.

iPad just went from affordable to for the rich. I feel strongly about it and I welcome further chats on here to debate it and would love to hear Apples answer to why iPad is now Mac book price?
 
  • Like
Reactions: shareef777
For what it's worth, I just upgraded from the original Air 1 to the 9.7" iPad Pro and the first thing I noticed was the screen. Noticeable improvement. The contrast and range of colors are much better. I personally noticed much more nuance. Next, of course, was the speed. So much faster than the Air 1.

As an aside, I'm finding the Apple Pencil is the Artist's tool I hoped it would be.

Great but other than the screen I enjoyed the 2gb ram and split screen for a year and a half I updated my air and 1gb ram was not enough.

For future proofing the Pro had to have 3gb or 4gb or good luck with iOS11/12 if you want to keep it a few years.

iPad Pro larger one has 4gb imagine an old pro vs even my air or your Pro when another generation one has the 4gb at 9.7 inches?
 
I wouldn't consider being able to perceive refresh rate differences as an abnormality, more like I'm just more attuned to those types of things than the average consumer. That's a fair enough stance for me.

So what you're saying is the iPad Pro, isn't designed for Pros? Whaaaaaaat!!!!?
 
But it's only 18mo old. Isn't that like ... just yesterday in the tech world? /s

If we are taking IPhone SE this shell is from 2012 it was the successor to the 4S. We had three iPhones since and iPhone 7 could take on a new form. SE is a museum piece which is a shame as under the hood it's a new phone spoiled by the older case and not a smaller 6 case.

One should ask why early leaks shown a smaller phone in this case? Probably Apple chucked it for something cheaper?
[doublepost=1460566320][/doublepost]
So what you're saying is the iPad Pro, isn't designed for Pros? Whaaaaaaat!!!!?

No usb 3.0 check a list of what it doesn't have no 4gb ram. Anybody after a pro doesn't care about cameras read these forums people in this market with £499 to spend are wanting the larger pro. It's not much more expensive!
[doublepost=1460566423][/doublepost]And I'm sure you can agree people would rather pay the extra for a bigger screen than an iPhone camera in an iPad which people tend not to use as there main camera.
 
For what it's worth, I just upgraded from the original Air 1 to the 9.7" iPad Pro and the first thing I noticed was the screen. Noticeable improvement. The contrast and range of colors are much better. I personally noticed much more nuance. Next, of course, was the speed. So much faster than the Air 1.

As an aside, I'm finding the Apple Pencil is the Artist's tool I hoped it would be.

The Air is 2.5 years old today. Grab any device and a 2.5 yo predecessor and you'll see significant improvements.
 
Great but other than the screen I enjoyed the 2gb ram and split screen for a year and a half I updated my air and 1gb ram was not enough.

For future proofing the Pro had to have 3gb or 4gb or good luck with iOS11/12 if you want to keep it a few years.

iPad Pro larger one has 4gb imagine an old pro vs even my air or your Pro when another generation one has the 4gb at 9.7 inches?


I buy a new iPad roughly every 2-3 years so cadence is not an issue. I see your point, though. We have 3 active iPads in use around my house, with the oldest original 3G iPad the only one I have sold off. If I was waiting to extend that lifetime to 4 solid years, maybe I would have more concern.

The value of the screen and ability to use the keyboard and pencil is by far the selling point for me, with the other factors nice-to-have's.
 
So who is posting these reviews?

The pro is an air 3

The larger air is pro.

2017 is likely to change this and bring it all in line but that's not the point we are reviewing a iPad with 2gb ram no 4K why are they posting pro Apple lies promising major change when it's minimal change? Someone should answer this please ..
[doublepost=1460566658][/doublepost]
I buy a new iPad roughly every 2-3 years so cadence is not an issue. I see your point, though. We have 3 active iPads in use around my house, with the oldest original 3G iPad the only one I have sold off. If I was waiting to extend that lifetime to 4 solid years, maybe I would have more concern.

The value of the screen and ability to use the keyboard and pencil is by far the selling point for me, with the other factors nice-to-have's.

Yep and the change from the heavy iPad to 2 was big and the lighter air models the iPad 2 for example is very old now.

Air 1 is a capable tablet minus 2gb ram but Apple had extra time so so speak they missed a fall slot to wait till March to give us an Air 3 that's why I'm angry as I do update but the price and lies in these articles and Pro tag to me seem like Apple is taking customers for mugs? Do they not realise these days in a day this tablet is ripped down and we see what it's like inside?

I've been debating this for weeks and gave up but I'm angry that these reviews can be posted as "major" change when it's just not if you exlcude pencil support you are not seeing major change its mininmal and if you want to upgrade fine but let's be transparent and offer fair and open reviews.

Why does Mac rumours pick up on it? How reputable are the reviewers? They probably get these tablets free to trial and give it back they probably sit on a £1000 Mac book and write the review at home.

This is what annoys me compete bias. And usually reviews have been fair when it's a small update they usually say it why lie this year?
 
So who is posting these reviews?

The pro is an air 3

The larger air is pro.

2017 is likely to change this and bring it all in line but that's not the point we are reviewing a iPad with 2gb ram no 4K why are they posting pro Apple lies promising major change when it's minimal change? Someone should answer this please ..
[doublepost=1460566658][/doublepost]

Yep and the change from the heavy iPad to 2 was big and the lighter air models the iPad 2 for example is very old now.

Air 1 is a capable tablet minus 2gb ram but Apple had extra time so so speak they missed a fall slot to wait till March to give us an Air 3 that's why I'm angry as I do update but the price and lies in these articles and Pro tag to me seem like Apple is taking customers for mugs? Do they not realise these days in a day this tablet is ripped down and we see what it's like inside?

Please stop. It is obvious you don' t agree, don' t need the pencil or keyboard and don' t need the speakers and upgraded camera.
Just get or keep an air 2. It is $100 lower now, so it is a nice deal for people that don't want the 9.7 pro.
But i guess the point is that you want it for $50 less than retail price. Look around, there should be some deals soon with $50 off retail price.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frobozz
The Air is 2.5 years old today. Grab any device and a 2.5 yo predecessor and you'll see significant improvements.

Yes. I upgrade every other model on both my iPhones and iPads. If you're on the Air 1 like I was you would be pleasantly surprised by the speed and screen, all things being equal. If you don't care about the pencil or keyboard, then I could see the price bump as an annoyance, for sure. I definitely like it and am satisfied. What they're charging for the pencil and keyboard is outrageous on top of the price bump. The pencil, however, is a revelation for an artist or designer.
 
Please stop. It is obvious you don' t agree, don' t need the pencil or keyboard and don' t need the speakers and upgraded camera.
Just get or keep an air 2. It is $100 lower now, so it is a nice deal for people that don't want the 9.7 pro.
But i guess the point is that you want it for $50 less than retail price. Look around, there should be some deals soon with $50 off retail price.

Why stop without answers? Nobody has given a good reason to show how the components of this iPad are worth £100 more. You think it's worth more maybe? If that's the case is it an administration fee for a pro name tag? If you believe it's worth it explain why and with prices as tear down and production costs are popular discussion on Mac rumours main page.
[doublepost=1460569648][/doublepost]
Yes. I upgrade every other model on both my iPhones and iPads. If you're on the Air 1 like I was you would be pleasantly surprised by the speed and screen, all things being equal. If you don't care about the pencil or keyboard, then I could see the price bump as an annoyance, for sure. I definitely like it and am satisfied. What they're charging for the pencil and keyboard is outrageous on top of the price bump. The pencil, however, is a revelation for an artist or designer.

You will notice it from Air 1 yes that's been around a while now but the £100 price over Air 2 needs properly questioned. I could stretch more money but that's the word others can't afford. I won't stretch this year anyway as its not an update from Air.

Perhaps Apple know this but still I do fear as an apple observer and fan they have priced many out at the entry price.
 
Hmm, much brighter but same contrast ratio. That means the blacks are brighter, especially noticeable in dark areas. I'll stick with my Air 2 and wait for the OLED version.
The blacks are measured at the highest brightness setting and appear higher because the backlight is stronger. Since you won't need the extra brightness of the display in dark areas, the backlight will come down to where you used to keep it on the Air 2 (which was probably below full brightness on that device as well) and the blacks won't be any brighter in the dark.

Basically, the display has the same brightness and contrast in a dark room as an Air 2, unless you're using it as a flashlight, but far better contrast if you turn the lights on.

Contrast in a lit room has doubled though because the reflectivity of the display is so incredibly low and the backlight is stronger.
 
Why stop without answers? Nobody has given a good reason to show how the components of this iPad are worth £100 more. You think it's worth more maybe? If that's the case is it an administration fee for a pro name tag? If you believe it's worth it explain why and with prices as tear down and production costs are popular discussion on Mac rumours main page.
[doublepost=1460569648][/doublepost]

You will notice it from Air 1 yes that's been around a while now but the £100 price over Air 2 needs properly questioned. I could stretch more money but that's the word others can't afford. I won't stretch this year anyway as its not an update from Air.

Perhaps Apple know this but still I do fear as an apple observer and fan they have priced many out at the entry price.
There is no bom evaluation of the iPad Pro 9.7 yet.
But let's turn it around.
What is the bom of the 64gb iPad Air 2 vs the bom of the 32gb iPad Pro 9.7? The iPad Air 2 64gb was the same price with introduction as the 9.7 32gb iPad Pro.

I bet the 9.7 inch 32gb iPad Pro has a higher bom now, than the iPad Air 2 when it was introduced. I bet the bom of an iPad Air 2 128gb was even lower than this 32 go iPad Pro 9.7. And that was priced higher when it was released than this iPad 9.7 32gb pro.
 
Why stop without answers? Nobody has given a good reason to show how the components of this iPad are worth £100 more.
Because the answer is self evident. In the UK and other free market economies, the price of a product isn't based on its components, it's based on the value the buyer derives from owning it. In fact, your whole tax system is based on only taxing the value added beyond the cost of the components used. And we don't all get individual pricing, so the price isn't based on the value that one buyer derives from it but is based on the value the largest number of buyers derive from it.

Different buyers value something for different reasons-- some might like the new display, some the pencil, some the improved cameras. Some may just enjoy having the latest models of things and the price is low enough as a fraction of their income, that they can afford to stay abreast of the updates. Steve Jobs, for example, is said to have replaced his Mercedes often enough that he never had to put license plates on them.

Some buyers would actually be willing to pay more than they do, but benefit from the fact that the price is set for the largest number of buyers. In economics, this is called the consumer surplus. For those people, if they break their old iPad and need to replace it, they're perfectly willing to pay the extra price for even the slightest improvement because they already paid less than they would for what they had.

So the answer to your question is rather simple, if unsatisfying: it's worth £100 more because enough people are willing to pay £100 more. If they aren't, the price will come down. Harping on this for this long suggests that people aren't so much uneducated about what the iPad Pro offers, but are trying to convince others to change their determination of value-- which is just silly.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: GadgetJoey
I just want to know if the display on the 9.7" iPad Pro is more RELIABLE than the display of the iPad Air 2. I'm on my fourth unit (the previous three all had display issues) also, every iPad Air 2 that I dealt with personally (through friends and family) also had some kind of display issues as well; be it bad backlights or LCD distortion (rippling) with minimal pressure to the screen. The fact that this makes me feel like my iPad Air 2 is an AppleCare ticking time bomb is the only real reason why I am at all tempted by the 9.7" Pro as a replacement. Thankfully the mini 4 has been substantially more reliable in this regard.

Also, I hate to say it, but Apple's marketing for 9.7" iPads is extremely stupid (iPad, iPad 2, iPad third generation aka "The New iPad", iPad fourth generation, iPad Air, iPad Air 2, iPad Pro 9.7") and needlessly confusing. I think I'm going to sell or retire my Air 2 and just wait to see how Apple's near future (in terms of 9.7" iPads) plays out.
 
I just want to know if the display on the 9.7" iPad Pro is more RELIABLE than the display of the iPad Air 2. I'm on my fourth unit (the previous three all had display issues) also, every iPad Air 2 that I dealt with personally (through friends and family) also had some kind of display issues as well; be it bad backlights or LCD distortion (rippling) with minimal pressure to the screen.
The iPP is the first one I've had that doesn't go wonky when I press hard on the screen. I spend more time than I should playing a pinball app and for the longest time I thought the screen flash where I press my thumbs for the bumpers was feedback from the game-- but later realized it was just me distorting the LCD/backlight by bending the glass. I don't have that effect with the iPP 9.7. Sample size: 1.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Yebubbleman
Because the answer is self evident. In the UK and other free market economies, the price of a product isn't based on its components, it's based on the value the buyer derives from owning it. In fact, your whole tax system is based on only taxing the value added beyond the cost of the components used. And we don't all get individual pricing, so the price isn't based on the value that one buyer derives from it but is based on the value the largest number of buyers derive from it.

Different buyers value something for different reasons-- some might like the new display, some the pencil, some the improved cameras. Some may just enjoy having the latest models of things and the price is low enough as a fraction of their income, that they can afford to stay abreast of the updates. Steve Jobs, for example, is said to have replaced his Mercedes often enough that he never had to put license plates on them.

Some buyers would actually be willing to pay more than they do, but benefit from the fact that the price is set for the largest number of buyers. In economics, this is called the consumer surplus. For those people, if they break their old iPad and need to replace it, they're perfectly willing to pay the extra price for even the slightest improvement because they already paid less than they would for what they had.

So the answer to your question is rather simple, if unsatisfying: it's worth £100 more because enough people are willing to pay £100 more. If they aren't, the price will come down. Harping on this for this long suggests that people aren't so much uneducated about what the iPad Pro offers, but are trying to convince others to change their determination of value-- which is just silly.

Fair point but we won't know maybe for a full year or sales to see if Apple are gaining or losing with a higher price. Perhaps the fact they know less iPads are being sold they don't care.

As I say £499 with OLED, 4gb ram and 4K is certainly worth that maybe more as of 2016 hence why it's not here due to costs.

Perhaps Apple has over valued the pencil support. I imagine prices will come down as Apple have done this even with top model IOS I believe even iPhone dropped it goes with VAT in the US the ipad is miles cheaper? Is it not £50 less but the rise in question is not VAT.

Perhaps I should not be too harsh as I hope future releases offer better value. If it went up more next year or the year after I wonder what people's view is? In the Uk the banks have interest rates low how is this elsewhere in the world? Europe is not doing good with the Euro so inflation like this is unusual generally prices in the uk are dropping fuel, bus prices, energy prices and wages have just gone up.
[doublepost=1460576824][/doublepost]
I just want to know if the display on the 9.7" iPad Pro is more RELIABLE than the display of the iPad Air 2. I'm on my fourth unit (the previous three all had display issues) also, every iPad Air 2 that I dealt with personally (through friends and family) also had some kind of display issues as well; be it bad backlights or LCD distortion (rippling) with minimal pressure to the screen. The fact that this makes me feel like my iPad Air 2 is an AppleCare ticking time bomb is the only real reason why I am at all tempted by the 9.7" Pro as a replacement. Thankfully the mini 4 has been substantially more reliable in this regard.

Also, I hate to say it, but Apple's marketing for 9.7" iPads is extremely stupid (iPad, iPad 2, iPad third generation aka "The New iPad", iPad fourth generation, iPad Air, iPad Air 2, iPad Pro 9.7") and needlessly confusing. I think I'm going to sell or retire my Air 2 and just wait to see how Apple's near future (in terms of 9.7" iPads) plays out.

Yep the naming is a bit confusing as we could still see an Air 3 without pencil. Now that would be just the ticket with Apple we don't know. iPad mini and Pro are due an update we would see more in the fall or the Pro pushed back to March.

Another question for regulars on here if we have a Pro with the best features well camera wise and screen when will Pro be due an update? But more so Mini as at the moment that's been lurking from the IPad Air 2 event so could we see changes this summer? Has 9.7" turned a premium size? Is mini going to be called Pro?

Please somebody come along and make some sense or speculation on this lol?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.