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970MP - Still Coming?
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I see a few problems with this scenario. First, if Apple announces any type of dual-core Power Mac in the beginning of June (WWDC) and then fails to ship any such systems until September they will have at least one full quarter of very weak sales of the existing Power Mac line. I could see something like that cutting profits by 25 to 50 million dollars in one quarter alone. Thus, a three month lag between announcement and ship seems highly unlikely.mvc said:
As for a twin dual-core 3GHz Power Mac, that would have to be a very expensive system. So, while the crowd might have shouts of joy concerning the performance potential it might turn to stunned silence when Steve says, "at the price of only $4000." I don't know what the price will be, but it would seem very likely that it would have to be notably higher than today's $3k top-end. I suspect that the current price points ($2k to $3k) will be replaced by feature enhanced single dual-core systems running at speeds similar to what were announced yesterday. The $1500 Power Mac will probably be either a single 2GHz/2.3GHz 970FX or one of the rumored single-core 970GX processors.azdude said:
A dual, dual-core Power Mac is a possibility, but like I said, that could be a very expensive system.
My guess for when the dual-core 970MP will be officially announced will be at the Apple Paris Expo (Sept 20-24), with shipments starting soon thereafter.
You might be right on the pricing nd such, although do I get a dual proc for $3000 or do I get a dual-dual that will hold me a lot longer for only a $1000 more. And the price difference gets to be less of an issue when you consider all the options someone might get when getting a new system. (More memory, second disc, display, etc).fpnc said:
So even if it is expensive, it will sell and probably sell well.
Although I think there is some debate about how many processor cores will be in the XBox 2, it will not be using the dual-core 970MP. The most consistent report (AFAIK) is that the XBox 2 will use a three-core PPE processor (PowerPC Processor Element) which is quite different from a 970MP. Thus, you shouldn't try to compare the availability dates of the PPE (XBox) with the dual-core 970MP Power Macs.Opticdraft said:
However, I think it is pretty certain that we'll see dual-core 970MP systems from Apple before the end of the calendar year.
>>Nonsense, if what you are saying were true no one would buy anything but the latest top of the line machine, there is ALWAYS demand for the lower spec machines, cost is always the main purchasing factor.
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Good God-you have a better chance of dating Paris Hilton than getting a souped-up 970 this year;
The original poster is right-if Steve announced a new 970MP G5 in a month or so-for the Fall-you just KNOW that the already poor sales of PMs would grind to a near halt-look how many here have announced with pride that they bought a G5 6 months or a year ago-and would gladly buy the new 970...Apple people ARE JUST THE TYPE to in fact, NOT buy the current machines if a new one was on the horizon-and Steve knows this-look at all the pissing and moaning about these 'updates'-you can bet sales of existing product would crash.
but you are welcome to dream on...
maybe next year early...
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Good God-you have a better chance of dating Paris Hilton than getting a souped-up 970 this year;
The original poster is right-if Steve announced a new 970MP G5 in a month or so-for the Fall-you just KNOW that the already poor sales of PMs would grind to a near halt-look how many here have announced with pride that they bought a G5 6 months or a year ago-and would gladly buy the new 970...Apple people ARE JUST THE TYPE to in fact, NOT buy the current machines if a new one was on the horizon-and Steve knows this-look at all the pissing and moaning about these 'updates'-you can bet sales of existing product would crash.
but you are welcome to dream on...
maybe next year early...
IBM already doing dual core..sort of
"Prices start at $5,649 for a 2.2GHz dual core system equipped with an 80GB Serial ATA drive, an Nvidia Quadro FX14000, and a DVD/CD-RW. A 275 Opteron has a list price of $2,699.*"
IBM is putting this out in two months time. Now all naive people please look at those numbers. Think about adding another proc. in there and bump it up to 3ghz.. i bet you could some serous web browsing with that biotch...and for..say &6000 or $8000, how could anyone say no.
"Prices start at $5,649 for a 2.2GHz dual core system equipped with an 80GB Serial ATA drive, an Nvidia Quadro FX14000, and a DVD/CD-RW. A 275 Opteron has a list price of $2,699.*"
IBM is putting this out in two months time. Now all naive people please look at those numbers. Think about adding another proc. in there and bump it up to 3ghz.. i bet you could some serous web browsing with that biotch...and for..say &6000 or $8000, how could anyone say no.
As for an above $3k system selling well, I think that is debatable. Remember, Apple has had a dual-processor "advantage" for many years and that hasn't resulted in great sales for the Power Mac line (even for the dual G5s). Thus, I think the "big" market for Apple will remain in the sub-three thousand dollar range and that probably means single dual-core configurations (initially). Eventually, twin dual-core will probably become a requirement (from Apple) as the prices for the dual-core Pentium and Athlon systems reach down into the mainstream $1k range. When that happens Apple will have to offer single dual-core across their entire desktop line and thus after that point dual-processor 970MP Power Mac (twin dual core) will probably become the standard.Bear said:
Basically, I think we'll see a repeat of the transition that happened when Apple went to dual-core G4s. So this is what I see in Apple's mainstream lineup:
Second half 2005: Apple introduces single processor, dual-core 970MP Power Mac systems. Remaining desktop line stays single-processor, single core. Power Macs get PCI Express.
Mid 2006: Apple introduces twin, dual-core at the high end of the Power Mac line (prices may hover around $3k).
Late 2006/Early 2007: Apple moves dual-core across entire desktop product line (except perhaps on the Mac mini). Twin dual-core Power Macs begin to move into the mainstream ($2k to $3k price points). The Mac OS begins the real transition to a full 64-bit implementation (both GUI and memory space).
Beyond early 2007, who really knows? PPE/Cell? Quad-core? Macintosh and iPod/consumer businesses split into separate companies?
IBM already doing dual core..sort of
"Prices start at $5,649 for a 2.2GHz dual core system equipped with an 80GB Serial ATA drive, an Nvidia Quadro FX14000, and a DVD/CD-RW. A 275 Opteron has a list price of $2,699.*"
IBM is putting this out in two months time. Now all naive people please look at those numbers. Think about adding another proc. in there and bump it up to 3ghz.. i bet you could some serous web browsing with that biotch...and for..say &6000 or $8000, how could anyone say no.
"Prices start at $5,649 for a 2.2GHz dual core system equipped with an 80GB Serial ATA drive, an Nvidia Quadro FX14000, and a DVD/CD-RW. A 275 Opteron has a list price of $2,699.*"
IBM is putting this out in two months time. Now all naive people please look at those numbers. Think about adding another proc. in there and bump it up to 3ghz.. i bet you could some serous web browsing with that biotch...and for..say &6000 or $8000, how could anyone say no.
Interesting reading as always. IBM must still be having a higher than anticipated failure rate in the new chip. As has been pointed out, the infrastructure for a quad system is already in place. And if it is not 2 dual cores, then it would probably be out. There does not seem to be any issues getting the current chip in quantities. Besides, if Apple was going to go with quad processors, there would be different types of 'bread crumbs in the forrest'; totally different case, motherboard, bus structure, etc.
One guy said Apple would take a big hit in sales, if they announced the dual core too soon before they could deliver them. I think that is essentially correct. However right now, the Powermac is not what is 'paying the bills'. (Fedex just arrived with Tiger!!). Anyway, I doubt if a 33% drop in PM sales would be noticeable on the bottom-line. But, I do not think you want to try and win converts and have the business headlines reading, "Apple unable to deliver products". Afterall, those very headlines have been seen recently.
Even with all of the well thoughtout strategic scenarios discussed here, I think the best evidence for determining an accurate launch date will come from an IBM insider who can say that their chip failure rate is finally under control.
PM G5 (2) 2.0, 4.5GB, 160G/250G, LaCie 1TB, (2) 23" Apple, ATI 9800 256MB
PB G4 1.5, 17", 2GB, LaCie 500GB, 23" Apple, Superdrive
MacMini 1.43, 80GB, 1GB, Superdrive
HP (2) Xeon 2.6GB, 2GB, (3) 146GB SCSI, (2) Dell 24"
One guy said Apple would take a big hit in sales, if they announced the dual core too soon before they could deliver them. I think that is essentially correct. However right now, the Powermac is not what is 'paying the bills'. (Fedex just arrived with Tiger!!). Anyway, I doubt if a 33% drop in PM sales would be noticeable on the bottom-line. But, I do not think you want to try and win converts and have the business headlines reading, "Apple unable to deliver products". Afterall, those very headlines have been seen recently.
Even with all of the well thoughtout strategic scenarios discussed here, I think the best evidence for determining an accurate launch date will come from an IBM insider who can say that their chip failure rate is finally under control.
PM G5 (2) 2.0, 4.5GB, 160G/250G, LaCie 1TB, (2) 23" Apple, ATI 9800 256MB
PB G4 1.5, 17", 2GB, LaCie 500GB, 23" Apple, Superdrive
MacMini 1.43, 80GB, 1GB, Superdrive
HP (2) Xeon 2.6GB, 2GB, (3) 146GB SCSI, (2) Dell 24"
I wonder if it might be an inability to run at higher clock speeds that is holding up the dual-core 970MPs. Consider the possibility that they currently top out at 2.0 or 2.2GHz, that really wouldn't help since Apple is already shipping significantly faster dual-processor systems.Demoman said:
As far as a 33% drop in Power Mac sales, that would affect Apple's bottom line. Consider that they sold over 140K Power Macs last quarter you'd be talking a reduction of 45k units. And a 33% decrease in Power Mac sales could result in an over $100M reduction in revenue. I'd estimate that on the basis of Apple's stated margins and the average selling price of the Power Mac ($2269 per the Q2 report) that a 33% sales decline would represent an approximate $23M drop in margin dollars. And I think those lost margin dollars would pretty much fall to bottom-line profits. I don't think Apple would "flush" almost $23M down the drain just so that Steve Jobs could announce early at WWDC.
Oh, I don't claim that the margin/profit numbers above are accurate (or even properly presented), but I do know that we'd be talking about many millions of dollars in lost margins.
Of course they will be staying with IBM. The only question might be how much longer Apple will be using the Freescale/Motorola chips like the G4. In the latter case, I'd guess maybe another year to eighteen months.dotdotdot said:
Raven VII said:
The fastest AMD processor runs at 2.6 Ghz, their fastest dual-core processor runs at 2.2 Ghz.
The fastest Pentium runs at 3.8 Ghz, the fastest dual-core Pentium runs at 3.2 Ghz.
The fastest PPC 970FX runs at 2.7 Ghz, the fastest dual-core PPC 970MP will run at 3 Ghz (because Steve promised 3 Ghz already 22 months ago).
fpnc said:
i think freescale will play an important roll with apple for a long time to come. especialy witht he release of the e600 core and its duel core chip based on it and the upcomming e700 core (still a little ways to go) being 32/64 bit. the G4 still has its place. it requires wayyyyyyy less power to operate than any G5. and so far as far as power pc goes freescale is the only one that has a dual core chip that has been anounced and they have for a few months now
mvc said:
My hope is that your prediction is correct. Some really bright news coming out of this day. I'm holding off on a special deal that will expire just after WWDC. The reason why this would seem possible, is that Steve likes to make the big announcement personally. This would be a big announcement, something to put us ahead of the PC people.
manu chao said:The fastest AMD processor runs at 2.6 Ghz, their fastest dual-core processor runs at 2.2 Ghz.
The fastest Pentium runs at 3.8 Ghz, the fastest dual-core Pentium runs at 3.2 Ghz.
The fastest PPC 970FX runs at 2.7 Ghz, the fastest dual-core PPC 970MP will run at 3 Ghz (because Steve promised 3 Ghz already 22 months ago).
if ibm has a single core at 2.7Ghz, you cannot say that a dual core will be 3Ghz
It's hard to know how long Apple will continue to use Freescale processors. Certainly they will use the single-core MPC7448 (that's the first e600 product to be released). I'm hoping that we see the MPC7448 pretty soon (before end of summer), but frankly that chip may top out at something just over 2GHz and that won't be a viable product for very long. It could, however, be used in future Mac minis until perhaps the end of 2006.poundsmack said:
IMO, the dual-core e600s may never appear in a Mac product. Rumors suggest that they won't sample until the end of the year and they are being targeted almost exclusively at embedded products. In fact they aren't considered G4s while the MPC7448 is (perhaps the last "G4"). It's true that the dual-core e600 processors look pretty impressive, but by the time they ship Apple should be on the verge of getting 65nm products from IBM. And before the end of this year or certainly by early 2006 dual-core 970MP and single-core 970GX processors should be available in mass quantity from IBM.
Some even believe that IBM's multi-core PPE processors will be used in PowerBooks and high-end Power Macs by next year (PPE stands for PowerPC Processing Element, that's the same architecture that will be used in Microsoft's soon to be introduced XBox 2).
IMO, it's not very likely that we will see dual-core 970MPs before this fall. Expect the annoucement at the late September Apple Expo in Paris.wdlove said:
Just switching from the other system I am not sure I get what the difference will mean in the following. How will a single dual core processor be better than the current single core dual processor G5?
powermacs have a long time before getting updated agian but whne they do im think the update should be amazing
I think the word you were looking for was "sarcastic". There's nothing ironic about your statement, to me, at least.manu chao said:
Besides, Steve didn't promise a DC 3 GHz G5. The 3 GHz thing is beating a dead horse, to say the least. I've never seen so much fuss over a 10% clock increase on a CPU. Given all the other factors that impact system performance, who cares.