A brit buying an air in New York

[nazuk]

I'm not bitter, it's a fact: you're avoiding paying UK VAT that is legally payable, since you're importing a VAT-rated item into the UK.

Now, there are lots of worthwhile arguments to be had about the UK tax system, VAT and duty, and the somewhat spurious USD to GBP conversion rate applied by many companies, that makes purchasing high value items in the US such an attractive proposition. I don't deny any of that.

However, the fact remains that under the law as it currently stands, VAT was payable and you didn't declare it. Or maybe you did, but your original post strongly implies that you didn't.

Cheers

Jim

I bet you are the type to write into the Daily Mail. I think you should stick to your 'location'. Anyway, I hope something cheers you up, you need it.

/me enjoying my tax free purchases to pi@@ off people like you and all Daily Mail readers!

 

[mike.t]

However, the fact remains that under the law as it currently stands, VAT was payable and you didn't declare it. Or maybe you did, but your original post strongly implies that you didn't.

Cheers

Jim

and i plan to do exactly the same.

 

[archipellago]

I bet you are the type to write into the Daily Mail. I think you should stick to your 'location'. Anyway, I hope something cheers you up, you need it.

/me enjoying my tax free purchases to pi@@ off people like you and all Daily Mail readers!

he's pointing out that you're breaking the law...no more, no less.

You want to live like that then it's up to you.

What goes around comes around.

 

[Jim Campbell]

Again: I am not arguing the rights or wrongs of the UK taxation system, and I am certainly not defending some of the outrageous $:£ conversions that some companies do (Wacom being the worst offenders, who seem to simply swap the pound and dollar signs on their products) that give rise to the sort of price disparity that makes the idea of purchasing a product overseas attractive in the first place.

I am noting that walking through the "Nothing to Declare" channel in possession of a brand new laptop purchased in the US is avoiding payment of UK VAT and is a criminal offence. I'm sorry if that offends you, but it's still a fact.

Cheers

Jim

 

[molala]

As someone said, £ is just option-3.
And € is just shift-option-2.

And I wouldn't bother with a UK power adapter. Just get a figure-8 lead, most stereos/mini-hifis have this already.

 

[KPOM]

I am noting that walking through the "Nothing to Declare" channel in possession of a brand new laptop purchased in the US is avoiding payment of UK VAT and is a criminal offence. I'm sorry if that offends you, but it's still a fact.

What is the personal allowance? Going the other way, Americans get to bring in about $800 tax free from overseas.

 

[imranius]

amazon.com/apple

I'd suggest buying it from amazon, save 7-8% in sales tax , which is close to $100

 

[KPOM]

I'd suggest buying it from amazon, save 7-8% in sales tax , which is close to $100

Of course, you're supposed to pay that, too. Anyway, New York is forcing many online retailers to collect sales tax.

 

[Jim Campbell]

What is the personal allowance?

On VAT? Nothing -- it's not like Excise Duty, payable on booze and fags, where you get an allowance (but only coming back from other EU countries). To the best of my knowledge, you need to declare the item and pay VAT at the full UK rate (17.5%, rising to 20% in January 2011) on the entire sterling value of the purchase.

Again: I make no argument on the rights and wrongs of this situation, but merely note that this is the case under UK law as it currently stands.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[molala]

Don't you get a certain allowance up to a certain amount that you can claim VAT-free when returning to the UK?

I don't really see why it's OK to buy from Dixons at the airport VAT-free but not ok come back with a laptop from the US without paying VAT. I know the law is the law, but it just doesn't make sense in this case.

 

[Jim Campbell]

I don't really see why it's OK to buy from Dixons at the airport VAT-free but not ok come back with a laptop from the US without paying VAT.

I presume the assumption is that you will be taking the laptop out of the UK. If a retailer participates in the (voluntary) Retail Export Scheme, then the customer is supposed to be able to claim back the VAT on arrival in their destination country. It stands to reason that Dixons either has an arrangement with HMRC whereby they account for the VAT directly, or they may simply discount the product by 17.5% and just say that you're not paying the VAT (which you're not -- they're paying it for you).

Cheers

Jim

 

[gwsat]

Of course, you're supposed to pay that, too. Anyway, New York is forcing many online retailers to collect sales tax.

A state can "force" an Internet seller to remit sales tax on an interstate transaction only if the online seller has a physical presence in the state. Otherwise, there is nothing the state can do to the out of state seller to force it to collect and remit sales taxes. The buyer, though, owes a use tax to his home state equal its sales tax. As a practical matter the state can't collect it from the buyer, either, because buyers characteristically don't report such transactions. The bottom line is that states are mostly SOL when it comes to collecting taxes on interstate Internet transactions.

 

[scenemissing]

Used to work at one of the DC area stores. It was crazy how many international travelers would do this - some would leave the empty box with us to throw out! Had more than one person tell me it was cheaper to fly to DC ,get the Mac, and fly back vs paying the crappy Apple international markup +VAT.

 

[Aboo]

A state can "force" an Internet seller to remit sales tax on an interstate transaction only if the online seller has a physical presence in the state. Otherwise, there is nothing the state can do to the out of state seller to force it to collect and remit sales taxes. The buyer, though, owes a use tax to his home state equal its sales tax. As a practical matter the state can't collect it from the buyer, either, because buyers characteristically don't report such transactions. The bottom line is that states are mostly SOL when it comes to collecting taxes on interstate Internet transactions.

Not the case in NY, per se:

http://www.newrules.org/retail/rule...fairness/internet-sales-tax-fairness-new-york

NY requires an internet retailer to collect sales tax on items shipped to NY even if they dont have operations there, so long as they have marketplace sellers from NY Sneaky sneaky....

 

[jahman]

On VAT? Nothing -- it's not like Excise Duty, payable on booze and fags, where you get an allowance (but only coming back from other EU countries). To the best of my knowledge, you need to declare the item and pay VAT at the full UK rate (17.5%, rising to 20% in January 2011) on the entire sterling value of the purchase.

Again: I make no argument on the rights and wrongs of this situation, but merely note that this is the case under UK law as it currently stands.

Cheers!

Jim

Hi Jim,

You're quite right about the avoidance of VAT. Anyone doing this is taking a risk that they are searched and found to be smuggling in goods. If you are, you will become a marked man as far as customs is concerned and will likely find yourself experiencing special attention for life even after suffering whatever sanctions are imposed for the offence.

However, you are quite wrong about there not being an allowance. Everyone is entitled to bring back £390 worth of goods tax free to cover souvenirs, etc. See here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/arriving/arrivingnoneu.htm Clearly, however, that's nowhere near enough to cover the cost of a Mac!

If you want to legitimately avoid the cost of VAT on computer purchases, you can always set up in business, reclaim the VAT on such purchases and save corporation tax by depreciating the asset value over three years as I do. Makes the cost of even Apple stuff seem quite reasonable.

Cheers,

jahman

 

[gwsat]

Not the case in NY, per se:

http://www.newrules.org/retail/rule...fairness/internet-sales-tax-fairness-new-york

NY requires an internet retailer to collect sales tax on items shipped to NY even if they dont have operations there, so long as they have marketplace sellers from NY Sneaky sneaky....

New York's problem is how to enforce the collection of sales taxes while let's say Amazon is sitting in its headquarters in Seattle and simply refuses to collect New York sales taxes from its online customers and refuses to remit them to the state of New York. As a practical matter, New York would have to sue Amazon either in the state courts in Washington or attempt to sue in the federal court in New York, in which case the court would have to reexamine whether New York's attempt to tax an interstate transaction violated the commerce clause of the US constitution. The feds could ultimately say that New York can tax the non resident seller for a transaction which has utterly no contact with New York, other than the residence of the buyer, but I doubt it. There are a lot of other ways it could go, too, so only time will tell how it might all play out. I will say, though, it's a federal question and the federal courts will almost certainly have the last word.

 

[KPOM]

New York's problem is how to enforce the collection of sales taxes while let's say Amazon is sitting in its headquarters in Seattle and simply refuses to collect New York sales taxes from its online customers and refuses to remit them to the state of New York. As a practical matter, New York would have to sue Amazon either in the state courts in Washington or attempt to sue in the federal court in New York, in which case the court would have to reexamine whether New York's attempt to tax an interstate transaction violated the commerce clause of the US constitution. The feds could ultimately say that New York can tax the non resident seller for a transaction which has utterly no contact with New York, other than the residence of the buyer, but I doubt it. There are a lot of other ways it could go, too, so only time will tell how it might all play out. I will say, though, it's a federal question and the federal courts will almost certainly have the last word.

Whether states can impose a retailer's tax on the seller on interstate transactions is a federal issue (as it affects interstate commerce), and until recently there was a federal moratorium on sales tax on interstate online transactions (ostensibly to promote commerce by reducing the administrative burden on online businesses). That said, any state is within its rights to impose a use tax on its residents, and many states include a line on their income tax returns for people to self-report out of state transactions. Self-reporting rates are pretty low (not surprisingly), so states like New York and Colorado have been trying to force as many online retailers as possible to collect sales tax by claiming that online retailers have "nexus" in their states through warehouses, distribution centers, and "agents" such as online partners resident in that state.

 

[Aboo]

New York's problem is how to enforce the collection of sales taxes while let's say Amazon is sitting in its headquarters in Seattle and simply refuses to collect New York sales taxes from its online customers and refuses to remit them to the state of New York. As a practical matter, New York would have to sue Amazon either in the state courts in Washington or attempt to sue in the federal court in New York, in which case the court would have to reexamine whether New York's attempt to tax an interstate transaction violated the commerce clause of the US constitution. The feds could ultimately say that New York can tax the non resident seller for a transaction which has utterly no contact with New York, other than the residence of the buyer, but I doubt it. There are a lot of other ways it could go, too, so only time will tell how it might all play out. I will say, though, it's a federal question and the federal courts will almost certainly have the last word.

I agree with you - but as it stands now, NY residents are still being charged NY sales tax when shopping at larger internet etailers like Buy.com, Amazon.com, etc.

 

[gwsat]

Whether states can impose a retailer's tax on the seller on interstate transactions is a federal issue (as it affects interstate commerce), and until recently there was a federal moratorium on sales tax on interstate online transactions (ostensibly to promote commerce by reducing the administrative burden on online businesses). That said, any state is within its rights to impose a use tax on its residents, and many states include a line on their income tax returns for people to self-report out of state transactions. Self-reporting rates are pretty low (not surprisingly), so states like New York and Colorado have been trying to force as many online retailers as possible to collect sales tax by claiming that online retailers have "nexus" in their states through warehouses, distribution centers, and "agents" such as online partners resident in that state.

I believe most if not all states have a use tax that residents are technically obliged to pay on internet purchases but that is entirely different from trying to require an internet retailer with no connection to the state to collect and remit sales taxes. I agree that if an interstate retailer has any sort of an in state brick and mortar presence, even a warehouse, the state's chances of successfully imposing the obligation to collect and remit sales taxes improve significantly.

 

[weckart]

On VAT? Nothing -- it's not like Excise Duty, payable on booze and fags, where you get an allowance (but only coming back from other EU countries). To the best of my knowledge, you need to declare the item and pay VAT at the full UK rate (17.5%, rising to 20% in January 2011) on the entire sterling value of the purchase.

Again: I make no argument on the rights and wrongs of this situation, but merely note that this is the case under UK law as it currently stands.

Cheers!

Jim

Not strictly accurate. No VAT is levied on imports of £18 or less. The £18 would also include the cost of importation, however, i.e. p&p. Both Play.com and Amazon make use of this, Play's being based in Jersey and Amazon's passing small sales wherever possible to its Jersey affiliate Indigostarfish.

Don't you get a certain allowance up to a certain amount that you can claim VAT-free when returning to the UK?

I don't really see why it's OK to buy from Dixons at the airport VAT-free but not ok come back with a laptop from the US without paying VAT. I know the law is the law, but it just doesn't make sense in this case.

Dixons swallows the VAT. Can only be a loss leader on Apple sales, but that's Dixon's business. Note that Dixons can recoup the losses by bumping up the price of the non-Apple gear it sells, so that even after the VAT deduction it might still be more expensive than ordering online.

Bestbuy is allowing 15% Quidco on sales for this weekend only (15.5% with Topcashback). This brings the prices of the MBAs down to almost VAT free prices. The only one available in the 11" size is the base model with 128GB. The rules for Quidco is that it must be shipped and not reserve and collect. However £870 sounds better than £999 if you are in the market for that model with 2GB of RAM.

 

[s2dio]

Or buy it in the US store for £855 including 7% US Sales Tax

.... £144 total saving, saving a further £83.83 on top of your saving.

The Pound sign is no big deal, just change it in the Language Preference pane, or use the keyboard shortcut described above.

EVERY single Macbook (and iBook) I have ever bought have ALL been bought from the States, and flown over in my suitcase!

I have saved thousands by now.

Use a UK adapter, and your all set.

Anyone that thinks there's issues, is just scaremongering!

PS: I have even bought two separate Macmini's, and Hard Drives (when they were expensive here) - and much more.

did you take the boxes with you and put them in the luggage or thrown them away after purchase?

I've done this many times, beginning with a 1.67GHz PowerBook I lugged across the pond a few weeks before the first MacBook Pros appeared.

All you need to do is ship yourself the empty box. I'd highly recommend the Worldwide Power Adapter kit as well.

Aside from the dwelt-upon keyboard issues, the only challenge you'll face is selling the computer on from within the UK. I've always listed mine on eBay or elsewhere when I knew I was making a trip, mailed the box to myself in the States, and shipped it on from wherever I landed.

All in all, a good way to beat the UK Apple surcharge. Cheers!

do x-rays at the airport actually see that there is an APPLE BOX in your luggage? I mean, it could be any other box.. a box of chocolate, or just a box where you carry your paper documents for additional safety.

I would like to clarify, is it a good solution to take a laptop in the bag with you and put the box in the luggage with clothes, shoes etc etc? And put some documents in the box to make it look like you just need the box to store documents.

 

[Jim Campbell]

However, you are quite wrong about there not being an allowance. Everyone is entitled to bring back £390 worth of goods tax free to cover souvenirs, etc. See here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/arriving/arrivingnoneu.htm Clearly, however, that's nowhere near enough to cover the cost of a Mac!

Interesting. My mistake, and thank you for the info. Any day which you finish better informed than you started was worth getting out of bed for, IMO!

Cheers

Jim

 

[gnasher729]

However, you are quite wrong about there not being an allowance. Everyone is entitled to bring back £390 worth of goods tax free to cover souvenirs, etc. See here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/arriving/arrivingnoneu.htm Clearly, however, that's nowhere near enough to cover the cost of a Mac!

Small addition. From a UK gov website: "The Import VAT percentage rate is applied to the total value of the goods. In the case of goods brought in this is the sterling equivalent of the price paid abroad, as shown on the receipt. "

So the cheapest iPad selling for £429 in the UK has a "value" according to this rule of the $499 on the receipt converted to British pound = £313 or so and therefore tax free.

 

[Jim Campbell]

So the cheapest iPad selling for £429 in the UK has a "value" according to this rule of the $499 on the receipt converted to British pound = £313 or so and therefore tax free.

Nicely spotted!

Cheers

Jim