A Flash Based 4GB iPod mini?

[podfuture]

If Apple is indeed going to do this, then do it right - have it ready to go in order to capitalize on Xmas sales.

Exactly- Apple goes all out for Christmas. Looks like about half the people that own iPods actually have two!. What else would make people buy a third iPod- a super cool Flash Mini!!

So to be ready for Christmas and get the tail end of Back-To-School Apple has to announce in a matter of days.

Sept 6 to be exact (from talk on the street).

 

[sunwarrior]

Flash memory is slow compare to harddisk.

 

[PlaceofDis]

interesting news indeed. i am looking forward to seeing what apple does with this.... they keep innovating, which is why the iPod is still on top

 

[~Shard~]

Flash memory is slow compare to harddisk.

Since that statement is completely wrong, I'll assume you are joking. The typical access time for a Flash based SSD is about 35 - 100 microseconds, whereas that of a rotating disk is around 5,000 - 10,000 microseconds. That makes a Flash-based SSD approximately 100 times faster than a rotating disk.

 

[PlaceofDis]

Since that statement is completely wrong, I'll assume you are joking. The typical access time for a Flash based SSD is about 35 - 100 microseconds, whereas that of a rotating disk is around 5,000 - 10,000 microseconds. That makes a Flash-based SSD approximately 100 times faster than a rotating disk.

and even if it was slower (not that it is) it would be negligible to a the average person to notice. the benefit of having a more dependable form of disk is what matters here. Flash memory will outlast Hard Drive based simply because there are no moving parts, and it conserves more battery life too.

 

[NicP]

Since that statement is completely wrong, I'll assume you are joking. The typical access time for a Flash based SSD is about 35 - 100 microseconds, whereas that of a rotating disk is around 5,000 - 10,000 microseconds. That makes a Flash-based SSD approximately 100 times faster than a rotating disk.

access time is faster but transfer time is slower

of course for something like an mp3 player it really dosent matter

 

[atakordie]

What is the component for the internal iPod cache? I always assumed it was a flashed-based component. Maybe 32 MB or so. Recently with the video iPod rumors, I have been wondering how Apple would make a video-pod work, if they in fact are working on it. 32 MB would be too small of a cache for such a greedy thing as video. Just thoughts, but would it be anywhere reasonable for a cache as large as 4 GB?? It would be expensive.

 

[madmaxmedia]

The main negative (for those who asked) is cost, flash memory is more expensive than a small hard drive (at least in the 2 to 4+ GB range.)

EDIT- Ahhh, this is interesting-

“The report said iSuppli believes that Samsung has offered to match prices from the HDD suppliers, even though current microdrive prices are about half the cost of the equivalent flash density,” the EE Times reports. “Samsung would still reap profits, even at aggressive pricing levels, Kim said, adding that ‘sewing up the marquee iPod memory business is well worth the reduction in margins’ for Samsung.”

This would give a lot of creedence to the move, and give Apple a significant advantage over the other music player makers. I think they would be able to have a thinner, smaller player with more battery life and better sound quality (Shuffle has it for reasons I won't go into here), at the same price as the current Mini. Sweet!

 

[nagromme]

This makes MUCH more sense than a 4 GB (or even 2 GB) shuffle, since a screen becomes more important with a larger collection.

I predict the shuffle stays at 1 GB, and the Mini comes in at 2 and/or 4 using flash. (When? Don't ask me. With color screens? Maybe not: that could be just for a bigger 6-10 GB HD Mini, to keep the flash Minis cheaper. Or maybe color Minis have to wait for next year.)

Flash Minis (maybe thinner?) would be the flash player I always expected Apple would wait and make--only instead they entered the market earlier with the shuffle. But as flash prices drop, higher-capacity iPods using flash RAM is inevitable.

I would have thought it would take longer for prices to drop enough, so a flash Mini would be a little further away... but maybe with a big enough order it's possible.

 

[corywoolf]

bummer, found this link on digg but guess the news already is out.

http://www4.shopping.com/xPF-Apple_iPod_Shuffle_4_GB

looks as though it has a screen. this picture isn't of the new one I am guessing. Read the reviews... how is there already reviews?

 

[~loserman~]

naw that's not the only barrier keeping flash out of laptops/desktops. flash memory, both NOR and NAND have only a certain number of write/erase cycles before wear takes it's toll on the insulating oxide layer found in flash mem

Hmmm
I thought the number of read write cycles for flash memory was much higher than hardrives

 

[skullsplitter]

Battery life

The massive battery life on the shuffle if due to no screen and no HD right? But it's battery must also be much smaller than a mini's so depending on how much power the screen sucks this thing could run for .......? ages? Lets hope new colour....orange, maybe yellow.

 

[~Shard~]

and even if it was slower (not that it is) it would be negligible to a the average person to notice. the benefit of having a more dependable form of disk is what matters here. Flash memory will outlast Hard Drive based simply because there are no moving parts, and it conserves more battery life too.

Absolutely right. Flash definitely has many advantages over HDDs.

access time is faster but transfer time is slower

of course for something like an mp3 player it really dosent matter

I assumed we were talking access time, as that's essentially all that matters - as you say, txfer time doesn't really matter when it comes to something like an MP3 player.

 

[~Shard~]

The massive battery life on the shuffle if due to no screen and no HD right? But it's battery must also be much smaller than a mini's so depending on how much power the screen sucks this thing could run for .......? ages? Lets hope new colour....orange, maybe yellow.

Yep - or, as I mentioned previously, just pipe some of that excess power to a color screen.

 

[nsjoker]

pshh flash... bring on holographic memory apple

 

[mccoma]

well, if Samsung is willing...

might as well do a flash based 4gig color Mini, remove the 512mb shuffle, and drop the 1gig shuffle into the sub-$100 region. That will boost some Christmas sales.

The only problem with this is the statement that Samsung switch manufacturing from DRAM production to do this. That will make memory prices go up. Might want to buy your memory soon.

 

[Mechcozmo]

Since that statement is completely wrong, I'll assume you are joking. The typical access time for a Flash based SSD is about 35 - 100 microseconds, whereas that of a rotating disk is around 5,000 - 10,000 microseconds. That makes a Flash-based SSD approximately 100 times faster than a rotating disk.

All very true, but my 1G iPod transfered music a lot faster than my 512MB Shuffle.

Could it be FireWire vs. USB 2.0? Maybe... but it takes such a long time that I don't bother much anymore with transfering files to the Shuffle. Just an occasional song swapping out.

 

[nagromme]

Yes, Firewire (even FW 400) is faster than USB2 for all but the briefest transfers. Plus, the ports on keyboards tend to be USB1.1, and if you attach a Shuffle that way, you don't even get full USB2 speed.

 

[usarioclave]

solid-state iBooks & powerbooks?

This is off-topic, but if flash and small perpendicular drives have performance that is almost as good as a normal 2.5" drive, at what point will they become main storage for laptops?

Imagine what you could do to a laptop form factor if you could remove the hard drive and the CD/DVD. You could have a VAIO, but smaller...basically a screen, a keyboard, and a power adapter.

Heck, I use my CD maybe a few times a month. I'd much rather have an external optical drive and a really thin iBook.

 

[oskar]

I think if the iPod mini were lighter, it would make it feel rather cheap. I don't think Apple will be changing the form in some time either. Unless their iPod accesories are ready...

 

[freiheit]

Too many form factors spoil the soup... or something. Imagine Apple making 4 different iPod form factors at one time: Shuffle, Flash Mini, Mini and "regular". Imagine the trouble for third parties trying to make docks to fit all those form factors. Maybe Apple doesn't care since they don't make iPod docks anymore, but it seems excessive especially when the idea behind business is to reduce costs in order to increase profits.

I'd be interested in a flash-based iPod Mini. Anytime I'm going to be carrying something around on my belt or in my cargo pockets I like to be sure the player won't skip or scratch the disk -- that's why I don't carry a Discman anymore.

 

[JD24]

Too many form factors spoil the soup... or something. Imagine Apple making 4 different iPod form factors at one time: Shuffle, Flash Mini, Mini and "regular". Imagine the trouble for third parties trying to make docks to fit all those form factors

I agree with that.

I also don't think the battery life will increase more than 50% percent.

My wishes:

- 6GB Ipod MINI (FLASH) / i guess we'll only see 4GB
- same iPod MINI case shell (i like it a lot)
- please no plastic front case (like regular ipod)
- as soon as possible
- EDIT: 199,- EURO


I don't need color display but a OLED display would be
awesome. Something like the new SONY FLASH based player.

Regards, JD

 

[lilrabbit129]

I don't think that the mini would get much lighter. One of the "little touches" that iPods have are that they FEEL substantial. Neither the original iPods or the mini have ever felt "cheap". I think apple would rather add functionality, or battery power to the mini than make it lighter.

This is one of the reasons I don't like the Shuffle. It just does not feel as substantial as any ipod. It feels cheap. I understand that the shuffle is meant to be as light as possible, but the mini is more of the middle ground between the big "bring everything AND the kitchen sink" 4g iPods and the "super light duty, feather weight, one playlist or so at a time" Shuffle.

 

[GilGrissom]

Yes, Firewire (even FW 400) is faster than USB2 for all but the briefest transfers. Plus, the ports on keyboards tend to be USB1.1, and if you attach a Shuffle that way, you don't even get full USB2 speed.

Ah right, thanks for that. You've taught me something! Its confusing on paper, as FW 400 is said to be 400Mbps and USB 2.0 480Mbps. But I guess thats not everything and practicalities and other technical bits and bobs come into it!

 

[GilGrissom]

Hmmm, with all this hype and increase over flash-based memory I think it is perhaps getting a little too close to iPod mini terrain. I'm not sure. Yes Apple could use these 4Gb modules in the minis over the hard drives, but that would not leave much for shuffle improvements, especially with past rumors and current strange indications from some of your previous posts about a 4Gb shufle. I think maybe the shuffle will get the 4Gb mini storage level, and the mini will either go higher on flash (if it can) or go higher on a hard drive (if that is also possible!), possbly decreasing the gap between mini and classic ipod. This will leave the classic ipod to increase its capacity much more, but thats another topic.

Ofcourse Apple could release 4Gb shuffles with 4Gb/6Gb minis, both with flash-based memory, as long as the shuffle doesn't get a screen. If the shuffle gets a screen and is going high capacity flash, the mini needs something new, bigger hard drive perhaps, to get it away from the shuffle. I'm not sure which one is better or more preferred!
You guys know more than me.

I would love to see even cheaper shuffles. If they do drop the 512 shuffle I'm gonna try and pick myself up one cheap, or wait for the 1Gb shuffle to drop down to at least the 512Mb price point.

Maybe Apple doesn't care since they don't make iPod docks anymore

Really? I keep learning today!

This makes MUCH more sense than a 4 GB (or even 2 GB) shuffle, since a screen becomes more important with a larger collection.

I predict the shuffle stays at 1 GB, and the Mini comes in at 2 and/or 4 using flash.

Yes, I think thats partly what I'm trying to say. Its all a bit confusing!
I hope the mini doesnt drop tp 2Gb!