A Flash Based 4GB iPod mini?

[shadowmoses]

I'd personally love to see a colour ipod mini with at least 10gb....

4Gb shuffles would only do if they had a nice screen otherwise pointless 4gb of random music would be insane...

Anyway's i am looking forward to the Paris expo to see what steve has up his sleeve,

SHadOW

 

[mrgreen4242]

I'd personally love to see a colour ipod mini with at least 10gb....

4Gb shuffles would only do if they had a nice screen otherwise pointless 4gb of random music would be insane...

Anyway's i am looking forward to the Paris expo to see what steve has up his sleeve,

SHadOW

Would you really want a color screen on your mini? I mean, it's to small to be really useful for anything (you could argue the same for the iPod photo line, and the mini is even smaller), and all it would do is suck up battery life. I agree that a higher resolution and/or brighter contrast would be nice, but if you want all the bells and whistles why not stick with a full size iPod and leave the mini to just being the best MP3 player on the market?

 

[podfuture]

Sources? Did i missed something here?

Non-quotable sources. But I'm on the ground with it. People in my business need to be ready.

No I haven't seen one. But I know that VPs and up for big US retailers have seen these and had a bit of playtime.

If it is not Sept 6 then this is going to trip up some folks in retail.

 

[sushi]

Why use a hard drive in a mini when you can use flash instead. 2 to 3 times the battery life anyone?
Plus no moving parts to break?

Exactly.

iPod mini that:
- is lighter
- has no moving parts
- is more duarable
- has longer battery life.

I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Sushi

 

[kainjow]

Flash is the future, hdds will be dead as soon as Flash prices fall

 

[xyian]

All over the spectrum now...

Wouldn't this move technically make it a iPod Shuffle? I mean, yes, it has a screen and that's different but the flash base makes it in the same group as the shuffle. I may have to put off getting that shuffle if it's going to have a screen!

 

[Yvan256]

Flash is the future, hdds will be dead as soon as Flash prices fall

Not really. Every time flash prices go down, a company comes up with a way to dramatically increase hard disk capacity.

This time it's the "perpendicular recording" method from Toshiba. Be prepared for a 30~60GB iPod mini in less than 2 years, and a 300~600GB iPod too.

 

[kainjow]

That is because the hard disk companies don't want to go out of business. You think mechanical devices will be around forever? You think gasoline-powered cars will be around forever?

 

[ioinc]

Random play

I would counter that there are not many people out there who would want a 4 GB player without a screen. Managing 512 MB/1 GB without a screen - sure, okay, manageable - trying to manage 4 GB of music (over 1000 songs) without a UI? Many people would quickly become frustrated I believe.

Of course, I could be wrong...

I think there are. Most of the people I know (including myself) use the random play feature most of the time.

After all, the only songs that are on the device are ones you have chosen to put there. You should like them all. If one comes on that you are not in the mood for skip to the next.

Its nice to have the screen once in a while, but not a great loss if it were missing.

 

[mrgreen4242]

Wouldn't this move technically make it a iPod Shuffle? I mean, yes, it has a screen and that's different but the flash base makes it in the same group as the shuffle. I may have to put off getting that shuffle if it's going to have a screen!

In my opinion, it's the form factor that decides what line a product is in, not the internal components. So something that looks like a mini is a mini, regardless what's inside. A shuffle with a little screen on it would still be a shuffle if it looked like a shuffle, in my book.

 

[qubex]

Okay, this is about the right time to dump my SAMSUNG stock...

At the very best, whomever drew up the deal should be investigated for failing to protect their shareholders' interests. At the very worst, they should be charged with securities fraud.

 

[mrgreen4242]

Okay, this is about the right time to dump my SAMSUNG stock...

At the very best, whomever drew up the deal should be investigated for failing to protect their shareholders' interests. At the very worst, they should be charged with securities fraud.

? They should be investigated for getting an exclusive contract with the worlds leading portable music maker? Sure they may be making less profit on this batch of modules, but between the sheer bulk of the orders and the future purchases from Apple for other players will surely make up for that. If it's true that Samsung is getting an exclusive or at least very good contract with Apple for iPods I would be willing to bet the stock will raise.

 

[~Shard~]

I think there are. Most of the people I know (including myself) use the random play feature most of the time.

After all, the only songs that are on the device are ones you have chosen to put there. You should like them all. If one comes on that you are not in the mood for skip to the next.

As I said, I could easily be wrong, so no argument there. But again, with so much music, regardless of if the person likes everything or not, what if they want to find "that one song"? Or not even that one song, how about "that one album"? It could be tricky, and frustrating for some shuffling through 4GBs of music as opposed to 512 MB/1 GB. Whereas the shuffle is a more compact library, some people will have their entire libraries on this mythical 4 GB shuffle - I know I wouldn't want to randomize my entire iPod without the ability to listen to certain songs/albums. But then again, maybe that's all some people do - just listen to their music on random, which is fair enough - we all have different listening habits. I just find a smaller unit, i.e. the shuffle, more conducive to random play and no UI, rather than a larger player which can store so much more music (let alone Notes, Calendar entires, Contacts, etc.)

But hey, to each his own!

 

[qubex]

? They should be investigated for getting an exclusive contract with the worlds leading portable music maker? Sure they may be making less profit on this batch of modules, but between the sheer bulk of the orders and the future purchases from Apple for other players will surely make up for that. If it's true that Samsung is getting an exclusive or at least very good contract with Apple for iPods I would be willing to bet the stock will raise.

An exclusive contract to sell well under market rates is a forfeit of profit and thus shareholder value. Since it significantly reduces taxable income, it is also tax fraud and a securities offence.

 

[d.perel]

imagine what this deal will do to the price of iPod Shuffles! Maybe now they will be cheap enough to sell them at 7-Eleven

 

[d.perel]

Wait... What about the MP3 player Samsung makes themselves? Weren't they rumored to be "iPod Killers," even though some of them got bad reviews? I sense an alterior motive...

 

[one3]

What about something like this? .... same (similar) form factor as iPod shuffle ... color screen, aluminum 'cap' to make it distinct? Just something I was messing around with.

 

[madmaxmedia]

What would be the point of changing the location of the headphone jack? I have no idea who podfuture is, just speculating on what he said.

The Flash mini could possibly signal the beginning of squashing the Mini and Shuffle lines together. I mean if a 4GB Flash Mini with full interface costs $200, it makes the Shuffles a lot less attractive.

There were some reports recently that the Shuffle wasn't selling as good as expected (although it did get off to a hot start.)

I could still see room for a single Shuffle player perhaps, if the price goes to $99 for a 1 GB model. Don't know if they can really fit in a screen at that price, might not be worth the redesign either from Apple's standpoint.

 

[GilGrissom]

What about something like this? .... same (similar) form factor as iPod shuffle ... color screen, aluminum 'cap' to make it distinct? Just something I was messing around with.

I'm liking it! Nice little piece you've done there! Will be interesting to see how exactly a screen gets implemented onto the current shuffle form factor, if it ever does reach it in reality. If its a long horizontal screen down the body like yours, will it have the buttons rotated 90 degrees from what they are now, such as in yours, or remain the same??...hmm...questions questions!!

But a great fun little mock up! Thanks!

Now wouldn't you be freaked out if this came true or was close?!!

 

[madmaxmedia]

Wait... What about the MP3 player Samsung makes themselves? Weren't they rumored to be "iPod Killers," even though some of them got bad reviews? I sense an alterior motive...

Samsung is a huge company with multiple divisions that are run somewhat independently. Overall, a deal like this would profit Samsung even if it's at the expense of their music player sales (which don't add up to much compared to their memory sales.)

Samsung will really need to ramp up production to make just the memory for Apple, which will result in better economies of scale for Samsung down the line.

 

[ObsidianIce]

yes please

Maybe use the extra power for a color screen.
4GB Color Flash Mini at $149, the perfect holiday gift.

that would be a swee gift but VERY unlikely that it will have a $149 consumer store price, i would gues $169-$179 conumer price as the lowest probably, but that's just my opinion.

 

[SiliconAddict]

How does this sound?

iPod Product Range Autumn 2005

1GB Shuffle $99
2GB Shuffle $139
4GB Shuffle $179 (w/ screen, little thicker/heavier than Shuffle)

6GB iPod Mini $199
8GB iPod Mini $249

20GB iPod $299
40GB iPod $399
80GB iPod $499


I'd expect around about a ±10% price deviation upon release - possibly the 4GB Shuffle will be $199 and have smaller size and flash memory as the differentiator against a $199 iPod Mini.

A little editing:

512MB Shuffle $49???? Could be dropped. Who knows.
1GB Shuffle $99
2GB Shuffle $149


4GB iPod Mini Sport (Same form factor as the Mini just renamed to something else to show that its flashed based.)$199
8GB iPod Mini $249

20GB iPod $299
60GB iPod $399

60Gb iPod Video $499
80GB iPod Video $599

Yes I still think the iPod video is on its way. What I like about the above is that it leaves you with two options in each category. Low end \ High end for the Shuffle. Low end \ High end for the Mini. Low end \ High end for the iPod, and the same with the iPod video.

 

[madmaxmedia]

I think the 512MB Shuffle will be dropped. It's not profitable for Apple to sell at that price.

I think the iPod Video will be $499, not $599. Apple will price it more competitively, since the original iPod Photo did not sell great. Getting more iPod Videos into people's hands early will spur more content production (available in iTunes.)

A little editing:

512MB Shuffle $49???? Could be dropped. Who knows.
1GB Shuffle $99
2GB Shuffle $149


4GB iPod Mini Sport (Same form factor as the Mini just renamed to something else to show that its flashed based.)$199
8GB iPod Mini $249

20GB iPod $299
60GB iPod $399

80GB iPod Video $599

Yes I still think the iPod video is on its way.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I think the 512MB Shuffle will be dropped. It's not profitable for Apple to sell at that price.

I think the iPod Video will be $499, not $599. Apple will price it more competitively, since the original iPod Photo did not sell great. Getting more iPod Videos into people's hands early will spur more content production (available in iTunes.)

Actuall it is. I saw a review of the various parts in the 512 shuffle. Apple is making a killing. Let me see if I can find it again...........

As for the photo. Apple always guts the first adopters with stiff prices. Nothing new here. I think Apple will do the same thing they did with the photo. Bring out the video at an insane price that some of us will buy and drop it down in a few months time. Its their standard MO.

[Edit] Found it...Link

iSuppli's teardown of the iPod Shuffle revealed the product achieves its compact size partly through a highly-dense design that places components extremely close together. The density of the iPod Shuffle design is high compared to the Rio Forge Sport, or even in comparison with the other dozens of other handheld devices. The iPod Shuffle also makes use of ultra-thin chip-scale packaged semiconductors, the first time iSuppli's Teardown Analysis service has actually seen these advanced devices inside a piece of electronic equipment.
[snip]

ue to its elegant, highly-integrated design and slimmed-down feature set-and despite its use of more advanced packaging for its chips-the iPod Shuffle manages to achieve a lower BOM cost than the Rio Forge Sport. The total direct BOM of the iPod Shuffle is $43.21. When manufacturing is added, iPod Shuffle> '> s costs $45 to produce, iSuppli estimates.

Its possible by this Fall prices of 512 chips could fall further....so if manufacturing dropped below $40??? Who knows.

 

[mrgreen4242]

An exclusive contract to sell well under market rates is a forfeit of profit and thus shareholder value. Since it significantly reduces taxable income, it is also tax fraud and a securities offence.

I'm sorry, but you really aren't getting it. First off, market price is whatever the market will pay for a given quantity of the product. If they can sell 1,000,000 units at $X, great, but if they want to sell 10,000,000 units they may not be ble to find a buy willing to pay more than 1/2 $X. If they can increase the amount sold while decreasing cost per unit (which is almost a certainty, as a huge part of the cost per unit on something like this would be R/D, plant set up, etc, and a relatively small portion of the cost is going to be raw materials) then they will make more money selling 10x the units at half the price.

Did you ever take Calc in high school? I think every Calculus textbook includes an example of minimums and maximums based on factory production... if each unit produced costs less than the last, or more accurately, the first unit costs a tremendous amount of money and each sunsiquent unit costs very little, there is a balance where lowering your price per unit is going to result in more profit.

I suspect that Samsung isn't selling parts to Apple at a discount just 'cause they are really nice fellows, but rather because in order to make the most money on their investment of R/D and manufacturing facilities they needed to sell more units, even if they had to lower the price to get the contracts.

But, go ahead and sell your shares, hopefully one of my 401k funds will buy them up for you.