A Little Perspective on Unlocking & Why It's In YOUR Best Interest To THINK!

[NathanA]

First, for the "I'm never planning on leaving AT&T, so why would I unlock?" crowd, two things: first, resale value; and second, international travel. Your phone is worth more on the second-hand market if it is unlockable (whether "factory-unlocked" or hack-unlocked), and if you travel around, it is nice to have the freedom to be able to stick in a prepaid, international SIM in whatever country you happen to be in at the time, instead of paying AT&T out the nose for their BS international roaming rates (especially data...).

However, there is another whole side to purchasing a factory-unlocked iPhone internationally that hasn't been explored in this thread. If I had the option of buying a factory-unlocked phone domestically instead of an AT&T-locked one and then suffering through software unlocks, yeah, I'd do it in a heartbeat, even if I had to pay full-price for the handset. But because my only option to getting a factory-unlocked iPhone is by purchasing overseas, "no thank you."

Why? One word: warranty.

I agree that it is an ****** move by Apple, but it is still the case that unlike nearly every other product that Apple sells, warranty coverage on iPhone is NOT INTERNATIONAL. It is, in fact, limited to the country within which it was purchased. So to get it serviced in the event that it needs it, you either have to travel back to that country yourself, or send it to a friend in the area (if you have one). If you took that expensive, factory-unlocked phone into a US Apple Store for service, they would refuse you at the door (and even if they didn't have that policy, they couldn't replace it for you with anything other than an AT&T-locked one anyway, which would still necessitate that you get your phone serviced overseas if you wanted to keep it factory-unlocked).

I hate, hate, hate phone subsidies and BS SIM locks, but because 95% of my phone use is within my own country, it would be more inconvenient for me to not be able to get the phone serviced or replaced locally than it would be for me to have a hacked-unlock and risk losing the unlock because my phone needed service.

Not to mention, what do you do if you are phone-shopping for an internationally-unlocked model, and the very first one you get out of the gate is DOA or defective in some other way, and you only discover that once you get back over the border into your own country? I had a terrible experience with both my 3G and 3GS phones (the iPhone 4, in contrast, has been awesome...very reliably-built hardware that has given me 0 troubles so far!), and both required warranty replacement service twice within their lifetime (the 3GS required it twice within the first two weeks of ownership). I can't even imagine having to go through the hassle of getting that taken care of without a domestically-recognized warranty. With the 3G and 3GS, since I had AppleCare on them, it was literally call Apple, talk to them for 5-10 minutes, and wait for FedEx to show up the next day with a new phone and a prepaid box for me to send back the defective one with. I didn't even have to take time out of my day to go anywhere...they came to me!

Again, I'm not arguing that for some people, it might not make sense to go factory-unlocked instead of screwing around with software hacks. Maybe you visit the country you bought it from on a routine basis, so it's not an inconvenience to you if you do need to get your phone serviced. And I'm also not arguing that phones shouldn't be unlocked from the get-go, or that Apple is justified in denying warranty service to phones purchased elsewhere (totally BS, Apple; I mean, seriously!). I'm just saying that given the way things are, for a lot of people, it would be a huge inconvenience to deal with warranty claims, and this huge inconvenience can overshadow the benefits of a factory unlock.

Finally, I want to address jailbreaking for a second. You sound like you only jailbreak in order to unlock, which is why you lump waiting around for jailbreaks AND unlocks together. Most of us who jailbreak, however, don't simply do it for the unlock. (In fact, since I have yet to travel outside of my country with my iPhone 4, I haven't even bothered to install the unlock yet, but I was still jailbroken from day 1!) Oftentimes, the jailbreak and the unlock are worked on and released on completely different timetables with respect to one another, so just because a phone model has been jailbroken doesn't even mean it has been unlocked yet.

Now, if I was lucky enough to own a factory-unlocked iPhone, I still wouldn't jump immediately onto the upgrade bandwagon whenever a new Apple firmware came out, whereas it sounds like you would. To paraphrase YOU, it's in your best interest to THINK about what you do before you just go ahead and blindly do it. Right? And in the case of software upgrades from Apple, I would urge you to stop and think before you blindly jump in and upgrade your phone before a jailbreak is available. (And I hope that even if you do decide to upgrade that you are still aware enough to be backing up and collecting the SHSH bundles for your phone for each firmware version released by Apple. Because not being able to downgrade is COMPLETE BS. Just like having your baseband locked to a particular carrier's SIM is complete BS. Right?)

Even if you don't use the jailbreak for anything yourself, just like unlocked and unlockable phone are worth more second-hand, jailbroken and jailbreakABLE phones are ALSO worth more. Whenever Apple comes out with a new software release that a jailbreak is not available for yet, phones released from the factory with that software on it are worth less than phones that have not yet been loaded with the software, or which have it but also have backup SHSHs for older versions. (There have even been times, because of the way certain jailbreaks work, where if you had a phone that was still of the most current generation but purchased a few months ago, if you paid attention and made good decisions about software upgrades, you could actually run the newest software on it AND be jailbroken, but that same model phone purchased in the store that very day with the latest software on it would NOT be jailbreakable.)

Personally, in my mind, the war against jailbreaking that Apple is fighting is a much more important war for us as consumers to win than the battle against SIM locks. Apple is only fighting the SIM lock war because they are victims (willing victims, admittedly, but still victims nonetheless) of the cellular phone industry juggernaut. SIM locking was fashionable WAY before Apple entered the game, and if they wanted to play the game, they had to play by their rules. If Apple could get away with selling unlocked phones in the US right now, they would.

However, Apple has demonstrated that the software "jails" they have erected are something they are very much in favor of. They are trying to curate the user's experience through those jails, claiming that they are needed for the benefit of the user for security, or for software stability, or for UI consistency, or whatever. But the freedoms they are stealing away from consumers with these artificial software limitations are very much analogous to the freedoms of choice that SIM locks also take away from consumers, just in a different area.

The difference between the two is that one was invented by and is championed by Apple, and the other was not and is not. For the one that wasn't -- SIM locking -- the battle needs to be fought on different ground for it to be effective, because the enemy in that battle happens to be somebody other than Apple. For the issue that is championed by Apple -- software jails -- you need to be no less of a thinking, alert, and aware consumer than you do with the SIM locking issue.

-- Nathan

 

[bella92108]

First, for the "I'm never planning on leaving AT&T, so why would I unlock?" crowd, two things: first, resale value; and second, international travel. Your phone is worth more on the second-hand market if it is unlockable (whether "factory-unlocked" or hack-unlocked), and if you travel around, it is nice to have the freedom to be able to stick in a prepaid, international SIM in whatever country you happen to be in at the time, instead of paying AT&T out the nose for their BS international roaming rates (especially data...).

However, there is another whole side to purchasing a factory-unlocked iPhone internationally that hasn't been explored in this thread. If I had the option of buying a factory-unlocked phone domestically instead of an AT&T-locked one and then suffering through software unlocks, yeah, I'd do it in a heartbeat, even if I had to pay full-price for the handset. But because my only option to getting a factory-unlocked iPhone is by purchasing overseas, "no thank you."

Why? One word: warranty.

I agree that it is an ****** move by Apple, but it is still the case that unlike nearly every other product that Apple sells, warranty coverage on iPhone is NOT INTERNATIONAL. It is, in fact, limited to the country within which it was purchased. So to get it serviced in the event that it needs it, you either have to travel back to that country yourself, or send it to a friend in the area (if you have one). If you took that expensive, factory-unlocked phone into a US Apple Store for service, they would refuse you at the door (and even if they didn't have that policy, they couldn't replace it for you with anything other than an AT&T-locked one anyway, which would still necessitate that you get your phone serviced overseas if you wanted to keep it factory-unlocked).

I hate, hate, hate phone subsidies and BS SIM locks, but because 95% of my phone use is within my own country, it would be more inconvenient for me to not be able to get the phone serviced or replaced locally than it would be for me to have a hacked-unlock and risk losing the unlock because my phone needed service.

Not to mention, what do you do if you are phone-shopping for an internationally-unlocked model, and the very first one you get out of the gate is DOA or defective in some other way, and you only discover that once you get back over the border into your own country? I had a terrible experience with both my 3G and 3GS phones (the iPhone 4, in contrast, has been awesome...very reliably-built hardware that has given me 0 troubles so far!), and both required warranty replacement service twice within their lifetime (the 3GS required it twice within the first two weeks of ownership). I can't even imagine having to go through the hassle of getting that taken care of without a domestically-recognized warranty. With the 3G and 3GS, since I had AppleCare on them, it was literally call Apple, talk to them for 5-10 minutes, and wait for FedEx to show up the next day with a new phone and a prepaid box for me to send back the defective one with. I didn't even have to take time out of my day to go anywhere...they came to me!

Again, I'm not arguing that for some people, it might not make sense to go factory-unlocked instead of screwing around with software hacks. Maybe you visit the country you bought it from on a routine basis, so it's not an inconvenience to you if you do need to get your phone serviced. And I'm also not arguing that phones shouldn't be unlocked from the get-go, or that Apple is justified in denying warranty service to phones purchased elsewhere (totally BS, Apple; I mean, seriously!). I'm just saying that given the way things are, for a lot of people, it would be a huge inconvenience to deal with warranty claims, and this huge inconvenience can overshadow the benefits of a factory unlock.

Finally, I want to address jailbreaking for a second. You sound like you only jailbreak in order to unlock, which is why you lump waiting around for jailbreaks AND unlocks together. Most of us who jailbreak, however, don't simply do it for the unlock. (In fact, since I have yet to travel outside of my country with my iPhone 4, I haven't even bothered to install the unlock yet, but I was still jailbroken from day 1!) Oftentimes, the jailbreak and the unlock are worked on and released on completely different timetables with respect to one another, so just because a phone model has been jailbroken doesn't even mean it has been unlocked yet.

Now, if I was lucky enough to own a factory-unlocked iPhone, I still wouldn't jump immediately onto the upgrade bandwagon whenever a new Apple firmware came out, whereas it sounds like you would. To paraphrase YOU, it's in your best interest to THINK about what you do before you just go ahead and blindly do it. Right? And in the case of software upgrades from Apple, I would urge you to stop and think before you blindly jump in and upgrade your phone before a jailbreak is available. (And I hope that even if you do decide to upgrade that you are still aware enough to be backing up and collecting the SHSH bundles for your phone for each firmware version released by Apple. Because not being able to downgrade is COMPLETE BS. Just like having your baseband locked to a particular carrier's SIM is complete BS. Right?)

Even if you don't use the jailbreak for anything yourself, just like unlocked and unlockable phone are worth more second-hand, jailbroken and jailbreakABLE phones are ALSO worth more. Whenever Apple comes out with a new software release that a jailbreak is not available for yet, phones released from the factory with that software on it are worth less than phones that have not yet been loaded with the software, or which have it but also have backup SHSHs for older versions. (There have even been times, because of the way certain jailbreaks work, where if you had a phone that was still of the most current generation but purchased a few months ago, if you paid attention and made good decisions about software upgrades, you could actually run the newest software on it AND be jailbroken, but that same model phone purchased in the store that very day with the latest software on it would NOT be jailbreakable.)

Personally, in my mind, the war against jailbreaking that Apple is fighting is a much more important war for us as consumers to win than the battle against SIM locks. Apple is only fighting the SIM lock war because they are victims (willing victims, admittedly, but still victims nonetheless) of the cellular phone industry juggernaut. SIM locking was fashionable WAY before Apple entered the game, and if they wanted to play the game, they had to play by their rules. If Apple could get away with selling unlocked phones in the US right now, they would.

However, Apple has demonstrated that the software "jails" they have erected are something they are very much in favor of. They are trying to curate the user's experience through those jails, claiming that they are needed for the benefit of the user for security, or for software stability, or for UI consistency, or whatever. But the freedoms they are stealing away from consumers with these artificial software limitations are very much analogous to the freedoms of choice that SIM locks also take away from consumers, just in a different area.

The difference between the two is that one was invented by and is championed by Apple, and the other was not and is not. For the one that wasn't -- SIM locking -- the battle needs to be fought on different ground for it to be effective, because the enemy in that battle happens to be somebody other than Apple. For the issue that is championed by Apple -- software jails -- you need to be no less of a thinking, alert, and aware consumer than you do with the SIM locking issue.

-- Nathan

Can I get a one-paragraph summary of this? I can't read it all.

 

[qckslvrsiete]

16% insurance policy? Not sure where else you can buy insurance for such a low cost. People have insurance on their car and pay an average of $500 for 6 months of collision coverage on a $20,000 car. That's 25% increase in cost of ownership to add some financial stability in the event of what-ifs (like if they get laid off and can't afford their $150 a month cell bill they can walk away without an ETF and sell their Factory unlocked iPhone for almost what they paid).

MOST people don't have the need for an unlocked iPhone in the US, but there are a TON of travelers who do.

Look at it this way. Data is $20 per mb when traveling overseas ... the minimum an iPhone customer uses is 200mb (according to the almighty AT&T's plan structure, hehe), so that's roughly 7mb per day. Assuming someone spends 12 DAYS a year outside of the US (4% of their time), they pay off the "$20 a month" if their unlocked phone nets them nothing in sales gain over a standard phone. If we assume 25% premium they sell their phone for, it means they only have to spend 8 days a year using an international network to pay it off.

When I did my calculation, if I didn't subscribe to a data plan, I only had to travel ONE day per year to justify buying a foreign data sim. I am a heavier user, but how many people use only 200mb? I'd rather have the flexibility of having the ABILITY to buy a $10 sim for a week in London, and use all the data I want. It all goes back to insurance, and freedom of limitation.

.. but as with everything, to each his own... there's just no way for anyone to say it doesn't make financial sense ... there are plenty of people (like me) who it's paid itself off multiple times over...

Last section is the key, it's situational. I really don't think your plan would make sense for most people who find themselves in a situation of needing an unlock, but in your unique case, it has.

I would like to comment that the insurance comment is a little misleading. That 16% increase isn't so much insurance as it is a usage fee for a feature you may well never use, and could get for free with on the rare occasion that you do need it (no one should ever pay for a jailbreak or unlock, the tools are free and the documentation is out there, all you invest is a couple hours of time). And if unlocking one's iPhone really isn't an option and that person is only going to spend 12 days abroad, there's an abundance of sub $100 and sub $50 quad band GSM phones on craigslist that can be unlocked for another $20 it they aren't already. Although if someone is so attached to their iPhone that they absolutely have to have it with them (and no other phone will do) for their 12 days abroad, then maybe the $467 usage fee is worth it to them.

I think the reason that a lot of people took offense to your posting was that it came off (unintentionally I'd like to think) condescending, and it really only is a best-case scenario for a select few people who meet a very specific set of criteria. It's sort of like your auto-insurance comparison -- protecting a $20,000 investment at a rate of 25% (especially when auto insurance is required by law in the US) is completely different from paying 16% to ensure the functionality of a non-essential feature in a phone. Yet (and I'm assuming again this was unintentional), your comparison comes off as "if you can afford to insure your 20k car at 25% you certainly can afford to pay 16% for a feature you may never use." Or your statement that someone who can't afford $800 for a phone maybe shouldn't be considering a cell phone plan that costs $3000 over two years. You probably didn't realize it, but that statement sounds an awful lot like "if you can't afford $800 for a phone, you don't deserve to have it for $300."

Of course those are just my impressions, but judging by the reaction to your post, I think they may be shared by others. Your suggestion is fine, I think it was just the presentation that sort of kicked up the dust.

 

[NathanA]

Can I get a one-paragraph summary of this? I can't read it all.

No.



And stop quoting entire posts in your replies, especially your one-liners...it's rude.

EDIT: Okay, I will, but only with the provision that you can't respond without first reading the whole thing, because that would be unfair.

Two points:

First, buying an unlocked phone internationally doesn't work for some people -- even people who want an unlocked phone -- because AppleCare for iPhone is not internationally honored by Apple. So you can't get your phone serviced in your home country. Huge inconvenience.

Second, I can't understand the mentality of someone who cares so much about having a phone free from the encumberment of SIM locks but who apparently couldn't give a rip about jailbreaking apart from unlocking.

-- Nathan

 

[bella92108]

No.



And stop quoting entire posts in your replies, especially your one-liners...it's rude.

EDIT: Okay, I will, but only with the provision that you can't respond without first reading the whole thing, because that would be unfair.

Two points:

First, buying an unlocked phone internationally doesn't work for some people -- even people who want an unlocked phone -- because AppleCare for iPhone is not internationally honored by Apple. So you can't get your phone serviced in your home country. Huge inconvenience.

Second, I can't understand the mentality of someone who cares so much about having a phone free from the encumberment of SIM locks but who apparently couldn't give a rip about jailbreaking apart from unlocking.

-- Nathan

Sorry, just can't bring myself to read the diatribe, I'm out. ;-)

 

[MikePA]

No.

Nathan,

Be advised that some people only write encyclicals which contain their vast wisdom and insight into everyone elses situation and they expect all congregants to read and follow. They do not read others writings. Why? There's no need to. If you were the fount of all wisdom, would you waste your valuable time reading when you could be writing? Perish the thought. Remember, our job is to Read and Follow, Read and Follow, Read and Follow. Repeat after me. Read And Follow, Read and Follow. There you go, now you're getting it.

I am heading out to sell my iPhone4 (I will get only a pittance since it's locked to ATT - perhaps I will drop it in a Salvation Army kettle), contact a friend overseas to buy an unlocked iPhone and ship it to me. While this is going on, I will buy a TMobile SIM to use with it. Even though I have no plans to travel overseas, I will feel better knowing I've done the only correct thing possible. I just hope the regrets of being wrong all these years will not overwhelm me.

 

[surfkw]

where is my official unlock?

I run an unlocked iPhone because I recently moved out of the US. What peeves me is that I finished my contract with my 3G and ATT and yet I am still locked into their network unless I jailbreak my phone. Where is my unlock code? I paid Apple and ATT what they wanted/we agreed to and yet my phone is useless unless I continue to use ATT or take a risk and jailbreak my phone. Sticking with my 3G for a long time I think...

 

[63dot]

Name calling? I didn't call you any names. You seem to take it personal when someone posts a differing opinion. I stated that I recognize that there ARE alternatives to buying from AT&T, and I was told that my idea was absurd. I then said it's not for all, but SOME can benefit from them. Then out of right field I was told that a 3GS (not even a current model) is the path people should take... which I disagree with, but agreed is a valid solution.

No offense, but my solution IS the best PRODUCT for anyone. However, cost being a factor, as it is for many, there are alternatives. Not everyone needs the ability to travel the world and pop in another carrier's sim, without having to worry about losing their unlock if they want to have a current device with current software. My purpose for posting was for those on the fence about the reality of cost of ownership of a Factory Unlocked Model.

Clearly they sell for a LOT more on eBay, and resale value is the best gauge of demand, so clearly someone with an AT&T iPhone 4, or an unlocked iPhone 3GS has a device that's less desirable to the masses than a Factory Unlocked iPhone 4.

I have been here on these forums for ten years, under jefhatfield and now 63dot, and though I agree with your arguments, you just came here to pick a fight with everybody.

Advice to you, please stop trolling.

That being said, your points of view are correct, imho, but you don't need to alienate the entire MR community over this issue and put out a troll thread.

People get banned for this.

 

[Winni]

Here's a killer feature you can only have with a jailbroken iPhone: iBlacklist.

Other than that, Freedom of choice is always a got enough reason to jailbreak a device. Or buy one instead that was never locked in the first place.

 

[eastercat]

Martiansoldier already did a great job of pointing out the lack of warranty service from buying an overseas iphone and the extra surcharge that people tack onto the so-called factory unlocked iphone. I say so-called, because there's no way to verify--until you get the phone in your hands--that it's really factory unlocked. Sure, I can get AmEx to go after them if they sold me a software unlocked phone--assuming the refund process doesn't work. However, that still doesn't solve the problem of what I should do if my phone conks out on me.

You know this thing you're on now? The Internet. Well, it provides us with the ability to order and receive things to our doorstep right from the comfort of that desk chair you're sat in. It even goes to other countries - seriously, check it out.
[/sarcasm]