[A] The Agency - GAME OVER -- SPIES WIN

[Queen of Spades]

In the QOS vs DP debate I think both have done a pretty good job at deflecting and pointing fingers at each other.

@Queen of Spades, several folks questioned your choice in team as well. I'm not sure I recall reading a satisfactory answer as to what was your thinking behind using so many of the same players that DP used? If you knew he was a spy after I was fully cleared then why would you take such a risk?

mscriv - most cleared player, universally seen as a good choice
Wood - cleared mscriv, and also has to vote publicly via Under Surveillance
twietee - confirmed mscriv is an Agent, could have lied and caused mass confusion/stalled the Agents further
Fenris - this is the one where it's mostly hunch, and thus could be completely wrong

If you're referring to my first draft team (mscriv, twietee, Techgod, Fenris), leaving Wood out was a mistake. I just wanted to get TechGod involved but Fenris/Wood should have been swapped there.

I'm confused though, DP's team included me, Moyank, Fenris and twietee. My team only contained 2 of those 4. Not including myself, DP, and Koodauw in my team building pretty much ensures there will be some overlap.

 

[ravenvii]

@TechGod lets get a final team going.

 

[mscriv]

mscriv - most cleared player, universally seen as a good choice
Wood - cleared mscriv, and also has to vote publicly via Under Surveillance
twietee - confirmed mscriv is an Agent, could have lied and caused mass confusion/stalled the Agents further
Fenris - this is the one where it's mostly hunch, and thus could be completely wrong

If you're referring to my first draft team (mscriv, twietee, Techgod, Fenris), leaving Wood out was a mistake. I just wanted to get TechGod involved but Fenris/Wood should have been swapped there.

I'm confused though, DP's team included me, Moyank, Fenris and twietee. My team only contained 2 of those 4. Not including myself, DP, and Koodauw in my team building pretty much ensures there will be some overlap.

Okay, thanks for explaining. I was only speaking of the two player overlap with Fenris and Twietee. It's a tough call because if we assume DP to be a spy, and that he put you on the team to be "framed", then it is plausible to think that there is a spy among Fenris, Twietee, and Moyank. When you put 2 of those 3 on your team as well it comes across like a big risk. Just being honest, I'm not sure how to interpret that???

 

[TechGod]

Locking team.
Mscriv
Wood
Tweetie
Sythas

Three of those are at least trusted by varying amounts with Sythas being the unknown.

 

[Queen of Spades]

Okay, thanks for explaining. I was only speaking of the two player overlap with Fenris and Twietee. It's a tough call because if we assume DP to be a spy, and that he put you on the team to be "framed", then it is plausible to think that there is a spy among Fenris, Twietee, and Moyank. When you put 2 of those 3 on your team as well it comes across like a big risk. Just being honest, I'm not sure how to interpret that???

Yeah, I'm not sure about those 3 at all, but again, the choices are down to: Sythas, TechGod, Fenris, twietee, and Moyank. I am excluding DP, Koodauw (spies), myself, you (should be on team) and Wood (should be on team).

Sythas and TechGod haven't been as active, but I believe TechGod for whatever reason. So between those five, who do you believe is innocent? I went with Fenris because I like Moyank and thus am more willing to trust her to my own demise. I may be overcorrecting on that, but between her and Fenris, he gets the nod all things being equal. twietee got my placement for reasons stated above.

Are you suggesting that you'd prefer one or more of Sythas, TechGod, and Moyank? If so, why? I don't see how they're any more cleared than the suggestions I made which you took exception to.

 

[twietee]

Alright - thanks for trusting me TechGod.

Was just about to answer mscriv's question with the very same team except Mo for Sythas.

What I meant was that I would have definitely preferred at team without wood and Fenris (DPs out of question for me anyway - next round when we get new plots we can look into that territory if you ask me.

edit to clarify: wood and Fenris at the same time, of course

 

[mscriv]

Locking team.
Mscriv
Wood
Tweetie
Sythas

Three of those are at least trusted by varying amounts with Sythas being the unknown.

Are you suggesting that you'd prefer one or more of Sythas, TechGod, and Moyank? If so, why? I don't see how they're any more cleared than the suggestions I made which you took exception to.

It's so hard to know who to pick, but I know my initial gut reaction when I think someone is guilty is to avoid players they have put on a team. Of course this could easily be "throwing out the baby with the bathwater" as I don't know how likely it is that a spy would put multiple fellow spies on a team intentionally. However, without further evidence it still puts us in a position of not knowing who is the guilty party and thus it seems easier to just try new players. Although, this option is fraught with peril as well because with 4 spies out of 10 picking a whole new team will likely result in the selection of another unknown spy.

 

[twietee]

alright, night night. Curious how that pans out but don't think this list could get much better anyway without more info.

YAY

 

[WoodNUFC]

Yay

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

Ok - lots happened whilst I've been out today.

QoS Team: mscriv, Wood, Twietee, Fenris
TechGod Team: mscriv, Wood, Twietee, Sythas

So TechGod basically has used QoS team and replaces me with Sythas. I don't see anything to suggest that Sythas is more trustable than me - so I don't see any reason why someone who Nayed QoS team would Yay this one?! Please enlighten me.

@twietee Why Nay QoS's team and then Yay TechGod's - you think Sythas is more likely to be an agent than me?

@TechGod - do you think QoS is an agent or a spy? I'm confused by your team choice either way.

 

[TechGod]

Ok - lots happened whilst I've been out today.

QoS Team: mscriv, Wood, Twietee, Fenris
TechGod Team: mscriv, Wood, Twietee, Sythas

So TechGod basically has used QoS team and replaces me with Sythas. I don't see anything to suggest that Sythas is more trustable than me - so I don't see any reason why someone who Nayed QoS team would Yay this one?! Please enlighten me.

@twietee Why Nay QoS's team and then Yay TechGod's - you think Sythas is more likely to be an agent than me?

@TechGod - do you think QoS is an agent or a spy? I'm confused by your team choice either way.

I'm not sure about QOS. Same as DP. Have no idea.

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

I'm not sure about QOS. Same as DP. Have no idea.

k - just confused because you Nayed QoS team then proposed one that was only 1 team member different. Do you think I'm a spy then?!

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

Player List:

1. mscriv
2. Koodauw
3. Don't panic (No Confidence used, counts as a Nay vote)
4. Queen of Spades (5 Nay votes)
5. TechGod (current leader)
6. WoodNUFC
7. Sythas
8. Moyank24
9. FenrisMoonlight
10. twietee

At this point in the game the team I'd like most to put together would be myself, Wood, TechGod, and Sythas. It's a "shot in the dark", but if it fails then we know there is a spy between Tech and Sythas. This would help us possibly be able to better trust characters like Moyank, Fenris and Twietee. The problem we have at this point is that since both QOS and DP have used similar players on their teams it casts doubt on all of them. Sadly, based on our player order there is no way to put together the team I have suggested. Wood and Sythas are next up to lead and we can't get to Moyank as a leader without reaching our 5 Nay votes in a row limit.

There is a way - Moyank could Take Responsibility your or DP's Strong Leader (DP's probably preferred since he's only been cleared once) and we Nay this team - then Moyank could put forward your team suggestion.

 

[twietee]

No, I think Moyank should definitely keep her plot to assure you use No Confidence when need be (in case you really are a spy and she's and agent).

It's a pity DPs not around as usual. I'd be pretty disappointed if he's doing the under the radar show while being a baddie himself.

Fenris, in short: yes. Longer version: In the end you were put into both of QoS/DPs teams so yes: I do suspect you, quite a lot tbh, there is at least one spy among you and wood. And yes, I still have hefty reservations re woodNUFC, not sure why people think that under Surveillance keeps him definitely in check - but I have to admit that a) I could be wrong about him (possible) and b) it's not much more attractive to have both of Sythas/Moyank on the mission since, in case we had failed with woodNUFC voting success again, we'd still left in the dark pretty much and c)it looks like most favor him on a team, even mscriv, so I too take that into account as it looks as I'm mostly the only one to suspect him that much.

 

[TechGod]

k - just confused because you Nayed QoS team then proposed one that was only 1 team member different. Do you think I'm a spy then?!

What evidence suggests you aren't?

 

[Sythas]

No, I think Moyank should definitely keep her plot to assure you use No Confidence when need be (in case you really are a spy and she's and agent).

It's a pity DPs not around as usual. I'd be pretty disappointed if he's doing the under the radar show while being a baddie himself.

Fenris, in short: yes. Longer version: In the end you were put into both of QoS/DPs teams so yes: I do suspect you, quite a lot tbh, there is at least one spy among you and wood. And yes, I still have hefty reservations re woodNUFC, not sure why people think that under Surveillance keeps him definitely in check - but I have to admit that a) I could be wrong about him (possible) and b) it's not much more attractive to have both of Sythas/Moyank on the mission since, in case we had failed with woodNUFC voting success again, we'd still left in the dark pretty much and c)it looks like most favor him on a team, even mscriv, so I too take that into account as it looks as I'm mostly the only one to suspect him that much.

For Wood it's not that we can trust him, just that we all see what he's voting. I would not want to put him if the spy need one more fail to win, unless we know he's fine like everybody else.

Locking team.
Mscriv
Wood
Tweetie
Sythas

Three of those are at least trusted by varying amounts with Sythas being the unknown.

Hummm I'm in that team so good point!
Wood under surv is a good point right now
Mscriv is the clearest one we have a good good point.

Twietee.... We have nothing on him, just like me and a lot of people.

If the mission FAIL, we will have to choose between me and twietee who's the culprit and just both of us will know.

The only better solution (from my point of view, for you it's me or twietee) is to switch Twietee for DP then I will know if DP and Koodauw are in cahoot. But that information would be useless, since I don't think you guys will believe me

 

[twietee]

Gosh, Sythas you're not establishing much confidence over here!

For Wood it's not that we can trust him, just that we all see what he's voting. I would not want to put him if the spy need one more fail to win, unless we know he's fine like everybody else.

If the mission FAIL, we will have to choose between me and twietee who's the culprit and just both of us will know.

Wood can cause one hell of a ruckus and collateral damage if he just ***** on Under Surv. and votes fail now.(edit: in case he's a spy)

If we'd fail this mission because of you, at least folks just have to avoid both of us which would be the lesser evil in my opinion.

 

[Sythas]

Gosh, Sythas you're not establishing much confidence over here!



Wood can cause one hell of a ruckus and collateral damage if he just ***** on Under Surv. and votes fail now.(edit: in case he's a spy)

If we'd fail this mission because of you, at least folks just have to avoid both of us which would be the lesser evil in my opinion.

I don't see the game as establishing confidence and thrust, that's what WW game are for !

I see this game as the spies controlling the conversation and using as much space they can.

The best chance we have to win is trying to get the most information next turn. I think this turn is more like a bad bandaid you need to take off and hope for the best.

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

No, I think Moyank should definitely keep her plot to assure you use No Confidence when need be (in case you really are a spy and she's and agent).

It's a pity DPs not around as usual. I'd be pretty disappointed if he's doing the under the radar show while being a baddie himself.

Fenris, in short: yes. Longer version: In the end you were put into both of QoS/DPs teams so yes: I do suspect you, quite a lot tbh, there is at least one spy among you and wood. And yes, I still have hefty reservations re woodNUFC, not sure why people think that under Surveillance keeps him definitely in check - but I have to admit that a) I could be wrong about him (possible) and b) it's not much more attractive to have both of Sythas/Moyank on the mission since, in case we had failed with woodNUFC voting success again, we'd still left in the dark pretty much and c)it looks like most favor him on a team, even mscriv, so I too take that into account as it looks as I'm mostly the only one to suspect him that much.

You should be more worried about the possibility that Moyank is a spy taking the no confidence from me. However unless its the 1 card that doesn't come out we should get another no confidence and its not so important to keep 1 back for mission 5 cards now. It may be necessary to use one for mission 4 once the cards have gone out if we fail this mission so I'm hoping I'm not forced to use it earlier.

Wood - yeah I'm damn sure he'd have hidden in mission 1 if he was a spy then. I'm kinda hoping he isn't - would mean he was a spy all 3 games if he was and he's been a lot more vocal this game than the first 2 which makes me think maybe he isn't. The under surveillance doesn't keep him in check but it immediately outs him if he's forced to vote failure - hence why my suggestion was to put 3 people who are most likely agents on the mission with him.

I really think as mscriv does that we need to make our best guess as to which of DP/QoS was the spy and go with it.

I'm still not totally convinced QoS is the spy although is seems likely but most people seem to think that's the case since they denied her mission team.

 

[ravenvii]

C'mon guys, let's vote. Deadline is tonight at 6 PM EST.

 

[mscriv]

I think this turn is more like a bad bandaid you need to take off and hope for the best.

Very well said. I haven't followed everything you've posted this game, but I'm in full agreement with the quote above.

 

[Don't panic]

lot's of stuff to go through!
sorry guys, but i am being very busy these days

i'll read and comment.
i'll try to combine replies to various posts so i'll add them as edits

 

[Don't panic]

mscriv, I think you as the most cleared by far should voice your opinion re TechGods choice/open spot(s).

I personally would prefer Fenris not being on the team and are quite suspicious about Wood as well - although I agree that for wood there can be made an argument being included - although it really depends on how much pressure the spies think is up on 'em - impossible to say as an outsider. Meaning that (in case wood is an agent spy who played the long game) he may vote failure regardless under surveillance.

I think Moyank should be considered and I'm kinda glad you guys (rightly) perceive me as innocent as it can be said about someone totally uncleared. I appreciate that!

As my fellow agents know, being completely alone out there all the time (at least I know about mscriv - but that isn't accounting for anything in his perspective) isn't easy - and it gets a bit tireing to think about what would xyz do if s/he is a spy all the frigging time. I think, although equally demanding, playing as a spy has at least the huge advantage about knowing who is who (plus knowing exactly who are the "specials-agents"/plots) - although that's just what I think, never played one. I think this is a bit different to the WW games which do move on re knowledge (cleared/uncleared) while playing plus has the added bonus that the bad guys are searching in the dark as well for a good measure (for the specials). Well, that got a bit OT.

from last (half) game one hard part for the spies is to try to understand other spies' game, since there is no comunications, and try to convey a strategy or decision, or suggest a move. since spies know other spies, at least they can focus on them and disregard what the agent say (in this context). as an agent, it is much more difficult, because anyone could be trying to send a message, or we could read 'messages' in posts that are in reality completely innocent.
it gets very complicated very quickly, and it is very easy to get directed down the wrong paranoid path (for example, your post above could be construed as a suggestion to wood on how to vote)

-------
EDIT 1

Wow a very busy Wednesday all!

I do think it's plausible that a mission could be nay under a leader and then yay by the second leader, if we don't thrust the first leader. It's not just because of the player on the team but the leader too.

Ok that's sad that we are in a standoff like that, with no information.

Obviously I would say to choose me !

I really don't like this but a team of Mscriv, Koodauw, Wood and Twietee ? If we have a spy in that team they won't know who should vote fail ? This could possiblibly go back to clear DP and/or QOS ? We can't afford to loose an agent and wait for the mission to go to the last resort either

i am not following: if we have one spy there, why wouldn't they just fail? especially with he two-fail mission coming up? where is the compication?
if there are two (or more) spies, then ,yes they would need to coordinate votes

------
EDIT 2

When we went from team one to team two, you and DP were the new players in the team.

In my mind :

the spy who stay in the team should vote success and the new spy should vote fail.
If there's no new spy, that spy will then vote fail so the suspicion is spread out.


you and Wood are kind of clear (not wood on the last mission tho )

If we put Koodauw and twietee in the same team, if they are both spies they won't know who should vote fail. If that mission is clear we would have a good information on the clearance of DP.

Anyway my tactics works best if for team 1 and 2 we don't pick the same person twice.

here is a perfect example of what i was saying before.
if Sythas is a spy, these are clear instructions: if he is introduced in a team with another spy, he will vote fail, so the other should not
if sythas is not a spy, then it is an innocent, and reasonable, way to analyze things.

as fara as wood being clear, it is quite a stretch imo (mscriv i agree). also i don't see how that gives much info on my clearance

EDIT 3:

Yeah sorry - can see that looks a bit suspicious but I was genuinely so focused on what we can deduce from which of DP, QoS or mscriv failed mission 2 that I missed the fact that that means there since at least 1 of those is true means that at least 1 person was a spy in mission 1. In my defence if I was a spy I'd have known there was a spy hiding and I wouldn't have missed it. I'm also the only person who voted Nay for the doomed mission 2 team.

kind of nitpicking, but you are quoting twietee and somehow attributing the quote to me

 

[twietee]

I know DP, that's what dislike by far in this format. You've probably noticed in the past few years that I'm more of the talkative type, so holding back on possible strategies/scenarios (besides you funny guys the aspect i like probably most in these games) is brutal. And also diminishes the differences between spies/agents since everybody has to hold back with the bonus of the spies to have the possibilty to talk between the lines (still hard, but at least an option and has some kind of fun in it while as an agent you might as well keep your mouth shut for a lot of relevant stuff).

anyway, just wanted to point that out re wood. should habe probably nay'd, but it's still better to be on it myself (than fenris for example) and i sill believe from what i read in here everybody would have brought wood into a list.

wood is a vet so i doubt i'd tell him something he wouldn't know and (since i'm an agent) in case sythas and wood are both spies: sythas would have to guess whether my comment was serious or not. and in case wood really fails the mission: me and him would have been exposed (with sythas being collateral damage for the time being: not sure that would have been worth the comment since a lot of people see me somewhat more trustworthy than others.

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

here is a perfect example of what i was saying before.
if Sythas is a spy, these are clear instructions: if he is introduced in a team with another spy, he will vote fail, so the other should not
if sythas is not a spy, then it is an innocent, and reasonable, way to analyze things.

as fara as wood being clear, it is quite a stretch imo (mscriv i agree). also i don't see how that gives much info on my clearance

Agreed that does appear to be a very clear instruction to another spy that Sythas will fail it.

kind of nitpicking, but you are quoting twietee and somehow attributing the quote to me

Weird! sorry - not sure how that happened, certainly wasn't intentional. I've editted the quote to be correct.