[A] The Agency - GAME OVER -- SPIES WIN

[Don't panic]

That premise is far from wrong. The fact that you are unwilling to accept it doesn't mean that it isn't true.

didn't we go through this already n times?

i assume mscriv to be clean, sine he has been confirmed by two different sources (one being you, if you want to change your story now, i'll listen ), thus the fial vote had to be from me or QoS. since it is not from me, it must be from QoS.

that said, it is obvious that spies know who other spies are, but that adds nothing

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

I know DP, that's what dislike by far in this format. You've probably noticed in the past few years that I'm more of the talkative type, so holding back on possible strategies/scenarios (besides you funny guys the aspect i like probably most in these games) is brutal. And also diminishes the differences between spies/agents since everybody has to hold back with the bonus of the spies to have the possibilty to talk between the lines (still hard, but at least an option and has some kind of fun in it while as an agent you might as well keep your mouth shut for a lot of relevant stuff).

anyway, just wanted to point that out re wood. should habe probably nay'd, but it's still better to be on it myself (than fenris for example) and i sill believe from what i read in here everybody would have brought wood into a list.

wood is a vet so i doubt i'd tell him something he wouldn't know and (since i'm an agent) in case sythas and wood are both spies: sythas would have to guess whether my comment was serious or not. and in case wood really fails the mission: me and him would have been exposed (with sythas being collateral damage for the time being: not sure that would have been worth the comment since a lot of people see me somewhat more trustworthy than others.

I currently semi trust you as I think it would probably have been better for a spy to claim mscriv was a spy. However that may have been thought to be a dangerous move that would out you as a spy or if Wood is a spy in hiding better to get them more trusted (or ofc the possiblility you,mscriv and Wood are all spies) so its not certain. You'd still have been my first pick of replacement for me in my suggested team.

mscriv, Wood, DP and you would be a good team. Hopefully it succeeds but if it fails it would give us very useful information. Obviously from my POV I'd prefer me to you on the team since I know I'm an agent but your probably the most sensible alternative based on what we'd be able to learn from the outcome of the mission. From you POV you obviously prefer you on the team (for the same reason I prefer me)

 

[Sythas]

Agreed that does appear to be a very clear instruction to another spy that Sythas will fail it.


Weird! sorry - not sure how that happened, certainly wasn't intentional. I've editted the quote to be correct.

My information was in response that you guys came out with the information that there's absolutely one spy in the first mission and way before I was in discution to be on the team I think. My POV was what the new spy in second team (since your were that new person) would react if there's already a spy in the team. I tried to make a point regarding that team 1 and team 2 should not be the same people.

Anyhow, I'll yay this team, since I don't think we can do better for everyone.

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

As usual all the early votes are Yay votes from the members of the team. I'm not sure why agents on the team are still doing that - it doesn't help us one bit in determining anything from the way people not on the team vote. I'm going to vote Nay. The team is only 1 person different from QoS's team which 1/2 of you distrusted. Replacing me with Sythas doesn't make it anymore likely to succeed IMO (since I know I'm an agent).

If QoS is a spy that included a spy in her team, there is still a spy in that team.

 

[Don't panic]

No, I disagree with that list. I'm down with that strategy the next turn, would stick Koodauw into the team and pray for either a possible eavesdrop on him (to know about him and DP) or Open Up. With mscriv on the team we also have our go to guy for the result.

It's up for TechGod to decide, but I strongly plea for a spot or at least not Fenris and Wood (and certainly not DP as well) on the mission at the same time.

i am confuesed now, is this fenris' list you are talking about? (still working through the thread)

EDIT:

first off, i don't think QoS is a spy. I know she is one. And so does her, and 3-4 other people. (the other 3 spies and koodauw -who could be a spy himself-)

​

That sounds almost like there were 5 spies around. Bit oddly worded.

what i meant is: i know she is a spy (1), she knows she is a spy (2), the other 3 spies know she is a spy (3-4-5), and koodauw know i am an agent, so he knows she is a spy (6). however, koodauw could still be spy himself, so that would overlap with the previous bit

 

[twietee]

i am confuesed now, is this fenris' list you are talking about? (still working through the thread)

Yes. Got ninja'd by a couple of guys in between (can't remember, may have had to pause due phone call or something) but saw while replying that mscriv had something going on for it as well. I was thinking some time before about that as well, bringing in Koodauw to either eavesdrop or open up on him, but had to realize that there were no new plots now anyway so thought (and still thinking) that this strategy is too dangerous now. Although I do have to say that I somewhat trust you way more thatn QoS I for one would like not to take chances. I'd prefer to clear Koodauw though (hence bring him into the team - but only when there are new plots deployed) than bring you in.

As for Fenris, I can see QoS setting us up. Presenting a tentative list that would give zero info on fellow spies in case she'd been found out. Most probably being aware that this tema wouldn't go past quality control anyway and equally questionable if any team of her would have been yay'd. Still think there could be made a good case against woodNUFC imo.

Hmm, probably you guys should nay this. But I equally fear we wouldn't find a consent on who's likely to be on it?

mscriv
techG (grew on me tbh)
Fenris
twietee

?? could work / could bring us a fail without any real info. ?? ****, really no idea this time and turn! Feel lost tbh.

 

[twietee]

As usual all the early votes are Yay votes from the members of the team. I'm not sure why agents on the team are still doing that - it doesn't help us one bit in determining anything from the way people not on the team vote.

This is true, and I apologize for that. I really thought we went over everything already thrice so threw out a quick yay before heading off to bed since I thought that was a "good as it gets" team. You're right though, will keep that in mind for future rounds.

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

Yes. Got ninja'd by a couple of guys in between (can't remember, may have had to pause due phone call or something) but saw while replying that mscriv had something going on for it as well. I was thinking some time before about that as well, bringing in Koodauw to either eavesdrop or open up on him, but had to realize that there were no new plots now anyway so thought (and still thinking) that this strategy is too dangerous now. Although I do have to say that I somewhat trust you way more thatn QoS I for one would like not to take chances. I'd prefer to clear Koodauw though (hence bring him into the team - but only when there are new plots deployed) than bring you in.

As for Fenris, I can see QoS setting us up. Presenting a tentative list that would give zero info on fellow spies in case she'd been found out. Most probably being aware that this tema wouldn't go past quality control anyway and equally questionable if any team of her would have been yay'd. Still think there could be made a good case against woodNUFC imo.

That was my main reason for holding back on giving out my thoughts on things from the previous no confidence mission until she had suggested a team, so she wouldn't be influenced by that. QoS could easily be setting us up - but we have no way of knowing.

Hmm, probably you guys should nay this. But I equally fear we wouldn't find a consent on who's likely to be on it?

mscriv
techG (grew on me tbh)
Fenris
twietee

?? could work / could bring us a fail without any real info. ?? ****, really no idea this time and turn! Feel lost tbh.

It could work, but if it fails then most people would have no real info to work on, as it could be any of TechG, me or you that failed it.

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

This is true, and I apologize for that. I really thought we went over everything already thrice so threw out a quick yay before heading off to bed since I thought that was a "good as it gets" team. You're right though, will keep that in mind for future rounds.

Thanks. Hopefully it will help.

 

[Queen of Spades]

I'm not setting you up, buttheads.

i know she is a spy (1), she knows she is a spy (2), the other 3 spies know she is a spy (3-4-5), and koodauw know i am an agent, so he knows she is a spy (6). however, koodauw could still be spy himself, so that would overlap with the previous bit

1) I'm not a spy, 2) Still not a spy, 3) Koodauw is your spy comrade

Yes. Got ninja'd by a couple of guys in between (can't remember, may have had to pause due phone call or something) but saw while replying that mscriv had something going on for it as well. I was thinking some time before about that as well, bringing in Koodauw to either eavesdrop or open up on him, but had to realize that there were no new plots now anyway so thought (and still thinking) that this strategy is too dangerous now. Although I do have to say that I somewhat trust you way more thatn QoS I for one would like not to take chances. I'd prefer to clear Koodauw though (hence bring him into the team - but only when there are new plots deployed) than bring you in.

As for Fenris, I can see QoS setting us up. Presenting a tentative list that would give zero info on fellow spies in case she'd been found out. Most probably being aware that this tema wouldn't go past quality control anyway and equally questionable if any team of her would have been yay'd. Still think there could be made a good case against woodNUFC imo.

Hmm, probably you guys should nay this. But I equally fear we wouldn't find a consent on who's likely to be on it?

mscriv
techG (grew on me tbh)
Fenris
twietee

?? could work / could bring us a fail without any real info. ?? ****, really no idea this time and turn! Feel lost tbh.

Yeah, I don't think that list is a good one. We need to be able to zero down on the spy immediately in case of a fail in order to salvage the game. I know two spies: DP and Koodauw. Even if we fail one more time, it should (reasonably? there are no guarantees) tell us a 3rd spy. Then the odds are in our favor of excluding 3 spies on every following team ( spies requiring 2 fail votes) and we win.

 

[twietee]

Then the odds are in our favor of excluding 3 spies on every following team ( spies requiring 2 fail votes) and we win.

Not true though. Only on mission four two fails are needed.

 

[Queen of Spades]

Not true though. Only on mission four two fails are needed.

That's what I'm talking about - the next mission, regardless of the outcome of this one. Which is why we need turn 3 team to include the best possible scenario for finding the one spy, in case of failure.

 

[twietee]

That's what I'm talking about

But you said "every other following team"?

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

@Don't panic You've probably answered this before but remind me. Why did you think QoS was more trustworthy than mscriv when you proposed your team?

 

[Queen of Spades]

But you said "every other following team"?

Yes, every team proposal from that point on.

 

[twietee]

I'm not setting you up, buttheads.

HUH? Wut did u call me?

 

[Don't panic]

In the QOS vs DP debate I think both have done a pretty good job at deflecting and pointing fingers at each other.

@Don't panic, can you please explain something to me? When you were putting your team together you openly expressed suspicion of me and WoodNUFC. I can understand that. What confuses me is why did you not include Koodauw on your team? At that point in the game he had more than proven himself as potentially trustworthy through voting success on the first mission and by clearing you through the use of the Eavesdrop card given to him by me. I can't figure out why any player who is an agent wouldn't have taken those odds and continued with Koodauw on the next team. You chose QOS and she had less evidence to vouch for her than Koodauw.

@Queen of Spades, several folks questioned your choice in team as well. I'm not sure I recall reading a satisfactory answer as to what was your thinking behind using so many of the same players that DP used? If you knew he was a spy after I was fully cleared then why would you take such a risk?

well, since either you (and thus wood) or QoS were bad, with the other being likely good guys. I went with QoS over you because -if she was good- then we would have two bad guys instead of one.
i didn't include koodauw because first i wasn't really sure of what he is, since i think he would have cleared me no matter what and a I am not putting any stock in mission 1 votes, second because o thought it would have muddied the waters to put in the person that was clearing me, since we would have gone into a self-referring loop, especially if i ended up giving him a card (which i would have, since i wasn't going to give one to QoS. maybe in hindsight it was a mistake, but i wanted to both have the possibility of putting in a successful team, and to identify the bad guy between you and QoS.

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

So the deadline Raven has given us is only just over 2 hours away and still only 4 people voted. @ravenvii what happens if we get to deadline and we're still missing votes. Highest vote wins?

Current votes - voting script updated so it should alert those that haven't voted.

Votes
yay: 3 twietee, WoodNUFC, Sythas
nay: 1 FenrisMoonlight

Yet to vote: @Moyank24, @Don't panic, @Koodauw, @TechGod, @mscriv

Voting Log
Post 708 twietee voted for yay
Post 709 WoodNUFC voted for yay
Post 728 Sythas voted for yay
Post 729 FenrisMoonlight voted for nay

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

well, since either you (and thus wood) or QoS were bad, with the other being likely good guys. I went with QoS over you because -if she was good- then we would have two bad guys instead of one.
i didn't include koodauw because first i wasn't really sure of what he is, since i think he would have cleared me no matter what and a I am not putting any stock in mission 1 votes, second because o thought it would have muddied the waters to put in the person that was clearing me, since we would have gone into a self-referring loop, especially if i ended up giving him a card (which i would have, since i wasn't going to give one to QoS. maybe in hindsight it was a mistake, but i wanted to both have the possibility of putting in a successful team, and to identify the bad guy between you and QoS.

ok this makes sense and I think also answers the concern I had over your team choice. I was wondering why you were considering the more complex scenario of mscriv and Wood being spies more likely than the simpler one of QoS being a spy and therefore including QoS rather than mscriv in your team. It seemed to go against your normal process of preferring the simpler explanation.

 

[twietee]

he did already explain that back then, no? I thought so..but this thread is so convoluted now, I really have no clue where to start re-reading...

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

he did already explain that back then, no? I thought so..but this thread is so convoluted now, I really have no clue where to start re-reading...

I think he did, but I'm with you - thread is so long and convoluted I'm not sure what I may have missed so asked again.

 

[mscriv]

well, since either you (and thus wood) or QoS were bad, with the other being likely good guys. I went with QoS over you because -if she was good- then we would have two bad guys instead of one.
i didn't include koodauw because first i wasn't really sure of what he is, since i think he would have cleared me no matter what and a I am not putting any stock in mission 1 votes, second because o thought it would have muddied the waters to put in the person that was clearing me, since we would have gone into a self-referring loop, especially if i ended up giving him a card (which i would have, since i wasn't going to give one to QoS. maybe in hindsight it was a mistake, but i wanted to both have the possibility of putting in a successful team, and to identify the bad guy between you and QoS.

 

[twietee]

Convoluted or not - you guys realized we have a deadline?

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

Convoluted or not - you guys realized we have a deadline?

That's now less than an hour away if I have my time zones right and 5 people still need to vote.

Current votes - fixed that I had TechGod, not QoS in Yet to vote in previous list.

Votes
yay: 3 twietee, WoodNUFC, Sythas
nay: 1 FenrisMoonlight

Yet to vote: @Moyank24, @Don't panic, @Koodauw, @Queen of Spades, @mscriv

Voting Log
Post 708 twietee voted for yay
Post 709 WoodNUFC voted for yay
Post 728 Sythas voted for yay
Post 729 FenrisMoonlight voted for nay

 

[Queen of Spades]

I'm really torn on this. But considering it fits within my mscriv, Wood, twietee + 1 unknown, I'll vote YAY.