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A tree falls in the woods question about SIRI...

AbSoluTc said:
I think you all are missing the point here. It's pretty cut and dry. If a tree falls - it makes a noise whether someone is there to hear it or not. You don't need to interpret it any further. It's not that deep even if you try and make it that way.

A tree falls - a sound/wave/vibration is made. Nobody has to be around to hear or know it exists. Just because a human isn't present to hear the event doesn't mean it never happened. Lol. Pretty presumptuous to think that really.

Next you're going to tell me God exists. :rolleyes:

If you really want your mind blown - go look up Schrödinger's cat
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I believe you are missing the point. What you explained does make sense, as it's obvious. But being that it is impossible to prove makes it no more then a guess.

The saying was created for this very purpose.

Just like the double slit experiment I posted above. Basic physics will tell you what SHOULD happen and when observed (or listen too in the tree falling phrase) what should happen does. But when not obversed (or no one there to hear it) the opposite happens.
 
Phil A. said:
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The real question is if a tree falls in a deserted wood with no-one there to observe it, does it exist at all? ;)
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This is also my take on the question. Rather than get into semantics on the meaning of sound and the role of a detector, I interpret the question as a specific example of a broader inquiry of how we define reality. If something cannot be perceived in any way, shape or form, does it exist? Can a reality independent of any observer exist? Of course, to get further into this question, we would have to define the word "exist".
 
cynics said:
I believe you are missing the point. What you explained does make sense, as it's obvious. But being that it is impossible to prove makes it no more then a guess.

The saying was created for this very purpose.

Just like the double slit experiment I posted above. Basic physics will tell you what SHOULD happen and when observed (or listen too in the tree falling phrase) what should happen does. But when not obversed (or no one there to hear it) the opposite happens.
Click to expand...

It's not impossible to prove. A recording device can prove it. No humans needed. However I believe that goes against the point what most are trying to prove, which is - is a sound really made if nothing is there to capture it. Hence, sound is nothing more than an electrical/physical interpretation by said listener or device and would be null if said listener or device was not present. No sound.

A deaf person can feel vibration, yet hear no sound. In theory, a deaf person can hear, just not in the form you and I hear. So, yes, the tree will always make a sound :)
 
This is definitely one of the more interesting threads I've read on MR. I keep swaying back and forth between yes and no.
 
cynics said:
I believe you are missing the point. What you explained does make sense, as it's obvious. But being that it is impossible to prove makes it no more then a guess.

The saying was created for this very purpose.

Just like the double slit experiment I posted above. Basic physics will tell you what SHOULD happen and when observed (or listen too in the tree falling phrase) what should happen does. But when not obversed (or no one there to hear it) the opposite happens.
Click to expand...

The video doesn't make much sense to me. How did the electrons behave as particles when observed and as waves when not observed?
 
dukebound85 said:
No it doesn't

Sound is interpretation of compression waves. To have sound, you need both a source of the waves as well as a receiver. If there is no receiver, there is no sound.
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You are completly clueless :eek:

I fly rc planes and helis -
When I turn on my radio and move the sticks, it transmits a signal.
If I have the receiver on in an aircraft, it receives the signals from the transmitter and sends the movement commands to the servos.
If I take the receiver out of the aircraft and throw it down a sewer, it doesn't mean the transmitter stops sending the signal just because the receiver is gone.
Your logic is incorrect!
 
AbSoluTc said:
It's not impossible to prove. A recording device can prove it. No humans needed. However I believe that goes against the point what most are trying to prove, which is - is a sound really made if nothing is there to capture it. Hence, sound is nothing more than an electrical/physical interpretation by said listener or device and would be null if said listener or device was not present. No sound.

A deaf person can feel vibration, yet hear no sound. In theory, a deaf person can hear, just not in the form you and I hear. So, yes, the tree will always make a sound :)
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A vibration can be made without sound though. Underwater pressure waves for example. Or even you standing on one edge of a trampoline while I quietly move the other side but so you can feel it.

We could argue semantics and even if we come to a conclusion it defeats the purpose of the phrase. It's not really a question.

This made me think of the time I was talking to my little nephew. I asked him what came first the chicken or the egg. He said the egg more specifically the dinosaur egg pre chicken existence. Beauty of an open mind. He was correct of course but he defeated the question but not what I was asking.
 
cynics said:
A vibration can be made without sound though. Underwater pressure waves for example. Or even you standing on one edge of a trampoline while I quietly move the other side but so you can feel it.

We could argue semantics and even if we come to a conclusion it defeats the purpose of the phrase. It's not really a question.

This made me think of the time I was talking to my little nephew. I asked him what came first the chicken or the egg. He said the egg more specifically the dinosaur egg pre chicken existence. Beauty of an open mind. He was correct of course but he defeated the question but not what I was asking.
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Lol, a vibration is nothing more than a wave form. Another version of a sound wave.


Anyways - I get the point :)
 
3bs said:
The video doesn't make much sense to me. How did the electrons behave as particles when observed and as waves when not observed?
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That's it! They just did! Makes no sense to the average person (you and me). But in the world of quantum physics our perception of the world effects it.
 
AbSoluTc said:
Lol, a vibration is nothing more than a wave form. Another version of a sound wave.


Anyways - I get the point :)
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You are playing devils advocate! Lol btw I knew you understood the concept. I'm just bad at explaining it.
 
3bs said:
Hmm well I wouldn't mind reading about it so I can understand
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If you find a good article post it up. It's a pretty popular experiment. Some of the research articles I've read are too far over my head to understand.
 
AbSoluTc said:
I think you all are missing the point here. It's pretty cut and dry. If a tree falls - it makes a noise whether someone is there to hear it or not. You don't need to interpret it any further. It's not that deep even if you try and make it that way.

A tree falls - a sound/wave/vibration is made. Nobody has to be around to hear or know it exists. Just because a human isn't present to hear the event doesn't mean it never happened. Lol. Pretty presumptuous to think that really.

Next you're going to tell me God exists. :rolleyes:

If you really want your mind blown - go look up Schrödinger's cat
Click to expand...

U have no clue what ur even saying. Ur 1000% wrong. How can u even begin to understand quantum physics (schrödinger's cat) when u can't even understand something as simple as this.
 
sulpfiction said:
U have no clue what ur even saying. Ur 1000% wrong. How can u even begin to understand quantum physics (schrödinger's cat) when u can't even understand something as simple as this.
Click to expand...

Yup, no clue about anything I'm saying and 9000000% wrong.

Got it. :)
 
AbSoluTc said:
A tree falls - a sound/wave/vibration is made. Nobody has to be around to hear or know it exists. Just because a human isn't present to hear the event doesn't mean it never happened. Lol. Pretty presumptuous to think that really.

[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]
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No one is saying the tree never fell. No one is denying whether compression waves are made

What is being said is that for it to be considered sound, you need to have a receiver to interpret those waves as sound

No receiver, no sound

However, once those waves hit a receiver, it is sound. Until then, no, just waves of a certain frequency amongst many

Much like you can't interpret radio waves without a receiver
 
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dukebound85 said:
AbSoluTc said:
A tree falls - a sound/wave/vibration is made. Nobody has to be around to hear or know it exists. Just because a human isn't present to hear the event doesn't mean it never happened. Lol. Pretty presumptuous to think that really.

[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]
Click to expand...

No one is saying the tree never fell. No one is denying whether compression waves are made

What is being said is that for it to be considered sound, you need to have a receiver to interpret those waves as sound

No receiver, no sound

However, once those waves hit a receiver, it is sound. Until then, no, just waves of a certain frequency amongst many

Much like you can't interpret radio waves without a receiver
Click to expand...

No one? I am :)
 
So, I suppose that if a person falls in the woods and no one was around to hear it, they do make a sound.
 
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They were there so yes as they subjectively experienced it.
 
dukebound85 said:
No one is saying the tree never fell. No one is denying whether compression waves are made

What is being said is that for it to be considered sound, you need to have a receiver to interpret those waves as sound

No receiver, no sound

However, once those waves hit a receiver, it is sound. Until then, no, just waves of a certain frequency amongst many

Much like you can't interpret radio waves without a receiver
Click to expand...

Yeah - I get that. What I'm saying is - even without a radio, it doesn't change the fact that the radio waves still exist. Just as if there is no receiver for sound, doesn't change the fact that sound waves still exist.

I get it, I do. There are many different ways this question can be interpreted. There are no right or wrong answers. There are many. Anyways, no reason to keep it going. :)
 
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If a tree falls in your mind does it make a noise?
 
Wait, someone actually thinks that the tree just decides not to make a noise? Yeah you're smart
 
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