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So it's okay for a product with the moniker of "Pr" to have a chip that's two years old? Please explain to me your logic.

Yes, it is. The Mac Pro will still be the Mac Pro in mid-2021, and Intel likely won't have a newer chip by then. But it'll be almost two years old.

The iMac Pro is over two years old right now.

The iPad Pro can survive being a year and a half old.

Does it get the job done? Yes. Is it a fairly competitive CPU? Yes, quite so, actually.
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Honestly, I don’t get your sarcasm. If a device with 7 cores gets so hot, my guess is that a device with 8 graphic cores will get even hotter.

That doesn't necessarily follow. GPUs are fairly good at parallelization, so the workload will probably spread well to the eighth core, meaning all seven existing cores don't have to run at as high a clock as before.
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Its not compelling upgrade at all. Not only for those with 2018 but for everyone. Why? You may ask.
Its simple, those that needed the ipad got the 2018 already and those that were waiting until now are most likely ok to wait little longer

That's silly. The iPad Pro 2018 was a massive upgrade over its predecessor (which was already hardly a bad product). Buying one today is still a good choice. The 2020 is a small upgrade over it, but its main audience isn't people who already have the 2018.

as this update proved to us that Apple has something juicier coming later and hence this "gap stop". Kuo has said it and other leaks/rumors point towards it too so yeah Fall is the time when we will get (most likely) the real upgrade. If not then march 2021 but that is probably unlikely. Recently, Kuo has been right pretty much most of the time and so were the other leakers so given this "nonsensical" upgrade its pretty much almost certain that fall will be what we were waiting for. Better chip, better display and finally better aluminium I hope ;)

Be careful not to set yourself up for disappointment. If you want an iPad Pro, just buy one. It's a great product today. Buying based on what might be in a future product isn't a good strategy unless there's something critical missing in the current offering.
 
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My money is still on iPad Pro based on A15X in fall of 2021. That would be the usual ~18-month cycle.
Certainly possible, but there sure have been a lot of rumors for A14X/mini-LED/5G going around for quite some time. Next March would be 12 months.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, really. A14X or A15X, it doesn’t really matter much. Though if A15X would be on 3nm that would be interesting. I haven’t paid that much attention to TSMC’s roadmap.
 
So, are you going to explain how "it works"?
I am no expert either, but here is the layman's explanation: The CPU cores are shared between A12 and A12X, but the cores are not individually manufactured. The chip design for each includes multiple cores. On A12 it's 2 performance cores and 4 low power cores. On A12X it includes 4 performance cores and 4 low power cores. These are all on their respective chips, along with the appropriate supporting circuits, at the time of manufacture. ie. A single A12 chip includes 6 CPU cores and a single A12X chip includes 8 CPU cores. These cores are not slapped together after the fact.

For this reason, you cannot create an A12X out of A12 chips. I suppose you could design it so you could sort of create A12-like chips out of A12X by deactivating various cores on A12X, but they didn't do that because it would cost way too much money, as the A12X chips are way, way bigger and thus much more costly to manufacture. A12X is 10 billion transistors, with a die size of 122 mm2. A12 is 6.9 billion transistors, with a die size of 83 mm2. It's one thing to create a chip where you disable 1 GPU core out of 8, but it's quite a different scenario to create a chip where you need to disable half of the performance cores for your primary market. That's just needlessly wasteful and expensive, if your yields are sufficient.


My point is whether the next version is really worth waiting for, whether it’s 6, 9 or 12 months away. A faster SoC, when the current one already screams, and a better display than the already amazing current display. Basically, two upgrades almost no one really needs 🤷‍♂️
I would love to get a better display. The current iPad Pro has poor to mediocre black levels. (Well, at least the 2018 does. I am assuming the 2020 display is the same as the 2018 display though.)

Mini-LED would probably improve that significantly but I’m not convinced the next iteration will include mini-LED.


Yeah, I don’t graduate from medical school for a few years so confident my 2018 can carry me the next few years. I’m not sure I’ll ever buy another laptop/desktop again unless I absolutely need to for work/school.
I find the iPads and iPad Pros still insufficient for MS Office, but maybe that will change with the added mouse and touchpad support. Luckily, I don’t need to use Office much anymore on my mobile devices.
 
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You are right but to me as "unreasonable" as it may sound to some I am not getting iPad until they improve the structural rigidity ie. stronger aluminium.
Some agree, some disagree but for that price point I don't want to risk it. So yeah, this update could have been much better but Apple chose not to do anything except minor things.
And for that reason I'm out for now. I wish it was different as my Air 2 is really showing its age but unfortunately it is what it is.

Yes, it is. The Mac Pro will still be the Mac Pro in mid-2021, and Intel likely won't have a newer chip by then. But it'll be almost two years old.

The iMac Pro is over two years old right now.

The iPad Pro can survive being a year and a half old.

Does it get the job done? Yes. Is it a fairly competitive CPU? Yes, quite so, actually.
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That doesn't necessarily follow. GPUs are fairly good at parallelization, so the workload will probably spread well to the eighth core, meaning all seven existing cores don't have to run at as high a clock as before.
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That's silly. The iPad Pro 2018 was a massive upgrade over its predecessor (which was already hardly a bad product). Buying one today is still a good choice. The 2020 is a small upgrade over it, but its main audience isn't people who already have the 2018.



Be careful not to set yourself up for disappointment. If you want an iPad Pro, just buy one. It's a great product today. Buying based on what might be in a future product isn't a good strategy unless there's something critical missing in the current offering.
 
Thats what I've been saying since the release. 2018 vs 2020 is just almost nothing. Sure, people will mention double storage to start with, double ram on lower models and as of now useless wifi 6. And yet, this is what we get.
Its literally stop gap. The proper upgrade is coming later (hopefully fall) but this was a ****** one ;)

A stop 'crap?'

Azrael.
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You are right but to me as "unreasonable" as it may sound to some I am not getting iPad until they improve the structural rigidity ie. stronger aluminium.
Some agree, some disagree but for that price point I don't want to risk it. So yeah, this update could have been much better but Apple chose not to do anything except minor things.
And for that reason I'm out for now. I wish it was different as my Air 2 is really showing its age but unfortunately it is what it is.

Yeah. PC World. UK. I always like pushing and pulling on stuff (no jokes, please) before I buy. Furniture. iPads. etc.

11 inch iPad Pro. Sturdy enough. Tried pressing down on opposite corners.

The 12.9 is ridiculously bendy though. Pressing down on opposite corners? BEEENNNNND!

Azrael.
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You could be waiting a long time for that one, though.

Depends on how much 'kick back' they get from the issue. If the whining gets louder they may fix it sooner.

Mind you, given the yawn inducing fixing of the Mac Pro and the outright denial of the Macbook keyboards...

Azrael.
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Certainly possible, but there sure have been a lot of rumors for A14X/mini-LED/5G going around for quite some time. Next March would be 12 months.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, really. A14X or A15X, it doesn’t really matter much. Though if A15X would be on 3nm that would be interesting. I haven’t paid that much attention to TSMC’s roadmap.

It's the one that many wanted. But it's the waiting game. 'A-gain.'

Money for old rope, Apple.

Azrael.
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Yes, it is. The Mac Pro will still be the Mac Pro in mid-2021, and Intel likely won't have a newer chip by then. But it'll be almost two years old.

The iMac Pro is over two years old right now.

The iPad Pro can survive being a year and a half old.

Does it get the job done? Yes. Is it a fairly competitive CPU? Yes, quite so, actually.
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That doesn't necessarily follow. GPUs are fairly good at parallelization, so the workload will probably spread well to the eighth core, meaning all seven existing cores don't have to run at as high a clock as before.
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That's silly. The iPad Pro 2018 was a massive upgrade over its predecessor (which was already hardly a bad product). Buying one today is still a good choice. The 2020 is a small upgrade over it, but its main audience isn't people who already have the 2018.


Be careful not to set yourself up for disappointment. If you want an iPad Pro, just buy one. It's a great product today. Buying based on what might be in a future product isn't a good strategy unless there's something critical missing in the current offering.

The iPad is a decent product in 2018. But tech' moves on. People expect more (and we know what kind of 'more') two years later. At least they updated parts of the machine. The iPad is a great device. But, like the iPad 3? This is a 'must miss.' Wait for the next one. Some that need it now? Why did you wait two years?

Two year cycles.

iMac. 8 gigs of ram. Platter drives. Medicore low end gpus. Massive borders. It's really in need of a lick of paint. And that design is ten years old.

iMac Pro. Drop it down to £2k-ish... Phase out the silver model. replace the Vega withe 5700XT. Slim those borders.

The Mac Pro? *giggles. Great case. But that price...reality warping. Put a non-exotic board in. Latest mainstream desktop. A Radeon 5700XT. An 8-10 core intel (pending release.) Just 'normal' stuff you find on PCs. And a 5k external monitor. And a sane price. G3 tower days fondly remembered.

I liked Apple when they updated stuff more often in Jobs era.

Azrael.
 
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So.. the thing that I bought last year has a GPU core purposefully disabled? Isnt that kind of like the battery thing they were sued for?

No, disabling part of chips is very very common in the CPU and GPU world. For instance, Intel has all sorts of different variants of desktop chips but they are all the exact same silicone design just with parts enabled/disabled. In some cases the disabled parts are defective and doing this is to help them increase the yield (or number of salable chips) from one silicone wafer. Other times it's used to meet demand for a certain level of chip. There are other characteristics that can be different too, some will have different max clock rates or run a little hotter than others. All of this is tested on the chip and they are "binned" to match what their expected capability.
 
My money is still on iPad Pro based on A15X in fall of 2021. That would be the usual ~18-month cycle.

The iPad Pro’s update cycle is predictable, but not. An A13X is non-existent, an A14 is guaranteed for the iPhone is a foregone conclusion, but an A14X is not, although my money is on an A14X in Q1-Q2 of 2021.

Apple doesn’t have anything to prove hardware-wise at this point. iPadOS, on the other hand, needs to show meaningful progress at WWDC.
 
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Intel and AMD are doomed. Soon desktops and laptops will be powered by Apple SoC.
 
The 2020 models key features are the new camera system and the intro of the new magic keyboard. 12.9" 5G model with A14X supposedly coming this fall. Maybe fall 2021 is when we get a more substantial upgrade.

No one is forced to purchase any of the new models.
 
You are right but to me as "unreasonable" as it may sound to some I am not getting iPad until they improve the structural rigidity ie. stronger aluminium.
Nothing unreasonable about that, don’t buy what you don’t want has ALWAYS been excellent advice.
 
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The only reason I got the new one is that I wanted to upgrade my 11-inch pro to the larger screen. There really is no difference in speed.
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The 2020 models key features are the new camera system and the intro of the new magic keyboard. 12.9" 5G model with A14X supposedly coming this fall. Maybe fall 2021 is when we get a more substantial upgrade.

No one is forced to purchase any of the new models.


I highly doubt this. Maybe 2 years from now.
 
Very true but some people will defend Apple regardless of the situation. To me the current design has some weak points which are elevated by using softer version of aluminium. That needs to improve in order for me to buy it. Everything else I'm fine with but seeing that I hold my devices for long (I still use Air 2 and iPhone 6) I'm not risking it as any device I get needs to be as solid as it can be. iPhone 6 will hopefully be updated tomorrow with new SE/9 and Air 2 hopefully in fall. I could actually get the current gen but not with this design weakness.

So yeah, voting with my wallet and if Apple wants my money then this needs to improve :)

Nothing unreasonable about that, don’t buy what you don’t want has ALWAYS been excellent advice.
 
So yeah, voting with my wallet and if Apple wants my money then this needs to improve :)
The most anyone could reasonably say is that it’s unlikely that Apple will make it much more durable. That’s not a defense of Apple, more a recognition of Apple’s inability to understand some of their customers.
 
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Certainly possible, but there sure have been a lot of rumors for A14X/mini-LED/5G going around for quite some time. Next March would be 12 months.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, really. A14X or A15X, it doesn’t really matter much. Though if A15X would be on 3nm that would be interesting. I haven’t paid that much attention to TSMC’s roadmap.
At 3nm aren’t we getting to a point of diminishing returns, significantly so at that point? I guess we can continue to trend smaller until we approach individual atomic radii.
 
Just make me happy and put stronger aluminium just like with 6S! That will make me buy on the spot : )

The most anyone could reasonably say is that it’s unlikely that Apple will make it much more durable. That’s not a defense of Apple, more a recognition of Apple’s inability to understand some of their customers.
 
I will chime in. The 2020 update to the iPad Pro doesn’t need a CPU upgrade. The 2018 model performs at a high level already, in some cases better than some of Apple’s own laptops. Sure, we who follow Apple tech closely would like to see Apple stuff an A13X into the iPad Pro, if for nothing else than having a chip that furthers the performance gap compared to Intel chips, but in reality it’s not currently needed.

And much like with how I’ve done my iPhone upgrades every other year, I see no reason to upgrade to a 2020 version of the 12.9”. I’ll wait for the next big upgrade cycle.
I don't get the Apple apologetics. I really don't.
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The chip is brand new, based on a chip that’s a year and four months old.

It’s a better iPad Pro than Apple was selling three weeks ago, at a better price. That’s a win no matter how you slice it.

How would no update be better? Those who buy before the next version would only have the 3rd gen.
It isn't brand new. It's the A-12 series from two years ago with slightly bumped specs. Feels like Apple is starting to go Intel on us.
 
Geez, it's not like it's a piece of crap. There are more pressing things to complain/worry about, like being able to afford rent/mortgage and food.
 
Geez, it's not like it's a piece of crap. There are more pressing things to complain/worry about, like being able to afford rent/mortgage and food.
Hmm... Then why are you in this thread, which is to about the structure of A12Z and consequently the innards of the 2020 iPad Pro? :confused:

I always find it strange that people show up in these threads about computing devices on computer forums, just to say we shouldn't be discussing the contents of these threads about computing devices on computer forums.
 
Hmm... Then why are you in this thread, which is to about the structure of A12Z and consequently the innards of the 2020 iPad Pro? :confused:

I always find it strange that people show up in these threads about computing devices on computer forums, just to say we shouldn't be discussing the contents of these threads about computing devices on computer forums.
I have one and it is a good device. Never said nobody should be discussing but complaining about the lack of improvement but it is a small bump to the device to probably use up extra chips that were produced. It is not like small improvements to devices is anything new to Apple.
 
50% more RAM, double the base storage, new camera, WiFi 6, etc.

I got the 2018 in February. Not even sure if I ever tested the camera. Cool if you only have a iPad but I’d guess most don’t buy an iPad for camera or use it that much either.

I might check out the new keyboard though
 
Hmm... Then why are you in this thread, which is to about the structure of A12Z and consequently the innards of the 2020 iPad Pro? :confused:

I always find it strange that people show up in these threads about computing devices on computer forums, just to say we shouldn't be discussing the contents of these threads about computing devices on computer forums.
Just did something similar to that the other day. 😉😂

but on-topic... this is a great move on apple, since it’s most likely very close to the same process to the iPad Pro 3. This gives them an advantage over some other companies because of cheaper manufacturing and parts, while still being a new media consumption product to sell to folks in quarantine during a zombie-apocalypse.
Let’s face it, even with the crazy price, these suckers sell pretty darn well.

K.
 
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