A14X Chip for First Apple Silicon Mac and New iPad Pro to Enter Mass Production in Fourth Quarter

[bluecoast]

Apple won't fail if they start off on the low end, I can't imagine anyone is thinking that as we know CPU in the dev kit is performing very well. What will be disappointing is if the Apple CPU is only in the low end from day one as it will continue to push this perception that ARM is only for the low end machines. A halo machine with the best of what Apple can do with ARM(That is more than just matching the current crop of Intel CPU's) is what I am sure a lot of people are looking forward to seeing. We already had Lightroom and Photoshop demo'ed... they aren't for a MacBook Air.

Agreed. Perhaps we’ll see not just a MacBook but a ‘Mac’ too (successor to the iMac) to show the beginnings of the journey that they are on and how it will scale up on both form factors.

This must all be costing Apple a fortune though and you can’t blame them for starting off with the model that will sell the most - and start to show a RoI to investors immediately.

 

[Piggie]

Do you think this will be "Blazing Fast" as some outlets/people are suggesting.
Or do you think the harsh reality will be that it's REALLY fast at the few specific apps and tasks which the chip has been tweaked to perform well at.
but when it comes to being put against a general CPU and confronted by general apps it's not going to look anything special at all?
And rather than admit it's just ok-ish, the Apps will simply get the blame for not being optimised for the CPU ?

Personally, if we are going to put it up against other CPU's from other brands is needs to be able to handle anything that's thrown at it, not just a limited number of specially optimised apps.

Thoughts?

 

[Spungoflex]

I feel like people are over hyped and maybe hoping Apple breaks out of Moore’s Law or something. But by god physics will prevail xD

AMD’s rise has been a beautiful thing to see. I have faith that Apple can start beating the crap out of Intel as well.

 

[Spungoflex]

Do you think this will be "Blazing Fast" as some outlets/people are suggesting.
Or do you think the harsh reality will be that it's REALLY fast at the few specific apps and tasks which the chip has been tweaked to perform well at.
but when it comes to being put against a general CPU and confronted by general apps it's not going to look anything special at all?
And rather than admit it's just ok-ish, the Apps will simply get the blame for not being optimised for the CPU ?

Personally, if we are going to put it up against other CPU's from other brands is needs to be able to handle anything that's thrown at it, not just a limited number of specially optimised apps.

Thoughts?

I’m expecting it to trounce Intel chips. AMD already does that on both the desktop and now laptop.

 

[chucker23n1]

AMD's 4800/4900HS have been in the market for a while now (January 2020 IIRC). Until the Tiger Lake announcement AMD was about as fast single-core as Intel's best laptop CPU offerings so to say they had caught up is not entirely wrong.

For U CPUs: Even Ice Lake is significantly faster than Renoir at single-threaded tasks, though. AMD can pack more CPU cores, yes, but per core, they’re not at all caught up.

For H CPUs, yes, it’s different. Intel is still on 14nm there, and Comet Lake is kind of a bummer. It’ll be interesting to see how Rocket Lake-H does, if it does get the backported Tiger Lake microarchitecture.

This has changed now, of course, but surely AMD hasn't been standing still all those months. And while Tiger Lake CPUs are faster single-core (according to Intel) they have only released dual core and quad core chips so... probably not going to be great in multi core.

Not according to Intel, but according to Geekbench. And given that Ice Lake already is (just look at any 2020 MacBook), that’s easy enough to believe.

But yes, Tiger Lake doesn’t offer a lot of cores. But most tasks aren’t multi-core.

 

[Jyby]

AMD’s rise has been a beautiful thing to see. I have faith that Apple can start beating the crap out of Intel as well.

Eh its ok... Intel will have the same results once it shrinks it's process. If Intel was also on 5nm or even 7nm I bet they would smoke AMD and maybe even Apple. ARM is a bit special though because the implementors almost always customize it like crazy.

 

[LFC2020]

So the 13 will be mid 2021?

‘Current 13" design this year with apple silicon, 14" first half of next year. 🥺

 

[Alan Wynn]

There's also no API to signify that applications should avoid using too much data.

That and no limit on usage that would have an impact on battery life.

Anyone who has ever used an iPad with cellular, or a cellular-equipped notebook (Dell, Lenovo, etc.) knows how great they are. The plans are affordable too, at least in the US.

I have had iPad data plans longer than I have had iPads. I had a friend at AT&T and was told that it was going to be announced that they were dropping the $30 unlimited plan that next week. I went to the AT&T store, picked up 4 SIMs, borrowed a friend’s iPad with cellular, created accounts and then held on to the SIMs until we got our iPads a month or so later.

 

[ruka.snow]

Eh its ok... Intel will have the same results once it shrinks it's process. If Intel was also on 5nm or even 7nm I bet they would smoke AMD and maybe even Apple. ARM is a bit special though because the implementors almost always customize it like crazy.

Intels process is already equivalent. AMD is doing so well just now because the have a better design just now, not unlike when the Athlon 64 2.2 GHz was ahead of the P4 3.4 GHz.

 

[Jyby]

Does Trip Mode set that? I assume Instant Hotspot sets it automatically?

Trip Mode only seems to turn on and off internet access for apps using a kext? I didn't see much else on their website nor have I tried their app

But I did test cellular hotspot and it does turn on isExpensive when Mac OS connects to an iPhone Hotspot for example.
Probably all you would need.

Swift Playground:

import Network
var monitor = NWPathMonitor()
monitor.pathUpdateHandler = { path in
    if path.isConstrained {
        // Path uses an interface in Low Data Mode.
        print("Constrained")
    }
    if path.isExpensive {
        // Path uses an interface that is considered expensive, such as Cellular or a Personal Hotspot.
        print("Expensive")
    }
}
monitor.start(queue: .main)

 

[jlocker]

I’m expecting it to trounce Intel chips. AMD already does that on both the desktop and now laptop.

The Mac computers with the Axx processors will not be truly fast until the can have native apps and not use Rosetta II for code execution. Am I going to get one down the road? Yes, but I have a couple of year left on my 2019 MacBook Pro 16 and by then the architecture and software code will have matured and be running at peak performance.

 

[docbop]

Based on Apple's history with major changes in hardware or OS I would say Apple silicon might be ready to take seriously when they hit A16 or A17 by then they will have enough real world experience to see was desktops and laptop need for serious work.

 

[richinaus]

Based on Apple's history with major changes in hardware or OS I would say Apple silicon might be ready to take seriously when they hit A16 or A17 by then they will have enough real world experience to see was desktops and laptop need for serious work.

Not this time.
Don’t you wonder what they have been developing for the last 5 years?

It’s not like this just popped in their heads in May and decided to announce in June.

 

[Useless Touchbar]

12" Macbook? Well, I hope it's a much-improved designed over the previous 12". People will be hesitant to buy it if it has butterfly keyboard

 

[Piggie]

I will admit I get tired of the constant.
OMG look how fast the A whatever chip runs geekbench or whatever on a phone or tablet compared to the intel chip on my macbook.

Well yes, but it's only having to run a tiny OS with minimal things to slow it down.
I'm not for one moment suggesting the Apple Arm chip is slow, but you are not comparing like for like.

Perhaps a custom intel chip in a ipad with software specifically coded for it would be fast also?

Lets see the Apple Arm chip running a full fat Mac OS (I presume it will be a full fat Mac OS and not some trimmed down version)?
And have it running any apps, non optimised for Apple Arm running on it, to see how it compares to an Intel chip which has to run anything you can throw at it.

Trust me, I want Apple Arm to be a screaming powerhouse.
I'm just aware we've not yet compared the Best from Intel against the best from Apple yet, running the same things under the same load.
Until that happens......... Well........... Then we shall see if Apple can overcome the physical issues Intel and also AMD are struggling with to make CPU's much faster.

Does Apple have more smart and clever people that can overcome these same issues both these other companies have struggled with for years and years?
We'll see........

 

[smulji]

Since the 2018 iPad Pro their silicon on those iPads has been proven to be as capable or more than a computer (laptop or desktop), there's plenty of evidence for that on benchmarks and test doing the same actions, like video editing 4K movies in the iPad vs a MacBook Pro, and the iPad had incredible results

During the WWDC keynote, Apple specifically stated that they're developing a family of SoC's for the Mac and they are just going to use the SoC's that are in iPhones and iPads.

 

[cmaier]

I will admit I get tired of the constant.
OMG look how fast the A whatever chip runs geekbench or whatever on a phone or tablet compared to the intel chip on my macbook.

Well yes, but it's only having to run a tiny OS with minimal things to slow it down.
I'm not for one moment suggesting the Apple Arm chip is slow, but you are not comparing like for like.

Perhaps a custom intel chip in a ipad with software specifically coded for it would be fast also?

Lets see the Apple Arm chip running a full fat Mac OS (I presume it will be a full fat Mac OS and not some trimmed down version)?
And have it running any apps, non optimised for Apple Arm running on it, to see how it compares to an Intel chip which has to run anything you can throw at it.

Trust me, I want Apple Arm to be a screaming powerhouse.
I'm just aware we've not yet compared the Best from Intel against the best from Apple yet, running the same things under the same load.
Until that happens......... Well........... Then we shall see if Apple can overcome the physical issues Intel and also AMD are struggling with to make CPU's much faster.

Does Apple have more smart and clever people that can overcome these same issues both these other companies have struggled with for years and years?
We'll see........

First, ios is not a “tiny OS.”
Second ,as long as we are talking about not comparing like for like, remember that the EXISTING a12/a13 beat intel per-core with horrible cooling solutions. Stick them in a desktop or laptop with a big heat pipe and potentially a fan, and they will destroy intel.

 

[chucker23n1]

I will admit I get tired of the constant.
OMG look how fast the A whatever chip runs geekbench or whatever on a phone or tablet compared to the intel chip on my macbook.

Well yes, but it's only having to run a tiny OS with minimal things to slow it down.

Run Instruments, Activity Monitor, connect to an iPhone. Look at that list of processes and think about “tiny OS”. It’s not. It’s very closely related to macOS.

 

[wbeasley]

so if ipads (and new MacBooks) contain the same chips, similar memory amounts, both support bluetooth keybaords and mice... what's stopping Apple from boot into EITHER MacOS or iPadOS?

the ability to use either OS to suit the task at hand surely has more potential than BootCamp ever did.

the universal code base that covers all hardware and app store purchases that let you buy universal software.

yer or no?

 

[PickUrPoison]

12" Macbook? Well, I hope it's a much-improved designed over the previous 12". People will be hesitant to buy it if it has butterfly keyboard

I think I heard something about a 4th generation butterfly.

 

[mannyvel]

Does Apple have more smart and clever people that can overcome these same issues both these other companies have struggled with for years and years?
We'll see........

It's not about being smart and clever, it's about focus. Apple has been focusing it's chips on power/performance for years, because it only has two markets: iPhones and iPads. Intel and AMD have a huge number of price/performance points to deal with. Every one is a tradeoff. Apple doesn't are about the server side. Apple doesn't care about workstations yet. Apple doesn't care about the data center or the cloud. Apple doesn't care about OEMs fighting for allocation. Apple doesn't care about cannibalizing.

All Apple cared about was performance-per-watt. At some point they started talking about desktop chips, so now maybe they think about 3 things instead of 2. That's still a few orders of magnitude less than what Intel and AMD has to think about. And they don't have to manage customer requirements, because they are their own customer.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

All they have to do then, is to beat the i3 & i5s in the MBA, make the integrated graphics better and the battery life better (and make it fanless).

Well beating the cooling of the 2020 MBA will be easy, but that's not Intel's fault. Now I understand why Apple didn't even bother putting a heat pipe on the 2020 MBA.... so they can rave about how much cooler the AS MBA's run

 

[AppliedMicro]

They said “expect to ship by the end of this year”... Given the lead times on these I still think they are on track

They wouldn't have announced it among this epidemic if they weren't.

I guess delivering on their promise (to ship) can literally mean in the last two weeks of the year - and possibly in limited quantities and/or configurations. The product will still be orderable for the christmas holiday period.

There's been precedent (Mac Pro 2013 comes to mind, and some iMac or Cinema Display refresh, if my memory doesn't fail me).

 

[firewood]

and maybe push computers out of the lul they have been in for the last decade.

What lull? The new Cerebrus chip has 850,000 processor cores. Even the Google TPU3's have 2048 processor cores. Thus 24 is a silly number. If your employer wants its staff to be productive with 100's of docker images, they need to install a private cloud with 1000's of cores.

Normal users are limited by Amdahl's law and memory bandwidth on their local compute.

 

[smulji]

I think I heard something about a 4th generation butterfly.

I heard that rumor as well.