can you elaborate more on this illusion of nanometers you’re referencing? just curious
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'A19' and 'M5' Chips Discovered on Apple Backend Server
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No.. Often times future chips are in concurrent design and development. A17, A18, A19, and A20 Are likely all in design currently.
it takes significantly longer than 1 year to design, fabricate, update, change, etc etc on these chips.
A18 is likely in fabrication engineering sample stage already. and will be updates until launch, while A19 could have limited samples but is likely in design still.
on that same page farther out ones are likely in process to
Intel had chips in planning at least 5 years ahead.
Microsoft had Windows features and versions in development 5 years ahead.
Apple is always working on new versions of OS X 2 years head.
Apple always works on two iPhone models ahead
So, this really should not be surprising us.
Microsoft had Windows features and versions in development 5 years ahead.
Apple is always working on new versions of OS X 2 years head.
Apple always works on two iPhone models ahead
So, this really should not be surprising us.
Even much simpler processors (such as the Pentium Pro, the first out-of-order processor Intel ever designed back in the mid 1990s), took four years to build from the drawing board to production. They also spent well over a year actually getting it ready to produce even after all of the designs were finished, and even then, it wasn't really mass produced for the consumer market (e.g. not enterprise customers) until the Pentium 2 where they were able to address some additional difficulties with manufacturing and were able to make the manufacturing process efficient enough to ship en-masse.
That was back when processors had several million transistors and that was considered industry leading. Now, we have tens of billions of transistors in a chip, so almost certainly, Apple is working at least three to four years in advance, if not longer.
The fact that these processors exist nominally doesn't necessarily mean that they are ready. It doesn't even mean that the designs are finished (in fact, it's likely that they aren't). It just means that they are in progress, and that's not surprising given that these things take several years to make.
That was back when processors had several million transistors and that was considered industry leading. Now, we have tens of billions of transistors in a chip, so almost certainly, Apple is working at least three to four years in advance, if not longer.
The fact that these processors exist nominally doesn't necessarily mean that they are ready. It doesn't even mean that the designs are finished (in fact, it's likely that they aren't). It just means that they are in progress, and that's not surprising given that these things take several years to make.
orangera1n here, I'd like to clarify that 0x8130 is NOT A19, but is A17 instead. 0x8150 IS A19.
References to what are believed to be the "A19" and "M5" Apple silicon chips have been discovered in official Apple code.
The references, found by Twitter user "@_orangera1n," indicate the existence of a large number of unreleased Apple chips. Following the trends of Apple's chip identifiers, the latest discoveries are believed to correspond to the "A19," "M5 Pro," "M5 Max," and "M5 Ultra" chips, suggesting that work on these processors is underway.
Apple's Tatsu Signing Server (TSS) verifies firmware files by issuing unique certificates called APTickets, which contain specific details, with no third-party logs. In an effort to identify unreleased ApChipIDs, TSS requests were made for every possible identifier. Those that did not return an invalid identifier seemingly point to an unreleased chip.
Among the discovered ApChipIDs, the identifier 0x8130 is believed to correspond to the A19, while 0x6050, 0x6051, and 0x6052 are believed to represent the M5 Pro, M5 Max, and M5 Ultra, respectively. This inference is made based on the logical sequence and patterns of previously released chips.
Assuming that Apple continues to release new iPhone models every year, the A19 could debut in 2025's iPhone 17 Pro models. For now, Apple's first 3nm chip, the A17 Bionic, is believed to be just weeks away from announcement in the iPhone 15 Pro models, sporting major performance and efficiency improvements over all of the Apple silicon chips from recent years that are based on TSMC's 5nm process.
Article Link: 'A19' and 'M5' Chips Discovered on Apple Backend Server
Agreed. Chief Architect at AMD on discussing Zen 3 being released with Ian Cutress at Anandtech Oct 2021 also mentioned design stages from Zen 4 to Zen 8 have already started and added all these preliminary designs change considerably before nearing their first samples stage and after.
With as prudish as they are, I wonder if Apple will change the name or skip the M8 altogether.
The fact that the server accepts IDs for these chips does NOT mean that the chip exists. It only means the people who created the server were planning ahead. Even if the server sees and logs a few of these IDs, all it means it they are testing the server.
Remember when digital cameras were new. There was a "megapixel race" because consumers did not understand the technology, except the "more megapixels is better". This is still kind of going on, but we don't see the number on a huge sticker on the camera anymore. Transistor radios were like that too. They would print the number of transistors in the radio on the front, more is better, right? They do these things because it is very easy to understand.
But at some point, consumers find out there are more important ways to describe the product.
Rumor: Apple will debut the A30 in 2036 in the iPhone 28 Pro. You heard it here first.
References to what are believed to be the "A19" and "M5" Apple silicon chips have been discovered in official Apple code.
The references, found by Twitter user "@_orangera1n," indicate the existence of a large number of unreleased Apple chips. Following the trends of Apple's chip identifiers, the latest discoveries are believed to correspond to the "A19," "M5 Pro," "M5 Max," and "M5 Ultra" chips, suggesting that work on these processors is underway.
Apple's Tatsu Signing Server (TSS) verifies firmware files by issuing unique certificates called APTickets, which contain specific details, with no third-party logs. In an effort to identify unreleased ApChipIDs, TSS requests were made for every possible identifier. Those that did not return an invalid identifier seemingly point to an unreleased chip.
Among the discovered ApChipIDs, the identifier 0x8150 is believed to correspond to the A19, while 0x6050, 0x6051, and 0x6052 are believed to represent the M5 Pro, M5 Max, and M5 Ultra, respectively. This inference is made based on the logical sequence and patterns of previously released chips.
Assuming that Apple continues to release new iPhone models every year, the A19 could debut in 2025's iPhone 17 Pro models. For now, Apple's first 3nm chip, the A17 Bionic, is believed to be just weeks away from announcement in the iPhone 15 Pro models, sporting major performance and efficiency improvements over all of the Apple silicon chips from recent years that are based on TSMC's 5nm process.
Article Link: 'A19' and 'M5' Chips Discovered on Apple Backend Server
That article was an excellent read. Highly recommend.
When customers “find out” it’s usually by way of another company attempting to sell a new narrative, though. If they’re lucky a certain percentage of customers connect with their message enough to make them profitable. If they’re REALLY lucky, then what they define is what all marketing for that particular type of device/service goes by for a number of years.
Until the next company comes along with THEIR marketing budget in an attempt to understand why THEIR product/service is better than others.
It is a pretty simple idea that Apple has a roadmap in terms of what they can reasonably change in this iteration versus the next few iterations. The software people are certainly jockeying for what they want and need for performance, and only so many changes can be implemented in one go.
Ahhh, I remember the time it was all about the MHz....until it wasn't.
Back in the day I had dual Athlon XP1800's running at 155MHz FSB for a 2.48GHz CPU clock speed. Blowing the L5 bridge on each CPU with a 9V battery to enable dual processing support is crazy looking back at it. The reality is, my iPhone is probably faster in every way.
Don’t stop there, please, enlighten us with the identifier, like the article does.
Well that’s settled it, M3 is already in the vintage list before it’s released!
I'm excited to imagine how fast the M5 chips will be. However, it could simply put a placeholder in the database. Obviously there will be an M5 someday - doesn't mean there is one currently.
Do you know what they will call the M6 Super-Duper Apex Extreme Max Ultra in Paris? The M6 Super-Duper Apex Extreme Royale (Pulp Fiction reference).
Apple really needs to dial in their naming conventions. It's a little ridiculous and inherently doesn't make a lot of sense.
I remember having a conversation with a very high-up Samsung executive one day at the launch of some of their original HDTVs and Blu Ray player. He basically said that they are 5-6 years ahead. So what is released today, started being worked on 5-6 years earlier. I doubt it would be much different for Apple. It’s highly unlikely that things like the M2 chip was being worked on right up until the very weeks before announcement. No, it would have been finished 18-24 months prior and the M3 would have been underway, even the M4. Hardware takes a long time to plan, design, and produce. Not to mention the software and marketing beyond that. This is only more poignant for a company like Apple who now creates everything top to bottom.
Lol A19 and M5.. we haven’t even seen A17 yet. I wonder what happened to A18 ? 🤔
But jokes aside, nothing surprising here. I’m pretty sure Apple is already working on the next 2-3 generations. They’ve been always doing that.
But jokes aside, nothing surprising here. I’m pretty sure Apple is already working on the next 2-3 generations. They’ve been always doing that.