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A9 Chip Manufacturing Split 60/40 Between TSMC and Samsung, Not Segmented by Device Size
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Extremetech is good, but aren't experts in the semiconductor sector. Here is an article summarizing IEDM papers from end of 2014. Basically it compares Intel, TSMC, and IBM 14/16nm. (Samsung/Global Foundry 14nm is essentially a variation of the IBM 14nm process. All part of a consortium formed to compete against TSMC about 10-15 years ago). Quite technical, but hopefully you can get some useful information from it.
https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/4110-iedm-tsmc-intel-ibm-14-16nm-processes.html
TSMC 16nm process roadmap was/is the following:
1st generation (2013/2014): TSMC 16FF (vanilla) - performance wasn't great and too expensive. Apple may have had test chips on 16nm, while ordering volume production on TSMC N20 (20nm) for the A8/A8X.
2nd generation (2014/2015): TSMC 16FF+ - performance and yield much better. Apple first one to order volume production. Then will be followed by Nvidia and AMD for the next generation GPU (publically confirmed).
3rd generation or variant? (2015/2016): TSMC 16FF Compact (16FFC) - projected additional 50% power saving. (Possibly smaller metal pitch, which will results in much smaller chip?) Targeting Apple Watch processor? or the A10?
Meanwhile, TSMC N10 (10nm) and N7 (7nm) is also being developed in parallel.
https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/4110-iedm-tsmc-intel-ibm-14-16nm-processes.html
TSMC 16nm process roadmap was/is the following:
1st generation (2013/2014): TSMC 16FF (vanilla) - performance wasn't great and too expensive. Apple may have had test chips on 16nm, while ordering volume production on TSMC N20 (20nm) for the A8/A8X.
2nd generation (2014/2015): TSMC 16FF+ - performance and yield much better. Apple first one to order volume production. Then will be followed by Nvidia and AMD for the next generation GPU (publically confirmed).
3rd generation or variant? (2015/2016): TSMC 16FF Compact (16FFC) - projected additional 50% power saving. (Possibly smaller metal pitch, which will results in much smaller chip?) Targeting Apple Watch processor? or the A10?
Meanwhile, TSMC N10 (10nm) and N7 (7nm) is also being developed in parallel.
Quick history of TSMC. TSMC was founded by Texas Instruments, Philips Electronics NV of Netherlands, and Taiwanese government agency ITRI, in the mid 1980s. TI and Philips have since sold their shares in TSMC. However the companies have maintained close relationship particularly TSMC and Philips NV. While most European electronic companies have thrown their support behind Global Foundaries/Samsung/IBM consortium. TSMC and Philips NV continues a close technology and business relationship, having co-founded new semiconductor such as NXP, the makers of Apple M7, M8, (M9?) motion processor.
TSMC is know as a "pure-play" foundry, which means it only manufacture semiconductor for clients and produce, market, or sell chip product on their own. While Intel and Samsung could produce chip for clients and compete against their clients with their own product at the same time. Reason why most companies, such as Apple, prefers to work with TSMC to avoid leaking of trade secrets to competitors and avoid conflict of interest. TSMC currently holds a 60-70% market share on contract semiconductor manufacturing.
TSMC is know as a "pure-play" foundry, which means it only manufacture semiconductor for clients and produce, market, or sell chip product on their own. While Intel and Samsung could produce chip for clients and compete against their clients with their own product at the same time. Reason why most companies, such as Apple, prefers to work with TSMC to avoid leaking of trade secrets to competitors and avoid conflict of interest. TSMC currently holds a 60-70% market share on contract semiconductor manufacturing.
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Samsung's 14nm process was exactly the same as the one from TSMC, which also lead by the directing executive that went to Samsung, that part is pretty clear to the point.
having trouble installing the wang utility on my 2nd iphone6s. i have installed it on the first and confirmed samsung chipset, but the other one doesn't want to install.
i clicked on install in safari link and it will load it for a while (sometimes go all the way around) but popup with "Unable to Download App" and "CPU Identifier could not be installed at this time".
I went back to install it a second time on the other phone and it installs fine. Thinking it's a local problem to the phone, any settings that might be causing this? NB: I did a reset and delete of all content as this one was already going back to Apple.
The profile option isn't even there because it won't install at all, running 9.0.1 and using a separate icloud account. No sim, but didn't work with sim in either.
i clicked on install in safari link and it will load it for a while (sometimes go all the way around) but popup with "Unable to Download App" and "CPU Identifier could not be installed at this time".
I went back to install it a second time on the other phone and it installs fine. Thinking it's a local problem to the phone, any settings that might be causing this? NB: I did a reset and delete of all content as this one was already going back to Apple.
The profile option isn't even there because it won't install at all, running 9.0.1 and using a separate icloud account. No sim, but didn't work with sim in either.
Thats why I think they should split parts from different manufacturers across different models, better for the customer in some ways but not for Apple as it gives them more risk of not delivering
You can also use System Status (not free) straight from AppStore.
Details tab -> Device information
Look for entry "type".
6S:
n71ap = Samsung
n71map = TSMC
6S+:
n66ap = Samsung
n66map = TSMC
So whats the verdict here boys and girls, is one better than the other?
Was anyone able to establish if battery is better on the samsung?
Was anyone able to establish if battery is better on the samsung?
unfortunately i can't say for sure. i have two identical i6s's and one is definitely samsung and i have suspicions that the other is TSMC (but can't install the free app). reason being, for the few days i used the TSMC one i wasn't impressed by battery life (it felt like it drained faster than it should). overnight with everything disabled (push notes, btooth etc.) still drained 8% my old iphone4 would only lose a few %!
it feels warmer as well, even with light use. it's no secret that the difference in manufacturing process makes for cooler and lower power consumption. with anything you can't really tell until you have both side by side, and spend some time with both. some proper battery benchmarks would confirm this.
ill try compile the app from source and see if i can get it installed, otherwise i can't justify the paid app as i will only use it once.
wrong.
Even having two side by side you can't say anything about difference, since the variations between batches of the same Samsung/TSMC chips could be bigger than differences between the two A9s.
There are almost always differences between different lots (often daily) of parts from leading edge semiconductor fabs. Sime yield better. Some have larger margins beyond spec. But usually only overclocker types can tell, and that's only if they can figure out how.
In the end when this 'sensational' story dies down I think it will be objectively obvious that there is no statistically significant difference between the two. As others have said, there is likely as much (or more) variability between lots of each manufacturer's chips than between the two.
Speaking of statistics, if someone really wanted to do the community a solid and had access to Minitab or something like that, a t-test could probably solve this if people contributed data into a Google Sheet or something.
edit: Why not? Here's a form- http://goo.gl/forms/qxIfzfAYw1
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It improves the volume of availability at launch a particular problem on latest generation process, just look anemic availability of Intel Skylake to be convinced
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Pretty interesting pics and information here.
TSMC 16 nm finFET Process in Apple A9 Processor
http://www2.techinsights.com/l/8892/2015-09-28/zxx9c
TSMC 16 nm finFET Process in Apple A9 Processor
http://www2.techinsights.com/l/8892/2015-09-28/zxx9c
Well...best I got from geekbench was 2430-4160. A few days ago.
Today I retried several times. My average was 2541-4425.
So...was it iOS 9.0.2? Who knows!
(I'm pretty sure nobody swapped the chip inside my phone while I was sleeping)
Today I retried several times. My average was 2541-4425.
So...was it iOS 9.0.2? Who knows!
(I'm pretty sure nobody swapped the chip inside my phone while I was sleeping)
Well...best I got from geekbench was 2430-4160. A few days ago.
Today I retried several times. My average was 2541-4425.
So...was it iOS 9.0.2? Who knows!
(I'm pretty sure nobody swapped the chip inside my phone while I was sleeping)
The lower numbers are for when iOS throttles the CPU speed after the Ax-chip has warmed up. This is because some of the transistor circuits on the chip run slightly slower and have less reliability margins at higher die temperatures.
To get the highest geekbench scores, put the device in airplane mode (to keep the cellular and wifi radio chips from getting warm), reboot it, and leave it in a cold (non-condensing, above freezing) place for several minutes.
Here is an open source app that doesn't spy on you to detect which manufacturer's A9 chip is in your iPhone 6s : https://github.com/WDUK/A9ChipSource
Compile and load on your device using Xcode 7, no $99/annum developer enrollment needed.
Compile and load on your device using Xcode 7, no $99/annum developer enrollment needed.
I know, I know. I should have said that I I did exactly that. All the times the device was in the same, or very very similar conditions, to avoid thermal throttling.
And yet, the numbers are different, so some thermal throttling must have been there. I think some OS process was using to much CPU on my system. Maybe a bug that was solved with 9.0.2
Lirum Device Info Lite - System Monitor by Rogerio Hirooka: https://appsto.re/us/-AarJ.i
Got the TSMC! Hurrah for battery!
n71ap = Samsung
n71map = TSMC
Great findLirum Device Info Lite - System Monitor by Rogerio Hirooka: https://appsto.re/us/-AarJ.i
Got the TSMC! Hurrah for battery!
n71ap = Samsung
n71map = TSMC
Me...n71map!
I know, I know. I should have said that I I did exactly that. All the times the device was in the same, or very very similar conditions, to avoid thermal throttling.
And yet, the numbers are different, so some thermal throttling must have been there. I think some OS process was using to much CPU on my system. Maybe a bug that was solved with 9.0.2
When you boot up, its pretty processor intensive, and after, there are automated processes going on (spotlight, whatever), if they don't always last as long, you'd get a different temp for chip after the stop. Ambient temp may make a difference too. Close the screen and let it stew for an 2h, doing nothing on airplane mode, would let the boot heat out and then, run the test once.
Samsung was never sued over 14nm I can't believe how cites say that for click bait.tsmc is taking a guy that left them in 2010 and started working at Samsung in 2011.
Samsung's 14nm has nothing to do with tsmc and the fact that Samsung has been making 14nm for over a year now and has ALREADY tested and ran working 10nm chips while tsmc has yet to even produce 14nm.
How can Samsung steal tsmcs 14nm from 2010 when they freaking to this day (late 2015) still don't have a damn working sample of 14nm silicon?
The a9 chip is 12% smaller in actual physical size and is on another level compared to the 16nm tsmc crap.
Yeah Samsung stole a non existent 14nm from tsmc lmfao.
Oh and for the record tsmc was suspicious of 28nm technology that Samsung was using NOT 14nm.
Samsung spent almost half of what the whole tsmc company is worth developing 14nm.
Maybe if tsmc invested 30billion into it they would have a working 14nm chip.
Again how can someone steal something that is not made from tsmc? And the fact the guy stopped working there 5 years and somehow today its there tech stolen from back then on 14nm?
Samsung didn't even have 14nm on the drawing board back then
They were focusing on 28nm and 22nm and 20nm.
Tsmc is just but hurt there 20nm sucked ass and qualcom dumped them for killing there snapdragon 810 and making the chip run hot as hell.
Funny how Qualcomm is using Samsung's 14nm for the upcoming 820 and not tsmc 16nm right.
Wtf didn't tsmc make 14nm instead of 16nm when they claim its there tech ?
What will they say when the note 6 is on 10nm?does tsmc know Samsung is already on its 3rd revision of 10nm and has claimed they are ready for mass volume production for 2016?
Tsmc #sourgrapes
And every single person with a new iPhone deep down when the click on the app to tell them what chip they have are hoping its the sammy.
Samsung's 14nm has nothing to do with tsmc and the fact that Samsung has been making 14nm for over a year now and has ALREADY tested and ran working 10nm chips while tsmc has yet to even produce 14nm.
How can Samsung steal tsmcs 14nm from 2010 when they freaking to this day (late 2015) still don't have a damn working sample of 14nm silicon?
The a9 chip is 12% smaller in actual physical size and is on another level compared to the 16nm tsmc crap.
Yeah Samsung stole a non existent 14nm from tsmc lmfao.
Oh and for the record tsmc was suspicious of 28nm technology that Samsung was using NOT 14nm.
Samsung spent almost half of what the whole tsmc company is worth developing 14nm.
Maybe if tsmc invested 30billion into it they would have a working 14nm chip.
Again how can someone steal something that is not made from tsmc? And the fact the guy stopped working there 5 years and somehow today its there tech stolen from back then on 14nm?
Samsung didn't even have 14nm on the drawing board back then
They were focusing on 28nm and 22nm and 20nm.
Tsmc is just but hurt there 20nm sucked ass and qualcom dumped them for killing there snapdragon 810 and making the chip run hot as hell.
Funny how Qualcomm is using Samsung's 14nm for the upcoming 820 and not tsmc 16nm right.
Wtf didn't tsmc make 14nm instead of 16nm when they claim its there tech ?
What will they say when the note 6 is on 10nm?does tsmc know Samsung is already on its 3rd revision of 10nm and has claimed they are ready for mass volume production for 2016?
Tsmc #sourgrapes
And every single person with a new iPhone deep down when the click on the app to tell them what chip they have are hoping its the sammy.
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Their 20nm "sucked" so much Apple used TSMC instead of Samsung's crap for the A8... I guess so buddy...
Nobody's ever found an A8 inside an Apple that wasn't TSMC... That's the fact bud.
Do you know what the hell you're talking about.
Considering the current mix is 50%, and they produce all A8 chips, that means TSMC is producing about 70% of Apple's chip... That's some "burn" Samsung put on them hey.
When you rant you should normally not talk about something you pulled straight from thin air.
Considering in the end its even possible the TSMC one has the best battery life and the current geekbench seem to be about exact the same (within margins of error for each chip), don't know the hell you're talking about.