If I lived in a country where working for $2/hour for a year or two would let me buy a *house*, I'd probably be *thrilled* to get $2/hour. Remember, that $2/hour from Foxconn is roughly 150% the going rate for similar jobs in China, and compared to the alternatives they're coming from (subsistence farming) it's a cushy, low-labor job that pays *incredibly* well.
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ABC Previews 'Nightline' Visit to Foxconn's Chinese Factories
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If I lived in a country where working for $2/hour for a year or two would let me buy a *house*, I'd probably be *thrilled* to get $2/hour. Remember, that $2/hour from Foxconn is roughly 150% the going rate for similar jobs in China, and compared to the alternatives they're coming from (subsistence farming) it's a cushy, low-labor job that pays *incredibly* well.
Foxconn factories in the U.S.
Foxconn employees work in HP's computer assembly factory located in Plainfield (near the Indianapolis Airport), Indiana. They have Foxconn employee I.D. badges and comprise about 30% of the factory employees. That's how it was when I (briefly) worked at their Indianapolis factory, before it was re-located to Plainfield, Indiana. Business PC's, high-end workstations and laptops are assembled there. Note: HP gets a tax break by doing the final assembly in the U.S..
Foxconn employees work in HP's computer assembly factory located in Plainfield (near the Indianapolis Airport), Indiana. They have Foxconn employee I.D. badges and comprise about 30% of the factory employees. That's how it was when I (briefly) worked at their Indianapolis factory, before it was re-located to Plainfield, Indiana. Business PC's, high-end workstations and laptops are assembled there. Note: HP gets a tax break by doing the final assembly in the U.S..
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The sweatshop narrative is just like every other media narrative. You can't get these liars to do anything but sensationalize and push their agenda. Truth be damned. I happen to know many people who've been to the factories in China and those people are darn glad to work those jobs. Often, they will only work a year or two and make a lot of money to then take back to their rural hometowns.
If Americans weren't such overpaid lazy bums, we could have some of those jobs as well.
The sweatshop narrative is just like every other media narrative. You can't get these liars to do anything but sensationalize and push their agenda. Truth be damned. I happen to know many people who've been to the factories in China and those people are darn glad to work those jobs. Often, they will only work a year or two and make a lot of money to then take back to their rural hometowns.
If Americans weren't such overpaid lazy bums, we could have some of those jobs as well.
Give me a break....
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no one is forcing them to work there....
there are all kinds of jobs people have in the world and a lot of them MUCH worse than making technology products.
The argument isn't "everyone else is worse, we shouldn't blame Apple", it's "Apple is actively and measurably better than everyone else, and has been shown to actively be working on improving things, why the **** aren't we holding everyone else's feet to the fire?"
Foxconn employees make in the neighborhood of $2/hour. That wage is, in the areas of China from which these employees originate, sufficient to *buy a house* back in their home town from just couple years worth of work, in part because they have virtually no living expenses while they're working in the factory. They get room & board, medical, etc. Yes, by our standards, conditions are cramped, but if they want to, they are perfectly free to rent a place off campus, and with their pay they can actually *afford* to do so.
You can't directly compare pay rates without also factoring in living expenses and cost of living. In the US, minimum wage puts you solidly in poverty. Over there, $2/hour is a pretty good wage, equivalent to roughly $10-15/hour over here. That's not a bad wage for unskilled labor. (As a matter fact, that's about what we pay people for unskilled factory work over here.)
Apple should just close up shop... If they're not bettering ever single aspect of the world then they really serve zero purpose
China's rural areas are orders of magnitude different from the cores of Beijing and Shanghai. The $1.75 an hour that a worker earns often helps to support their entire family and possibly extended family back home.
China is gradually moving out of poverty. While its GDP is huge, there are wide areas of the country where there is still deep poverty. It takes decades for countries to raise themselves from third world status. Salaries will rise gradually over time.
A fry cook at McDonalds doesn't expect to be able to buy a condo with views of Central Park in NY. We can't expect that an employee will rise out of poverty after a few weeks on the job.
Because his comment didn't compare human life with chickens life. You and a few others are stretching his comment as if it implies that.
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What I want to know is why Apple doesn't have 24 hour employees posted inside the factory with unfettered access to the production lines making sure that employees are being treated fairly. It shouldn't have to be random inspections. Foxconn should have to adhere to the standards all the time, not just when an inspection detail is coming around. There is no way of knowing if they removed a large number of underage workers just prior to the taping. Plus it would be interesting if they were to follow up with every employee they speak with to find out how hard te hammer fell for speaking to the press.
What I want to know is why Apple doesn't have 24 hour employees posted inside the factory with unfettered access to the production lines making sure that employees are being treated fairly. It shouldn't have to be random inspections. Foxconn should have to adhere to the standards all the time, not just when an inspection detail is coming around. There is no way of knowing if they removed a large number of underage workers just prior to the taping. Plus it would be interesting if they were to follow up with every employee they speak with to find out how hard te hammer fell for speaking to the press.
Considering they get: Room & Board, Food, Medical Facilities, Entertainment, Dental and other amenities on their campus along with making more then the average line worker, they are doing far better then most Chinese in the same position.
Also $1.50 over there is not the same as $1.50 over here. As usual, someone who has no clue what the term 'relative' means.
I love how all these people are coming out the woodwork now so appalled by working conditions of factories used to assemble Apple products. How long has Apple been assembling their products in China? If it bothers you so much then stop buying Apple products. But then you'll probably have to stop buying a lot of other companies products too as their stuff is probably made in similar or worse conditions.
I know I'm being insensitive here, but really, I don't understand why this is such big news all the time. I come here for news on apple products and rumors. I don't care about the working conditions at Foxconn. If they are so bad, work somewhere else. Tired of seeing this everywhere! Then Apple has to play the good corporate citizen role and act like they care so much about safety and working conditions just like all companies have to do here because they can not afford to stomach the bad PR they might receive.
It's just like anywhere else, although they don't want people to get hurt or work under horrible conditions everything effects the bottom line and companies do everything they can to mitigate that impact on their profits and that includes bad PR
It's just like anywhere else, although they don't want people to get hurt or work under horrible conditions everything effects the bottom line and companies do everything they can to mitigate that impact on their profits and that includes bad PR
They should also have employees in every Chinese village feeding people and helping out with chores
I think his point is valid. The media and people like to single out Apple because they are so successful at what they do. Apple has become a easy target. Why isn't the media going after interviews of these other CEOs? Why aren't these other companies being held accountable like Apple. It is one thing to start calling people names like "fanboys" but at least be balanced and lay the criticism with the industry as a whole. Are you suggesting that Apple some how can single handily stop all this?
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Yep. If it bothers people so much stop buying Apple products. Do the research and only buy products made in the USA (or whatever country your from) where workers earn a wage and work in conditions that you find acceptable.
Foxconn and the "Lewis Model"
Nobel winning economist Arthur Lewis published "Economic Development with Unlimited Supplies of Labour" in 1954. In brief, he said that the capitalist sector will grow without increases in wages as long as it has an unlimited supply of labor coming from a subsistence sector. This was true in the Industrial Revolution in the US and Europe and is true in China today. It is also supposed that there is a "Lewisian turning point" at which the labor supply is exhausted and wages increase. Many economists feel China will reach that point soon. When it does, Foxconn (and indirectly Apple) will either pay higher wages or move to another country. My guess is higher wages in the short run, as a doubling would not seriously impact the price of an iPad. There have been anecdotal cases of corporations moving their manufacturing back to the US when overseas costs got too high. This could be a medium range future for Apple.
Like a lot of threads on this board, this discussion seems to have devolved into those who expect more of Apple and those who defend it almost mindlessly (aka fanboys.) Neither side is very objective. Personally I am happy that my AAPL shares are over $500 but I do have ethical concerns about the employment model of the entire computer industry.
The above post touches on an important point. Taiwanese owned Foxconn is essentially a foreign company taking advantage of China's cheap rural labor. (Not getting into a discussion of the status of Taiwan here.) This is further facilitated by the Chinese residence system that permanently ties the worker to their home village. There are dormitories because the government, not Foxconn, will not let them relocate families. Maybe they can buy a house, just not in the same city as the factory.
Nobel winning economist Arthur Lewis published "Economic Development with Unlimited Supplies of Labour" in 1954. In brief, he said that the capitalist sector will grow without increases in wages as long as it has an unlimited supply of labor coming from a subsistence sector. This was true in the Industrial Revolution in the US and Europe and is true in China today. It is also supposed that there is a "Lewisian turning point" at which the labor supply is exhausted and wages increase. Many economists feel China will reach that point soon. When it does, Foxconn (and indirectly Apple) will either pay higher wages or move to another country. My guess is higher wages in the short run, as a doubling would not seriously impact the price of an iPad. There have been anecdotal cases of corporations moving their manufacturing back to the US when overseas costs got too high. This could be a medium range future for Apple.
Like a lot of threads on this board, this discussion seems to have devolved into those who expect more of Apple and those who defend it almost mindlessly (aka fanboys.) Neither side is very objective. Personally I am happy that my AAPL shares are over $500 but I do have ethical concerns about the employment model of the entire computer industry.
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Now here is an interesting question. How many companies actually have their electronics such as computers actually built in America? I suspect if we all boycotted electronics made in China there would not be much to buy.
I guarantee this will be a puff piece of journalism that will ultimately tout AAPL and make them look good. How convenient for AAPL to get free advertising on a major broadcast network on their premium news program - just 2 weeks before the release of the iPad 3?
There will be good positive spin and hype up to March 7th. Shame on ABC news for falling for AAPL tactics.
There will be good positive spin and hype up to March 7th. Shame on ABC news for falling for AAPL tactics.