You willing to work for $2 an hour? Because they are getting paid less than that. Makes no sense to make anything here in the states that is this high of volume anymore.
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ABC Previews 'Nightline' Visit to Foxconn's Chinese Factories
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You willing to work for $2 an hour? Because they are getting paid less than that. Makes no sense to make anything here in the states that is this high of volume anymore.
EXACTLY !
For everyone who feels they have a right to complain, take a moment, look around you and count how many items you see that have 'Made in China' on them...need a calculator ? ( oh, that will have been made in China also )..
This place is overflowing with HYPOCRISY......
Typical.
oh sure.. make it in the USA!.
keep those jobs here. Lets raise the price per iPad by $1200
and see the sales drop to 5% of where they are now. and then fire everyone cause the product is cancelled.. so now we have no iPad and no jobs.. fun!!
Time to fire a lot of those workers I am sure we can get the next gen. machines to do it for less and better. Now lets all give our selves hugs and sing camp fire songs.
If Heineken made Ipads, they would be the best Apple ipads in the wooorld. Also their labour would earn a decent wage!
Plus North American are to fat, hunger makes for good slaves or slave like, we don't have that kind of desperate society here in the States but who knows maybe in another decade we will and it will be fun to watch it happen.
Then we can get use 40 percent of the population to work for 10 cents an hour and be so happy.They do when they can. In this case it's literally keeping up with the competition. Lets just assume for a second that Apple drops it's Asian manufacturing over the next decade (which is probably the minimum amount of time necessary). Do you think that's going to bother Apple's multiple competitors that don't give a darn. Bet your bottom dollar that they are going to continue using Foxconn no matter what and they are going to reap the advantages that Apple won't be able to.
Apple is literally stuck, they need the flexibility that only Foxconn can give them - they literally cannot get the equivalent anywhere else - it's just way too expensive and they still have to deal with the fact that their competition has less costs. The changes needed are way beyond what Apple can do.
Keep in mind the yuan is 44% undervalued against the dollar according to some estimates. Cost of living in China is therefore going to be artificially low. That means you should more nearly double the Foxconn salaries to get a fair estimate.
I think it's good Apple let them in to report, although it's easy enough to change conditions before the cameras were rolling.
We also seem to forget this isn't an Apple factory...it's a Foxconn factory. As much as Apple can control Foxconn, it's not theirs directly.
As for the money, I think it's ridiculous to compare a communist to a democratic country. Maybe they should be making more, but what if the government wants to control their wages so they can't make a decent living, can't get educated properly to realize how wrong it is to have a communist government?
Plus look at the value of currency - I don't think it's comparing apples to apples ('cuse the pun). When you go to Mexico, if you pay for something in pesos, it's not going to be same value if you had paid with the US or Canadian dollar or Euro is it?
ABC is using shock value quoting the daily salary. People aren't smart enough to factor in the points I made. They see the $1.whatever and think OMG! That's awful.
Don't get be wrong - I'm not saying those workers should be paid cheaply or way under the norm (whatever that is), but I think some perspective needs to be added.
As for the suicides, I think it's a terrible situation, but I believe there's also some sensationalism to the reporting. It's sad when a human takes their own life.
Overall, I think Apple allowing access to Foxconn's factories is a good thing.
But I think the state of the conditions isn't Apple bound - I'm sure the rest of electronics manufacturers are in the same boat.
It's too bad the North American lifestyle can't afford factories with willing employees to make these electronics at lower prices. Our iPads and other laptops etc... would be too expensive for us to buy.
Regarding that, I do sense a slightly growing urge to buy US or Canadian made products. I think people are fed up with everything being made in China etc.. plus the woeful economic times and people just want things to be better.
cheers,
Keebler
We also seem to forget this isn't an Apple factory...it's a Foxconn factory. As much as Apple can control Foxconn, it's not theirs directly.
As for the money, I think it's ridiculous to compare a communist to a democratic country. Maybe they should be making more, but what if the government wants to control their wages so they can't make a decent living, can't get educated properly to realize how wrong it is to have a communist government?
Plus look at the value of currency - I don't think it's comparing apples to apples ('cuse the pun). When you go to Mexico, if you pay for something in pesos, it's not going to be same value if you had paid with the US or Canadian dollar or Euro is it?
ABC is using shock value quoting the daily salary. People aren't smart enough to factor in the points I made. They see the $1.whatever and think OMG! That's awful.
Don't get be wrong - I'm not saying those workers should be paid cheaply or way under the norm (whatever that is), but I think some perspective needs to be added.
As for the suicides, I think it's a terrible situation, but I believe there's also some sensationalism to the reporting. It's sad when a human takes their own life.
Overall, I think Apple allowing access to Foxconn's factories is a good thing.
But I think the state of the conditions isn't Apple bound - I'm sure the rest of electronics manufacturers are in the same boat.
It's too bad the North American lifestyle can't afford factories with willing employees to make these electronics at lower prices. Our iPads and other laptops etc... would be too expensive for us to buy.
Regarding that, I do sense a slightly growing urge to buy US or Canadian made products. I think people are fed up with everything being made in China etc.. plus the woeful economic times and people just want things to be better.
cheers,
Keebler
Agreed! Watch Food Inc and you'll stop buying most processed meat! And that crap goes in your body!
I hope that Apple (and anyone else that uses Foxconn) offers to pay them a little more for their service. I also hope intelligent people realize what pay and income levels are in these big companies. America and the world want inexpensive things and that means either you get cheap parts or cheap labor. Something has to give.
You may have no idea but making bear is actually easy , you can take a class on how to do it not that its that hard. After a few times and a few mistakes you will be making bear as good as any company or better. If you have about 10 grand you will be a pro, just make sure you don't sell it because you know how important it is to keep those taxes flowing. :roll eyes: ATF will not like it if you sell without paying your share.
Also I know your a kid but if you look it up average beer company has maybe 400 employees big ones. How many at foxcomm? I like to live in Utopia township but I live in RealityVille and own Apple stock and would like to see Apple continue to do well and bring nice toys for me to play with. Life is terrible to 90% of the world but that the brakes on you can do better than this.
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Fair wages, Human rights, and safe work conditions so be the top priority of any manufacturer/company/supplier, etc.
Dangerous business
Actually, there have been.
"Nine poultry farmers commit suicide"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2223349
"In an emotional part of her testimony, Doby told the story of how one poultry grower in her area committed suicide only the week before ." Farmers Look for Justice in the Poultry Industry -- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-murphy/farmers-look-for-justice_b_594582.html
"uicide is now the leading cause of death among American farmers, occurring at a rate three times higher than in the general population."-- http://www.localfutures.org/publications/online-articles/the-farm-crisis
Actually, there have been.
"Nine poultry farmers commit suicide"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2223349
"In an emotional part of her testimony, Doby told the story of how one poultry grower in her area committed suicide only the week before ." Farmers Look for Justice in the Poultry Industry -- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-murphy/farmers-look-for-justice_b_594582.html
"
Does Apple own these factories?
I was under the impression that these factories are owned by other companies, and Apple simply uses them to manufacture their products.
I was under the impression that these factories are owned by other companies, and Apple simply uses them to manufacture their products.
Honestly, I don't think people know the actual definition of a slave. I'm not trying to minimize what's happening in China. But when you use the term "slave" to describe things at Foxconn, I think it minimizes situations where slavery is actually used. From Dictionary.com... slave - a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. People working at Foxconn are not slaves. They line up and apply for jobs. They get paid, actually quite well for the job they do and the country they live in. This is NOT slave labor.
It may be true that the conditions there aren't great. There's a lot of conflicting information about that, and since none of us work there, none of us really knows for sure. The conditions definitely aren't what we're used to here. But the Chinese society is much different than American society. And as much as people want to say that doesn't excuse horrible working conditions...you're right. But society isn't an easy thing to change. Foxconn would have to decide to change things in their plants. And even if they do, I don't knof if one company can change an entire society. But note, Foxconn has to change. Apple doesn't pay these people. Apple isn't their employer. Apple pays Foxconn. Foxconn hires people to do the work, provides the living quarters, etc. Apple has some oversight, and has been pushing for improvements over the last few years. That's more than you can say for any other company that uses Foxconn's services.
As for the suicide rate, yes, it's awful that people have committed suicide at their jobs. We don't know why they made the decision to end their lives. We don't know if it was completely due to work, or if they got news that something awful happened with their family, etc. They work and live at Foxconn, so if they decide to kill themselves, where else are they going to do it? And with a workforce of over a million people, suicide is going to happen, there's just no way around it. People commit suicide at their place of employment here in the US, too. Not on that scale...but we don't have companies that employ that many people, either. You have to try to put it in some sort of perspective.
Before deciding that the Nightline report is bogus or biased, at least watch it. How can you try to make an informed decision if you haven't even seen it yet?
It may be true that the conditions there aren't great. There's a lot of conflicting information about that, and since none of us work there, none of us really knows for sure. The conditions definitely aren't what we're used to here. But the Chinese society is much different than American society. And as much as people want to say that doesn't excuse horrible working conditions...you're right. But society isn't an easy thing to change. Foxconn would have to decide to change things in their plants. And even if they do, I don't knof if one company can change an entire society. But note, Foxconn has to change. Apple doesn't pay these people. Apple isn't their employer. Apple pays Foxconn. Foxconn hires people to do the work, provides the living quarters, etc. Apple has some oversight, and has been pushing for improvements over the last few years. That's more than you can say for any other company that uses Foxconn's services.
As for the suicide rate, yes, it's awful that people have committed suicide at their jobs. We don't know why they made the decision to end their lives. We don't know if it was completely due to work, or if they got news that something awful happened with their family, etc. They work and live at Foxconn, so if they decide to kill themselves, where else are they going to do it? And with a workforce of over a million people, suicide is going to happen, there's just no way around it. People commit suicide at their place of employment here in the US, too. Not on that scale...but we don't have companies that employ that many people, either. You have to try to put it in some sort of perspective.
Before deciding that the Nightline report is bogus or biased, at least watch it. How can you try to make an informed decision if you haven't even seen it yet?
While there are some factories that are dedicated to one companies products (makes sense when they are competitors), the factories are owned by Foxconn
Pretty much yes. Although Foxconn has may other similar business agreements with pretty much every consumer electronics company in the world
How did this comment get 22 negative votes??? Are people really that obsessed with defending apple that even human life is comparable to that of a chicken?
It is ok to disagree with Apple, doesn't make you a hater. This is the "us vs them" mentality that has plagued human since the dawn of time.
Objectivity is a lost art these days (and I include myself!).
In all fairness, it really depends on the market. Is 1.50 above or below the average salary over there? It is probably higher. You can't really compare salaries just based on numbers. Hell, you can't even do that between cities in the same state, province or country!
That being said, I'm more curious on working conditions than salaries. For example, do they work 12 hours shifts 6 days ouf of 7 (numbers pulled out of arse, but *most* should get what I mean), etc.
Apple is a leading company and ever expanding it's quite normal it's in the spotlight.
Besides the argument "everyone else disregards human rights and is worse than Apple" is not a winning one.
If this story helps to rise the human rights awareness in Cina and the rest of the world (USA not excluded), I can only think it's a good thing.
If you think that Apple executives are payed millions of dollars and Foxcon employees earn 1 dollar/hr, everyone understands that there is something terribly wrong.
Is it the way economy and globalization works? It's wrong.
Is there an alternative? there must be and I hope it doesn't involve violence or revolutions.
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