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ArmitageShanker, I would suggest you join myself over on the MacFormat UK forums, which is far more knowledgable and less prone to being shot down by American users who have no idea of UK law but still think they're correct in what they're saying.

This place is good for news, but it's as friendly as a Celtic pub down the Gallogate is to a Rangers supporter on Old Firm day.
 
ArmitageShanker, I would suggest you join myself over on the MacFormat UK forums, which is far more knowledgable and less prone to being shot down by American users who have no idea of UK law but still think they're correct in what they're saying.

This place is good for news, but it's as friendly as a Celtic pub down the Gallogate is to a Rangers supporter on Old Firm day.

what?

listen, this is pretty common sense...

he didn't get extended warranty, his phone broke it's THAT simple.

i hope apple sues HIM for wasting their damn time.
 

Dear Thread Starter, I'm going to give what limited knowledge I have on the Sales of Good Act - which i studies a few years back.

There's a few things here that you need to do and consider

1) Proof that the damage was 'incoming' anytime, and not your personal damage. You cannot say that

'I did not bump my phone, it just happened! Thus it's the fault of the manufacturer'
What you need here, is evidence that this is widespread issue, and that the parts are proven to be faulty. This can be done through a list of people who bought the phone at the same period of time - with the same manufacturing factory, week (and possibly day).

2) One thing many seem to misunderstand - is that you cannot seek Apple to give you warranty on the phone because you have signed a 24-Month Contract.

This is because you signed the contract with the carrier, and not the manufacturer. Thus, Apple is legally allowed to redirect you to O2, Vodafone and such - and the same process might happen.

3) You need to know that your chances are slim. This is because European regulations have confirmed that warranties are legally binding contractual obligations between the manufacturer, or retailer and the consumer for the time frame indicated. The key there is The time frame indicated.
There has been past cases where companies won suits which the consumer (who did not buy extended warranty) attempted to get aftersales service past their warranty period. The corporations won.

The one place that warranties don't work is Scotland.

Also, if the smallprints say that they are not obliged to give you free warranty, you don't get it. The contractual laws are above the Sales of Good Act.

I hope you the best of luck. I can give you other information if you PM me. But do not take in everything I say as it was a few years ago where I studied it. In addition, I do not have a degree in Law.
 
what?

listen, this is pretty common sense...

he didn't get extended warranty, his phone broke it's THAT simple.

i hope apple sues HIM for wasting their damn time.

No, you listen.

The guy is not saying he is suing Apple, he is simply looking to take them to a Small Claims Court using the UK's Sale Of Goods Act.

Typically, when anyone from the US hears the word "court" they imagine court cases, suing, etc ... which is of course the case in a country where someone cam try to sue McDonalds for making them fat. I rest my case on that point.

You have no idea what you are talking about, and as much as you or any other user from the US/Canada wants to rant to the contrary, your knowledge or your laws means the square root of f**k all ... the UK has this law, and belittling this guy by using the laws of your country is wrong.

The only mistake this bloke made was joining and posting his question on this forum. I suggested he join MacFormat UK forums and get input from respected UK Mac journalists such as Chris Phin and Crsig Grannell, who reply on the forums often.

At the end of the day, UK law states that a device must be fit for the purpose it was built for a reasonable time. My iPhone cost me £342 and was bought in September 2009. If it dies in November 2010, two months outside warranty, then it clearly was not built to standard since it only lasted two months outside warranty.

People in the UK have had SuperDrives and Hard Drives replaced outside warranty on their Macs using the Sale Of Goods Act.

At the end of the day, if looked after, a £900 Mac or £400 iPhone SHOULD be expected to last longer than a few months outside it's standard warranty. If they don't then the quality of the product is questionable.
 
The one place that warranties don't work is Scotland.

Also, if the smallprints say that they are not obliged to give you free warranty, you don't get it. The contractual laws are above the Sales of Good Act.

I hope you the best of luck. I can give you other information if you PM me. But do not take in everything I say as it was a few years ago where I studied it. In addition, I do not have a degree in Law.

Wrong.

Warranties do apply in Scotland. They are sold with every product and some stores offer 5 year warranties, such as John Lewis with their TV's.

My iPhone came with a warranty and has been replaced twice under it.

My iMac came with 12 months of warranty and the option to take Applecare.

We're not a third world country, and though you say you studied the law you admit your knowledge is limited. I've lived in Scotland my entire life and can remember warranties even when I was a kid.

Warranties AND the Sale of Goods Act have been used in Scotland for a long, long time.
 
The guy is not saying he is suing Apple, he is simply looking to take them to a Small Claims Court using the UK's Sale Of Goods Act.

When you take someone to small claims court, you are suing them. Be it for monetary compensation, or an equivalent replacement, it is suing.
 
Dear Thread Starter, I'm going to give what limited knowledge I have on the Sales of Good Act - which i studies a few years back.

UK Consumer Law curriculum for Hong Kong-based Apple fanbois.

Lesson 1: How to spell "Sale of Goods Act"

S
a
l
e
s - FAIL. Uh uh. Nope.

I would say nice try but, frankly, it wasn't. Back to the drawing board.
 
UK Consumer Law curriculum for Hong Kong-based Apple fanbois.

Lesson 1: How to spell "Sale of Goods Act"

S
a
l
e
s - FAIL. Uh uh. Nope.

I would say nice try but, frankly, it wasn't. Back to the drawing board.

You're being a dick, man. He was being kind and giving you his view on the matter and you were just rude. If you cannot be kind to a person who was polite then why are you even here? I can understand retalliating against the trolls who...well...troll but you're trolling yourself. This kind of thread is not needed and your attitude is also not welcomed here.
 
UK Consumer Law curriculum for Hong Kong-based Apple fanbois.

Lesson 1: How to spell "Sale of Goods Act"

S
a
l
e
s - FAIL. Uh uh. Nope.

I would say nice try but, frankly, it wasn't. Back to the drawing board.

Wow, buddy. This guy was trying to help you with you current situation and you bite his head off for a spelling error. Nice. From what I can tell, you pretty much have your mind made up and are going through with the suit anyway, so maybe a little more time should be devoted toward winning an unwinnable case instead of hypercriticizing his misplacement of the letter "s". Not cool.

Edit: Sorry RichL. I guess you and I had the same thought at the same time.
 
You're being a dick, man. He was being kind and giving you his view on the matter and you were just rude. If you cannot be kind to a person who was polite then why are you even here? I can understand retalliating against the trolls who...well...troll but you're trolling yourself. This kind of thread is not needed and your attitude is also not welcomed here.

Wow, buddy. This guy was trying to help you with you current situation and you bite his head off for a spelling error. Nice. From what I can tell, you pretty much have your mind made up and are going through with the suit anyway, so maybe a little more time should be devoted toward winning an unwinnable case instead of hypercriticizing his misplacement of the letter "s". Not cool.

Edit: Sorry RichL. I guess you and I had the same thought at the same time.

He wasn't being nice and he wasn't trying to help. Like many of you on here, he was pretending to know something of a subject on which he is ill-informed, in order to attempt to debunk me. He has not studied the Sale of Goods Act, as evidenced by the factually inaccurate statements that he makes, but he feels duty-bound to defend the the glorious Apple. Still, like several other posts on here, it's provided me with great entertainment. Thanks.
 
He wasn't being nice and he wasn't trying to help. Like many of you on here, he was pretending to know something of a subject on which he is ill-informed, in order to attempt to debunk me. He has not studied the Sale of Goods Act, as evidenced by the factually inaccurate statements that he makes, but he feels duty-bound to defend the the glorious Apple. Still, like several other posts on here, it's provided me with great entertainment. Thanks.

Yes he was:rolleyes:

How about you just go on your way and file a case and actaully see if you can get something? Your needless bickering towards those trying to help is getting quite tiresome

Not everyone is going to agree with you, which seems to be the only opinions you want to hear and reply kindly back towards

If it were such a "slam dunk"with this law why the heck even start this thread on the topic as opposed to just filing a claim?
 
LOL all the US/Euro bashing....so funny. I'd say can't we all get along, but I dunno....

Anyway, no need to bash peoples countries. We all love where we're from, no need for that hate all.

Much love to all iPhone nations!
 
He wasn't being nice and he wasn't trying to help. Like many of you on here, he was pretending to know something of a subject on which he is ill-informed, in order to attempt to debunk me. He has not studied the Sale of Goods Act, as evidenced by the factually inaccurate statements that he makes, but he feels duty-bound to defend the the glorious Apple. Still, like several other posts on here, it's provided me with great entertainment. Thanks.

He posted what he thought to be accurate information on a subject you wanted more info on. You criticized him for a spelling error. That's a dick move. Saying that his pst and others like his is "entertainment" is also a dick move. Like I said, you have obviously already made up your mind. File the suit, lose, and move on.
 
He wasn't being nice and he wasn't trying to help. Like many of you on here, he was pretending to know something of a subject on which he is ill-informed, in order to attempt to debunk me. He has not studied the Sale of Goods Act, as evidenced by the factually inaccurate statements that he makes, but he feels duty-bound to defend the the glorious Apple. Still, like several other posts on here, it's provided me with great entertainment. Thanks.

So, I've avoided responding anymore to the legal argument in this thread but I can't help responding to this. He was trying to help you. And honestly, stating someone is ill-informed, when the extent of your knowledge of the matter is little more than a magazine article, just makes you look like a moron. I believe you said "I haven't read the full text of the act, and neither do I need to. Organisations such as Which? do that on my behalf. And neither do I intend to study case law to seek out precedents"

Now go away unless you're going to at least be civil.
 
Yes he was:rolleyes:

How about you just go on your way and file a case and actaully see if you can get something? Your needless bickering towards those trying to help is getting quite tiresome

Needless is having, and expressing an opinion, on a subject that you know nothing about. I don't make posts on internet fora if the subject is one where I have nothing to contribute. Spewing nonsense when you know nothing of the significant nuances pertinent to the question is needless but it seems that if you are pro-pomme then that's all that matters to the fanbois inhabiting this forum.

Not everyone is going to agree with you, which seems to be the only opinions you want to hear and reply kindly back towards

I have no objection at all to people disagreeing with me but if fanbois are going to pretend to know more than they do and base their arguments on erroneous premises, then I'm not going to deny myself the pleasure of giving them a metaphorical slap.

If it were such a "slam dunk"with this law why the heck even start this thread on the topic as opposed to just filing a claim?

I'm no "slam dunk", hence my need to refer to authoritative organisations such as Which?, but places like this would be much more constructive and informative if the kids stayed in the playground and left us grown-ups to have a proper discussion.

He posted what he thought to be accurate information on a subject you wanted more info on. You criticized him for a spelling error. That's a dick move. Saying that his pst and others like his is "entertainment" is also a dick move. Like I said, you have obviously already made up your mind. File the suit, lose, and move on.

He didn't think it was accurate at all. He pretended to, but it was so far removed from anything resembling accurate that it was laughable. And laugh I did. The point of highlighting the spelling error, as I'm clearly going to have to explain this for the hard-of-comprehension, is that it is illustrative of the level of knowledge he has on the Sale of Goods Act. How can he possibly claim to be educated on the subject if he doesn't even know what it's called?

It's a shame you find it a "dick move" that I find posts like this entertaining. Try to be a bit more impartial and you might sneak a little smile out too. Whether or not I need to pursure a County Court claim remains to be seen. I'm calling o2 tomorrow to offer them the opportunity to sort this out, and I may have to contant them and/or Apple in writing before it actually gets that far but, as for whether or not I'll lose if it gets that far, we'll see.

So, I've avoided responding anymore to the legal argument in this thread but I can't help responding to this. He was trying to help you, you ****ing douche. And honestly, stating someone is ill-informed, when the extent of your knowledge of the matter is little more than a magazine article, just makes you look like a moron.

Do yourself a favour, mikethebigot, and have yourself a little read into who Which? are. As I've stated previously on this thread, they aren't just any old magazine. To quote my earlier post, "[T]hey are the pre-eminent consumer rights organisation in the UK with unique powers bestowed upon them by government which allow them to lodge so-called super-complaints on behalf of consumers when they see fit. Questioning their knowledge and authority, if you knew who they were, would best be described as naive but more likely as foolish." I'll let you decide which category you fall into.

I believe you said "I haven't read the full text of the act, and neither do I need to. Organisations such as Which? do that on my behalf. And neither do I intend to study case law to seek out precedents"

I did. Not sure what relevance that has.

Now go away unless you're going to at least be civil.

I'm only staying because there is a bit of wheat among the chaff. Now run along.
 
Needless is having, and expressing an opinion, on a subject that you know nothing about. I don't make posts on internet fora if the subject is one where I have nothing to contribute. Spewing nonsense when you know nothing of the significant nuances pertinent to the question is needless but it seems that if you are pro-pomme then that's all that matters to the fanbois inhabiting this forum.



I have no objection at all to people disagreeing with me but if fanbois are going to pretend to know more than they do and base their arguments on erroneous premises, then I'm not going to deny myself the pleasure of giving them a metaphorical slap.



I'm no "slam dunk", hence my need to refer to authoritative organisations such as Which?, but places like this would be much more constructive and informative if the kids stayed in the playground and left us grown-ups to have a proper discussion.

Really? I hope you don't classify yourself as one of the "grown-ups". Everyone here is just trying to help and give any input they have just to help you out. Calling them children and giving metaphorical slaps seems like the wrong direction to be headed. I think a "Thank You" would be a step in the right direction, even if you disagree with what they have to say. A "grown-up" would at least be civil to the people who are trying to help.

P.S. If we are going to criticize spelling here, I think you should take a look at one of your last posts. You spelled "organizations" wrong.
 
Really? I hope you don't classify yourself as one of the "grown-ups". Everyone here is just trying to help and give any input they have just to help you out.

They aren't. A few are, and I'm grateful to them, but plenty are just trotting out a load of old twaddle and pretending to know their stuff when it's utterly evident they don't.

Calling them children and giving metaphorical slaps seems like the wrong direction to be headed.

I beg to differ. They are woefully out of their depth and I'm simply pointing that out to them. If you can't take the heat...

I think a "Thank You" would be a step in the right direction, even if you disagree with what they have to say. A "grown-up" would at least be civil to the people who are trying to help.

It would be appropriate in instances where people are actually adding something meaningful to the discussion but I've not the inclination to make platitudes towards those who spout drivel because they've an inobjective viewpoint.

P.S. If we are going to criticize spelling here, I think you should take a look at one of your last posts. You spelled "organizations" wrong.

Incorrect. I was writing in English - a language with which you are evidently only partly familiar.
 
I also wasn't going to post again on this after some people didnt seem to get the fact that different countries have different laws to other contries but:

Dear Thread Starter, I'm going to give what limited knowledge I have on the Sales of Good Act - which i studies a few years back.

There's a few things here that you need to do and consider

1) Proof that the damage was 'incoming' anytime, and not your personal damage. You cannot say that

'I did not bump my phone, it just happened! Thus it's the fault of the manufacturer'
What you need here, is evidence that this is widespread issue, and that the parts are proven to be faulty. This can be done through a list of people who bought the phone at the same period of time - with the same manufacturing factory, week (and possibly day).

2) One thing many seem to misunderstand - is that you cannot seek Apple to give you warranty on the phone because you have signed a 24-Month Contract.

This is because you signed the contract with the carrier, and not the manufacturer. Thus, Apple is legally allowed to redirect you to O2, Vodafone and such - and the same process might happen.

3) You need to know that your chances are slim. This is because European regulations have confirmed that warranties are legally binding contractual obligations between the manufacturer, or retailer and the consumer for the time frame indicated. The key there is The time frame indicated.
There has been past cases where companies won suits which the consumer (who did not buy extended warranty) attempted to get aftersales service past their warranty period. The corporations won.

The one place that warranties don't work is Scotland.

Also, if the smallprints say that they are not obliged to give you free warranty, you don't get it. The contractual laws are above the Sales of Good Act.

I hope you the best of luck. I can give you other information if you PM me. But do not take in everything I say as it was a few years ago where I studied it. In addition, I do not have a degree in Law.


pretty much most of this is correct as the law states it does HAVE TO BE

1) an inherent fault and QUOTE evidence that this is widespread issue, and that the parts are proven to be faulty. This can be done through a list of people who bought the phone at the same period of time - with the same manufacturing factory, week (and possibly day) (the red is VERY much essential)
and
2) you dont take action against apple you take it against the place you bought it from - and only them

therefore bashing this guy for adding an 's' to 'sale' was a little over the top,

but 'The one place that warranties don't work is Scotland.' is very wrong

and I would strongly suggest that you yourself go read a law that you are intending to use as in the small claims court you often have to represent yourself AND I strongly suspect that which? wont be accompanying you to it, but they will give you pointers

but seriously those two points are ESSENTIAL esp. the first

EDIT: it doesnt have to very very widespread fault but it does have to be a proven fault exactly like in the DELL TV case it was a proven fault with the power supply that the engineer confirmed and that other people were having the problem
 
They aren't. A few are, and I'm grateful to them, but plenty are just trotting out a load of old twaddle and pretending to know their stuff when it's utterly evident they don't.

I'm sorry that not everyone is as smart as you OBVIOUSLY are.:rolleyes:

I beg to differ. They are woefully out of their depth and I'm simply pointing that out to them. If you can't take the heat...

See above comment.

It would be appropriate in instances where people are actually adding something meaningful to the discussion but I've not the inclination to make platitudes towards those who spout drivel because they've an inobjective viewpoint.

Thank you is appropriate in any situation where someone is offering their help. You are being rude by belittling their opinions and dismissing said opinions as "drivel". It sounds like the pot is calling the kettle black as you yourself are clearly not objective.

Incorrect. I was writing in English - a language with which you are evidently only partly familiar.

The correct spelling is "organizations", not "organisations". My familiarity with the English is just fine, thanks.

Now, be nice to those who try to help you.
 
1) an inherent fault and QUOTE evidence that this is widespread issue, and that the parts are proven to be faulty.

The fella who was successful in getting Dell to concede had nothing more than posts from people on internet fora who were experiencing the same problem.

http://getsatisfaction.com/apple/topics/my_iphone_is_stuck_in_headphones_mode

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-10115381-233.html

http://www.cellfanatic.com/2008/02/24/iphone-headphone-fix-stuck-in-headphones-mode/

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/is-your-iphone-3g-having-headphone-port-problems/P20/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/687882/

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/how-to/gadgets/4258816

http://www.avforums.com/forums/ipho...ne-has-developed-unusual-headphone-fault.html

http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=250872

and
2) you dont take action against apple you take it against the place you bought it from - and only them

I've already engaged both O2 and Apple on this on several occasions and will continue to do so.

therefore bashing this guy for adding an 's' to 'sale' was a little over the top,

I've already pointed out why I bashed him - for pretending to be informed when he evidently is not. The spelling mistake was a simple way for me to highlight his level of ignorance. Clearly it was a bit to subtle for some.

but 'The one place that warranties don't work is Scotland.' is very wrong

Agreed. Complete nonsense.

and I would strongly suggest that you yourself go read a law that you are intending to use as in the small claims court you often have to represent yourself AND I strongly suspect that which? wont be accompanying you to it, but they will give you pointers

Pointers are all you need in the County Court. The process is sufficiently informal that Apple etc. don't have the means to get 'heavy'. I've been there before, successfully, and am confident that my level of knowledge, backed up by the advice of the experts at Which?, is sufficient for me to state my case.

but seriously those two points are ESSENTIAL esp. the first

And they are dealt with.

EDIT: it doesnt have to very very widespread fault but it does have to be a proven fault exactly like in the DELL TV case it was a proven fault with the power supply that the engineer confirmed and that other people were having the problem

Apple's Genius Bar staff have already performed the equivalent role of the engineer in my case and have confirmed that the handset is faulty.
 
Think David and Goliath.

Hey OP, I'm rooting for you.

Just because Apple is a billion dollar company, doesn't mean you can't tackle them, as I'm sure you already know. I bet theres been many a situation when a mere consumer has taken on a giant corp and won the case.

A lot of the guys posting are obviously just apple fanb.. i'mean, morons with no backbone that are willing to take **** lying down from these big corporate companies...

I hope you get the result your after, let us know how you get on.

sidenote: My missus 4G Nano failed 3 weeks out of warranty (no applecare) but regardless I STILL returned it and got it exchanged free of charge.
 
You're going to need a good lawyer to present your case. You, given the way you've presented yourself in this thread, cannot handle it.
 
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