About to begin a battle with Apple. A cautionary tale?

[ArmitageShanker]

I'm sorry that not everyone is as smart as you OBVIOUSLY are.

Thanks.

Thank you is appropriate in any situation where someone is offering their help. You are being rude by belittling their opinions and dismissing said opinions as "drivel". It sounds like the pot is calling the kettle black as you yourself are clearly not objective.

Nope, I'm just dismissing them as drivel because that's what they are. It might not be all cuddly-wuddly for me to say it but that doesn't alter that it's true.

The correct spelling is "organizations", not "organisations".

Incorrect again. It might be spelt that way in your dumbed-down, bastardised variant but it's called English for a reason.

My familiarity with the English is just fine, thanks.

It's not proper English though, is it?

Now, be nice to those who try to help you.

I have been and will continue to be.

 

[ArmitageShanker]

You're going to need a good lawyer to present your case. You, given the way you've presented yourself in this thread, cannot handle it.

I won't use a lawyer, I'll represent myself.

 

[jedispongee]

I also wasn't going to post again on this after some people didnt seem to get the fact that different countries have different laws to other contries but:

I imagine that it was pretty obvious to everyone in the beginning in this thread that this is indeed a case that's in the UK. You can quit harping on it.

While all of us non-UKers may not have known the specifics, it's not particularly hard to use some common sense regarding some of these things. Some who had better knowledge or experience reading law, regardless of where that experience is coming from, can still provide insightful tips as some have demonstrated in this thread.

However at the end of the day, it was a few who have some sort of superiority complex that decided to blanket label others with various names and change the tone of this thread into something worthless. A question was asked in a forum on the internet, where a majority of users I imagine are from the US, and replies were given. What more was expected?

So using the powers that were afforded to me by the internet, I hereby decree that henceforth everyone who believes anyone with an opposing view to be a "fanboi" or likes to "take it from big, bad corporations" as people who have the most to contribute to the world. Does this sound nonsensical? Good, because it was meant to be. Thread closed.

 

[ArmitageShanker]

Fair enough. A bit of censorship never did anyone any harm...

I'll be sure to let you all know how I get on.

Ciao.

 

[jedispongee]

I won't use a lawyer, I'll represent myself.

Dude, if you're going to court regardless of level, you need to do some research at how the law in question has been applied if you want to have a chance.

Just a quick search and you can find this link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8253915.stm

Here's another thread from this forum describing a similar scenario: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/751459/

While the first is just an article from the BBC, which may or may not be completely correct, it states that the Sale of Goods Act directs those who want to make a claim regarding the act must do so with the retailer of the product, not the manufacturer. If I recall, this has already been brought up in this thread. So to save you a trip, the original idea of bringing this against Apple is a no-go, as you said that you purchased it from your telecommunications company.

The second link has good info (and not such good info) there too. Hopefully you can take something from it. Unless you have already decided that Which? has indeed given you all the information you need. In which case, again, good luck. I'm sure if you want to go more into detail and look into law journals that actually talk about this issue, it will help even more. But even from someone who is outside the UK, it seems like your particular argument has a few inherent flaws that will hurt your case. I'm not saying this because I'm rooting for you to lose. I'm just pointing out my observations. But again, obviously I don't know anything since I'm from outside the UK. So whatever.

 

[boss.king]

To ArmitageShanker, what are you honestly looking for from this thread? You asked for advice only to shoot down everything that doesn't agree entirely with what you have said. You claim to know better than everyone else in terms of this law you keep raving on about, and then admit that you have not actually read it and instead are basing your argument on a magazine that talks about it.

To be fair, I've never read Which? so I can't comment on their validity in this discussion, but it seems they have answered all your questions before you even asked them. How about you send them an email and ask what they think about your situation? Heck, send us their reply and show us how wrong we are.

The people on here are genuinely trying to help you, with possibly a few exceptions, but this is not an internet forum, not a law school, so you were being a bit naive in thinking that you would get everyone on your side. In future please go be unreasonable elsewhere.

 

[androiphone]

I'm just trying to make sure you know some of the fundamentals, and not trying to argue, after all you did ask for peoples thoughts in this thread

http://getsatisfaction.com/apple/topics/my_iphone_is_stuck_in_headphones_mode

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-10115381-233.html

http://www.cellfanatic.com/2008/02/24/iphone-headphone-fix-stuck-in-headphones-mode/

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/is-your-iphone-3g-having-headphone-port-problems/P20/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/687882/

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/how-to/gadgets/4258816

http://www.avforums.com/forums/ipho...ne-has-developed-unusual-headphone-fault.html

http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=250872

yes thes are exactly the type of links you need esp. the ilounge one which comes from the editor-in-chief and therefore is regarded a little higher than a few forum complaints which then in turn support the editor-in-chiefs comments

Pointers are all you need in the County Court. The process is sufficiently informal that Apple etc. don't have the means to get 'heavy'. I've been there before, successfully, and am confident that my level of knowledge, backed up by the advice of the experts at Which?, is sufficient for me to state my case.

yes I agree, but as they say you can never be too prepared, so a little extra reading will not harm you and may then come in useful, and remember go in confident but not complacent

Apple's Genius Bar staff have already performed the equivalent role of the engineer in my case and have confirmed that the handset is faulty.

this is also very good to have

 

[Babybandit]

UK Consumer Law curriculum for Hong Kong-based Apple fanbois.

Lesson 1: How to spell "Sale of Goods Act"

S
a
l
e
s - FAIL. Uh uh. Nope.

I would say nice try but, frankly, it wasn't. Back to the drawing board.

Like you have said - I'm from Hong Kong, English is not my first language. Is a spelling mistake a crime? I took my time in my night to provide what knowledge I have gained in the past.
I may not be from the EU, but Hong Kong has many things inherited from around the world, good and bad. Our vocational courses in Hong Kong (IVE) for Business Administration covers many of Law from all over the world. One of them was the Sales of Goods Act.

But I guess I can understand your reluctance to believe someone outside of the country.

Anyway, Best of Luck to you.

 

[tomjdavies]

Not sure whether I've misunderstood or not, but if you are on a contract with a network, eg, o2, vodafone, then they have to repair the phone, or replace it if it cannot be repaired, whether it be a new or refurbished model. It will definitely state something similar in the contract.

However, if you aren't and are outside the 12 month warranty its tough ****. The Sales of Goods Act probably won't get you anywhere here, mainly because its a small claim.

As for legal action, just mither them enough, tends to work for me with all sorts of companies, eg, Microsoft when my 360 broke out of warranty. Usually threatening some form of legal action will be enough for them to cave, but then again, it is Apple.

 

[ArmitageShanker]

Dude, if you're going to court regardless of level, you need to do some research at how the law in question has been applied if you want to have a chance

I already have, as described in Post #2 on this thread. Any research over and above that is superfluous in a County Court context, as we aren't dealing with a case that could cost thousands either way. I'm confident I have a case based on what I've read and I'm willing to take a punt should it come to it. Any further time invested in research would be disproportionately uneconomical (as opposed to the time invested here which I view as borderline sport).

Just a quick search and you can find this link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8253915.stm

Thanks - that example couldn't really be more appropriate and cements my belief that I'll get my phone repaired/replaced for free.

Here's another thread from this forum describing a similar scenario: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/751459/

It appears to pan out in very much the same way as this thread but, unfortunately for me, the fella who made the last post didn't return to let people know whether or not he was successful in getting a free repair/replacement.

While the first is just an article from the BBC, which may or may not be completely correct, it states that the Sale of Goods Act directs those who want to make a claim regarding the act must do so with the retailer of the product, not the manufacturer.

You're quite right, which is why I'm going to get back onto O2 tomorrow. The BBC are a fairly authoritative source, too, so it's good to see that they are infering that my chances of success are strong.

If I recall, this has already been brought up in this thread. So to save you a trip, the original idea of bringing this against Apple is a no-go, as you said that you purchased it from your telecommunications company.

The second link has good info (and not such good info) there too. Hopefully you can take something from it. Unless you have already decided that Which? has indeed given you all the information you need. In which case, again, good luck. I'm sure if you want to go more into detail and look into law journals that actually talk about this issue, it will help even more. But even from someone who is outside the UK, it seems like your particular argument has a few inherent flaws that will hurt your case.

I've seen none which make me think I'm going to have to fork out any cash to get my phone replaced/repaired for free.

I'm not saying this because I'm rooting for you to lose. I'm just pointing out my observations. But again, obviously I don't know anything since I'm from outside the UK. So whatever.

Actually, seemingly, you do, because you bothered to inform yourself, unlike some of your rather embarrassing compatriots.

 

[ArmitageShanker]

To ArmitageShanker, what are you honestly looking for from this thread? You asked for advice only to shoot down everything that doesn't agree entirely with what you have said.

What do you expect me to do if I disagree with what people are saying? Post a message pretending that I think they are right? Come on, this isn't playschool. Man up.

You claim to know better than everyone else in terms of this law you keep raving on about, and then admit that you have not actually read it and instead are basing your argument on a magazine that talks about it.

No I don't. I'm just not afraid to say that I know better when it's utterly apparent that that is the case. There are countless people out there who know the law better than I do, they just happen not to have posted on this thread yet.

To be fair, I've never read Which? so I can't comment on their validity in this discussion, but it seems they have answered all your questions before you even asked them. How about you send them an email and ask what they think about your situation? Heck, send us their reply and show us how wrong we are.

I'll deal with them by phone for now but I'll be sure to report back.

The people on here are genuinely trying to help you, with possibly a few exceptions, but this is not an internet forum, not a law school, so you were being a bit naive in thinking that you would get everyone on your side. In future please go be unreasonable elsewhere.

I was never expecting 'everyone on [my] side' but neither was I expecting to have to pussyfoot around for fear of causing a few Apple uber-fans to throw their toys out of the pram.

I'll be reasonable with those who reason with me. Anyone else is fair game.

 

[jedispongee]

ArmitageShanker, you're delusional.

 

[ArmitageShanker]

I'm just trying to make sure you know some of the fundamentals, and not trying to argue, after all you did ask for peoples thoughts in this thread.

Thanks. And it's been a useful exercise for me insofar as I now have those examples which I can print off and reference at a later date should the need arise.

yes thes are exactly the type of links you need esp. the ilounge one which comes from the editor-in-chief and therefore is regarded a little higher than a few forum complaints which then in turn support the editor-in-chiefs comments

Agreed.

yes I agree, but as they say you can never be too prepared, so a little extra reading will not harm you and may then come in useful, and remember go in confident but not complacent

Sensible advice.

this is also very good to have

Agreed. I think my case is looking fairly strong.

 

[ArmitageShanker]

Like you have said - I'm from Hong Kong, English is not my first language. Is a spelling mistake a crime? I took my time in my night to provide what knowledge I have gained in the past.
I may not be from the EU, but Hong Kong has many things inherited from around the world, good and bad. Our vocational courses in Hong Kong (IVE) for Business Administration covers many of Law from all over the world. One of them was the Sales of Goods Act.

But I guess I can understand your reluctance to believe someone outside of the country.

Anyway, Best of Luck to you.

I never said it was a crime, rather that it was indicative of your level of comprehension of the subject. Thanks for your expression of good luck anyway.

Not sure whether I've misunderstood or not, but if you are on a contract with a network, eg, o2, vodafone, then they have to repair the phone, or replace it if it cannot be repaired, whether it be a new or refurbished model. It will definitely state something similar in the contract.

However, if you aren't and are outside the 12 month warranty its tough ****. The Sales of Goods Act probably won't get you anywhere here, mainly because its a small claim.

Deary me, here's another one. The Sale of Goods Act is specifically designed to be able to deal with small claims. Tap tap.

As for legal action, just mither them enough, tends to work for me with all sorts of companies, eg, Microsoft when my 360 broke out of warranty. Usually threatening some form of legal action will be enough for them to cave, but then again, it is Apple.

No need to mither them, fortunately. A simple County Court case will decide it one way or the other without any significant fuss.

ArmitageShanker, you're delusional.

Wibble.

 

[tigress666]

He wasn't being nice and he wasn't trying to help. Like many of you on here, he was pretending to know something of a subject on which he is ill-informed, in order to attempt to debunk me. He has not studied the Sale of Goods Act, as evidenced by the factually inaccurate statements that he makes, but he feels duty-bound to defend the the glorious Apple. Still, like several other posts on here, it's provided me with great entertainment. Thanks.

*sigh*

Guy, you really need to settle down and realize that not everyone disagreeing with you is out to get you.

They can be trying to help and not be saying what you want them to say. You may disagree with them, but there is no reason to be an a** about it when they are giving you constructive criticism. If you don't agree, don't care to hear, say thank you and go on your way.

Seriously, you only make yourself look bad when you insist on being insulting to anyone who dares to not say what you are wanting to hear.

 

[tomjdavies]

Difference between your case and the Dell case is that was a product that ceased to function entirely. Your problem is a minor software quibble from the sounds of things. If it had ceased to function entirely, you'd probably have a claim under the sales of goods act.

 

[ArmitageShanker]

*sigh*

Guy, you really need to settle down and realize that not everyone disagreeing with you is out to get you.

I never said they were.

They can be trying to help and not be saying what you want them to say. You may disagree with them, but there is no reason to be an a** about it when they are giving you constructive criticism.

I don't mind constructive criticism but I'm not going to make platitudes towards ill-informed contrarian twaddle.

If you don't agree, don't care to hear, say thank you and go on your way.

I'll decide when I wish to say thank you, thank you.

Seriously, you only make yourself look bad when you insist on being insulting to anyone who dares to not say what you are wanting to hear.

I'm not here to look good and I've only insulted those who have attempted to insult my intelligence.

Difference between your case and the Dell case is that was a product that ceased to function entirely. Your problem is a minor software quibble from the sounds of things. If it had ceased to function entirely, you'd probably have a claim under the sales of goods act.

Wrong. It's not a software quibble. Apple staff have already confirmed that.

Oh, and can you refer me to the bit of the Sale of Goods Act where it talks about devices ceasing to function entirely?

 

[tigress666]

I have no objection at all to people disagreeing with me but if fanbois are going to pretend to know more than they do and base their arguments on erroneous premises, then I'm not going to deny myself the pleasure of giving them a metaphorical slap.

Really? Cause every single response I've seen you do to anyone who didn't tell you that you were fully right has been insulting and dismissive. You can actually disagree with some one without insulting them or being dismissive. You do realize that don't you? It's called tact.

You came here asking for opinions. People gave them to you. And you pretty much were insulting and acting like anyone who didn't tell you what you wanted to hear was stupid.

If you think this makes you look smarter or superior, I got news for you. It makes you look petty and obnoxious.

 

[tomjdavies]

My eyes.

You can pursue this, and good luck to you, but you won't get far.

Law student.

 

[tomjdavies]

Please if you win, let us all know on here.

 

[ArmitageShanker]

Really? Cause every single response I've seen you do to anyone who didn't tell you that you were fully right has been insulting and dismissive. You can actually disagree with some one without insulting them or being dismissive. You do realize that don't you? It's called tact.

You came here asking for opinions. People gave them to you. And you pretty much were insulting and acting like anyone who didn't tell you what you wanted to hear was stupid.

If you think this makes you look smarter or superior, I got news for you. It makes you look petty and obnoxious.

I've no interest in looking smarter or superior than a bunch of people I'll never meet. When I asked for opinions, it was in the hope that people would be sensible enough to moderate themselves if they had nothing to add. That hope proved to be vain.

My eyes.

Zoinks Scoob! I hope that O2/Apple don't use the old 'my eyes' defence. How could any judge fail to agree?

You can pursue this, and good luck to you, but you won't get far.

We'll see.

Law student.

Keep studying.

Please if you win, let us all know on here.

I'll let you know either way.

 

[scottness]

Even if the suit were successful and you got a replacement iPhone, would it still be worth all the time and effort it took to win? I would opt to just pick up a new iPhone, or whatever replacement you deem worthy. You can always make more money and you'll never get your time back. Not worth the time wasted in my opinion. Even worse if you lost the battle. Lost money and lost time.

 

[dukebound85]

Even if the suit were successful and you got a replacement iPhone, would it still be worth all the time and effort it took to win? I would opt to just pick up a new iPhone, or whatever replacement you deem worthy. You can always make more money and you'll never get your time back. Not worth the time wasted in my opinion. Even worse if you lost the battle. Lost money and lost time.

common sense would dictate that lol

i mean what is it 200 bucks for a replacement?

The time spent pursuing this will eclipse the time you may have similarly worked to pick up a new phone wage wise I would wager

 

[ArmitageShanker]

Even if the suit were successful and you got a replacement iPhone, would it still be worth all the time and effort it took to win? I would opt to just pick up a new iPhone, or whatever replacement you deem worthy. You can always make more money and you'll never get your time back. Not worth the time wasted in my opinion. Even worse if you lost the battle. Lost money and lost time.

I'm aged 33 and I already have enough money never to have to work again so I'm really just pursuing this out of principle so I may as well give it a go for the sake of seeing where it ends up.

 

[tomjdavies]

Moderate themselves if they have nothing to add?

So people saying that you're unlikely to win isn't a valid...

You should find one of those nodding dogs, it'll give you exactly what you're looking for.