About to order: 560x or Vega 20?

[SergArtz]

I am currently on a 2010 MBP 15" and I am very excited to order my new MBP 15", 2018 32GB/I7 2.6/512ssd tomorrow.
Though, I am crazy undecided to get either the 560x or Vega 20 GPU (can afford Vega, but might skip it too) . I do Graphic Design, Illustration and planning to get back to some 3D Graphics and After Effects stuff.

Anyone in the same field/using similar tasks who could give me a suggestion before I set the order?

Taking today to ultimately think. Bugs comments on this forum (kernel, t2, flickering, overheating) make me honestly refraining a bit from spending some top money to it.

Edit: I would add that main reason why I am choosing one of them is 'cause previous MBP models don't offer 32gb ram as well as not having great deals on the previous models where I am based (I'm Italian but living in Thailand). Instead, I see that US has huge discounts on the previous ones.

 

[greenmeanie]

A lot of negatives on both models on here hard to call which I would pick but would probably go vega.

 

[AbleD]

Main issues to watch out are: kernal panic, keyboard, screen uniformity, flickering (vega), over heating. Heat issue seems to be less on vega models based on reviews.
Another option is getting a 2017 model, there you still have keyboard issues but no kernal panic.

 

[SergArtz]

2017 here in Thailand are almost at the same price as the 2018 base model.
Does Vega overheats less than the 560x? I believe it could be a better investment for a more long term durability?

 

[internetrando]

Do you want a laptop that will be good for three years, or five to six years? That's the question that I asked myself when I was creating my build. If I bought a laptop for $3,499 and replaced it in three years for another one at the same price (or higher) for some performance upgrades...or if I can buy one now for $5,000 that will hopefully last me six years...might save a couple grand in the long run.

It's a gamble I am taking. I have a guaranteed three years out of this laptop with AppleCare+, and I imagine that it will continue to serve me well after that with a battery replacement at some point.

I know where my money went...processor, RAM, and video card. 1TB of storage is sufficient for now, but external storage is King. I imagine that, barring any type of major mechanical failure, that this laptop will serve me well for a long, long time to come.

 

[MakeTheMostOfLife]

I dunno the extra price for the vega 20, but if it’s a lot might be worth getting the 560x and using egpu, which would be vastly superior

 

[Briax]

The 560X is much hotter than the Vega 20 option - I've had both, and the difference is massive. 100% go for the Vega 20 option.

 

[internetrando]

I dunno the extra price for the vega 20, but if it’s a lot might be worth getting the 560x and using egpu, which would be vastly superior

eGPU is not a terrible option, however it removes the portability and can raise costs substantially more, depending on what GPU you decide to go with. I have also heard reports that the Vega 20 runs cooler, while providing substantially more power than the 560X can provide.

The GPU upgrade is one of the few that is really worth what you're paying for on these 2018's.

 

[redpandadev]

I am currently on a 2010 MBP 15" and I am very excited to order my new MBP 15", 2018 32GB/I7 2.6/512ssd tomorrow.
Though, I am crazy undecided to get either the 560x or Vega 20 GPU (can afford Vega, but might skip it too) . I do Graphic Design, Illustration and planning to get back to some 3D Graphics and After Effects stuff.

Anyone in the same field/using similar tasks who could give me a suggestion before I set the order?

Taking today to ultimately think. Bugs comments on this forum (kernel, t2, flickering, overheating) make me honestly refraining a bit from spending some top money to it.

Edit: I would add that main reason why I am choosing one of them is 'cause previous MBP models don't offer 32gb ram as well as not having great deals on the previous models where I am based (I'm Italian but living in Thailand). Instead, I see that US has huge discounts on the previous ones.

I have the 2018 32/i9/560x. The Vega wasn't available when I purchased it. If I had known that the Vega would be offered as an option, I would have waited and chose the Vega. I have not had a single issue with the machine and would not think twice about purchasing or recommending this machine again.

 

[christarp]

personally I would go with the vega 20 over the 560x simply because you're paying so much for a new laptop, and having a polaris based card inside would just feel wrong with everything else being so new lol

 

[afir93]

I have the 2018 32/i9/560x. The Vega wasn't available when I purchased it. If I had known that the Vega would be offered as an option, I would have waited and chose the Vega. I have not had a single issue with the machine and would not think twice about purchasing or recommending this machine again.

Same boat as you. Bought the 2018 MBP with a 560X at launch and had I known about the Vega option, I probably would have waited. If I were to buy one now, I'd probably choose the Vega option, so that's what I would recommend OP. I would mostly do that because of how much cooler it's supposed to run – personally I don't really need the additional graphics power, at least not right now (but who knows when it might have become useful sometime down the line).

 

[smirking]

eGPU is not a terrible option, however it removes the portability and can raise costs substantially more, depending on what GPU you decide to go with.

I'll add that results from any benefit provided by the eGPU will vary greatly from program to program. I got the BlackMagic RX580 when it launched and it actually made CaptureOne Pro SLOWER for most tasks so I returned it. It's possible that whatever happened to me there is resolved now, but the point is that what you're getting from an eGPUs is still very unpredictable.

I have a 2016 and do a lot of photography work on it. It works fine, but I would really love to see it fly with managing my photos. I'm thinking of selling mine and getting a 2018 with a Vega 20.

 

[fokmik]

Based on your work, i would go with base 15" MBP i7. 555x 32gb ram and eGPU Vega inside, 500$ more if you go with the silent blackmagic Vega eGPU, or the same price if you go with razer core+vega56

 

[rex450se]

The 560X is much hotter than the Vega 20 option - I've had both, and the difference is massive. 100% go for the Vega 20 option.

I've also had both and can attest to this. The Vega 20 option runs cooler. Go with the Vega 20.

 

[SergArtz]

Thank you everybody! I just ordered the I7 2.6/512ssd/32gb with Vega 20! Feeling so happy about it!

 

[gigapocket1]

The 560X is much hotter than the Vega 20 option - I've had both, and the difference is massive. 100% go for the Vega 20 option.

I've also had both and can attest to this. The Vega 20 option runs cooler. Go with the Vega 20.

Just what I was looking for.. I went cheap on my 2018 laptop and only got the 512gb hard drive but with 32 gigs of ram.. and I just need more storage.. And was wondering if I should get the Vega 20 or save a few bucks and get the 560x again.. But I like that it runs significantly cooler

 

[Thysanoptera]

Just what I was looking for.. I went cheap on my 2018 laptop and only got the 512gb hard drive but with 32 gigs of ram.. and I just need more storage.. And was wondering if I should get the Vega 20 or save a few bucks and get the 560x again.. But I like that it runs significantly cooler

Vega 20 is 50W GPU, 560x is 35W, 555x is 30W. With the same fan rpms, doing the same continuous task Vega 20 is 30C hotter than 555x. The only scenario where Vega is cooler is when you connect external display, it consumes significantly less energy while idle in such scenario. Until of course you let it loose.

Now, I really have no idea where this perception that Vega is cooler is coming from. Maybe because Apple sets the fans to keep the same temperature. Or maybe because 50W GPU almost maxes out total cooling capacity of the chassis and throttles the CPU to much lower frequency than is the case with RX.

The picture below is 555x and Vega 20 running Heaven benchmark, with the 555x having fans forced to max to match Vega (Apple actually increased max fan rpms on Vega machines)

 

[gigapocket1]

Vega 20 is 50W GPU, 560x is 35W, 555x is 30W. With the same fan rpms, doing the same continuous task Vega 20 is 30C hotter than 555x. The only scenario where Vega is cooler is when you connect external display, it consumes significantly less energy while idle in such scenario. Until of course you let it loose.

Now, I really have no idea where this perception that Vega is cooler is coming from. Maybe because Apple sets the fans to keep the same temperature. Or maybe because 50W GPU almost maxes out total cooling capacity of the chassis and throttles the CPU to much lower frequency than is the case with RX.

The picture below is 555x and Vega 20 running Heaven benchmark, with the 555x having fans forced to max to match Vega (Apple actually increased max fan rpms on Vega machines)
View attachment 817803

But does the pros with Vega have to throttle the CPU as much/often as the 560X? Although Vega runs hotter,does it handle that heat better? And! Are the fans not as load since they are redesigned / bigger making the machine seem as if it’s running cooler.

 

[EDS66]

I am currently on a 2010 MBP 15" and I am very excited to order my new MBP 15", 2018 32GB/I7 2.6/512ssd tomorrow.
Though, I am crazy undecided to get either the 560x or Vega 20 GPU (can afford Vega, but might skip it too) . I do Graphic Design, Illustration and planning to get back to some 3D Graphics and After Effects stuff.

Anyone in the same field/using similar tasks who could give me a suggestion before I set the order?

Taking today to ultimately think. Bugs comments on this forum (kernel, t2, flickering, overheating) make me honestly refraining a bit from spending some top money to it.

Edit: I would add that main reason why I am choosing one of them is 'cause previous MBP models don't offer 32gb ram as well as not having great deals on the previous models where I am based (I'm Italian but living in Thailand). Instead, I see that US has huge discounts on the previous ones.

Go Vega 20. I've had mine for about 4 days and have yet to see any of the alleged flickering. Mine is a BTO (i9/32/1TB), built about 10 days ago. It runs much cooler than I expected. The keyboard is fine. The screen has some backlight uniformity issues, but from I've seen, they all do. No crackling from the speakers, no loud keyboard keys. I use it to stand up VMs when I am at client sites, and don't really do any video editing. I got the Vega 20 solely for its power efficiency and the revamped cooling on the motherboard.

Oh, forgot, no T2-related kernel panics either. Although, I don't use FireVault.

Cheers,

 

[Thysanoptera]

But does the pros with Vega have to throttle the CPU as much/often as the 560X? Although Vega runs hotter,does it handle that heat better? And! Are the fans not as load since they are redesigned / bigger making the machine seem as if it’s running cooler.

Vega laptop will throttle CPU a lot more more when GPU is active, we've been running some benchmarks and 3dmark physics scores are actually worse with Vega than with RX. Fans are the same, chassis is the same, the only difference is the Vega heat plate covers VRAM also, fans on Vega will run higher when GPU is loaded, you need to dissipate 40% more heat, there is no magic.

Vega is a lot faster, if you need dGPU go for Vega. But this is not a free lunch, although it is some 60% faster than 560x it is only 20% more power efficient, majority of performance gain is achieved by increasing power consumption.

 

[EDS66]

Vega laptop will throttle CPU a lot more more when GPU is active, we've been running some benchmarks and 3dmark physics scores are actually worse with Vega than with RX. Fans are the same, chassis is the same, the only difference is the Vega heat plate covers VRAM also, fans on Vega will run higher when GPU is loaded, you need to dissipate 40% more heat, there is no magic.

Vega is a lot faster, if you need dGPU go for Vega. But this is not a free lunch, although it is some 60% faster than 560x it is only 20% more power efficient, majority of performance gain is achieved by increasing power consumption.

Everything I've seen on the web contradicts this. Max Yuriev did a comprehensive analysis of Vega 20 vs 560 and his conclusion was that Vega 20 resulted in better sustained performance

Vega laptop will throttle CPU a lot more more when GPU is active, we've been running some benchmarks and 3dmark physics scores are actually worse with Vega than with RX. Fans are the same, chassis is the same, the only difference is the Vega heat plate covers VRAM also, fans on Vega will run higher when GPU is loaded, you need to dissipate 40% more heat, there is no magic.



Vega is a lot faster, if you need dGPU go for Vega. But this is not a free lunch, although it is some 60% faster than 560x it is only 20% more power efficient, majority of performance gain is achieved by increasing power consumption.

These two videos seem to contradict your assertion. For my workflows I know that 560 was hotter. I returned it. The identical one with Vega 20 is much, much cooler. That said, I don't really put much load on the GPU. My workflows a running several VMs in unison.

He clearly shows that there are additional changes to the motherboard, other than dedicated VRAM heatsink.

Max puts both through a video workflow gauntlet, and he recommends Vega.

 

[Thysanoptera]

Everything I've seen on the web contradicts this. Max Yuriev did a comprehensive analysis of Vega 20 vs 560 and his conclusion was that Vega 20 resulted in better sustained performance

And I said differently where exactly? Literally right above your post in my citation you included I said "Vega is a lot faster, if you need dGPU go for Vega". But this is achieved mostly by increasing its power consumption. MBP can still cool it at full speed all day long, but you push the machine to the limit of what it is capable of. You have some 55W total power budget and need to distribute it. Since the RX is 30/35W it will have more spare room for CPU compared to 50W Vega, simple as that. Although this is rather unlikely scenario when you need both of them, outside of running some CPU intensive games or benchmarks, so Vega is the better option if you need dGPU.

These two videos seem to contradict your assertion. For my workflows I know that 560 was hotter. I returned it. The identical one with Vega 20 is much, much cooler. That said, I don't really put much load on the GPU. My workflows a running several VMs in unison.

So, if you don't use dGPU how exactly do you know it is Vega that is cooler now? You description indicates rather that you had a faulty machine before, like many others have posted from the initial batch released in the summer, where they experienced ridiculous thermal throttling. And that would be actually the best explanation of the "Vega is cooler" phenomenon. It was all related to CPU cooling, with idle dGPU. Vega at full speed cannot be cooler than RX, did you look at iStatMenu screenshots I posted above? It is a whooping 30C hotter than 555x when running benchmarks when you equalize fan rpms. I mean check for yourself, download Heaven 4.0, run in extreme preset, make a screenshot close to the end, at 250 sec mark or so.

He clearly shows that there are additional changes to the motherboard, other than dedicated VRAM heatsink.

Yes, the chokes are also bigger - they need to handle higher current after all. But this has nothing to do with cooling, the heat transfer elements are the same - the actual heatsink (the part that exchanges heat with ambient air), heatpipe and fan.

Max puts both through a video workflow gauntlet, and he recommends Vega.

If I was buying now I'd get a Vega too, but being fully aware that it runs hotter than RX. Two scenarios where it is cooler: external monitor and workload that limits its power usage to below 30W (like a game with locked frame rates).

 

[lJoSquaredl]

From what I can tell Vega 20 for 3D work or high end gaming, 560x is fine for everything else. BUT from what i’ve heard the fans are louder on Vega, so if fan noise and heat bothers you (does for me) that enters into it as well. I’d rather have a slightly slower machine if it also means quieter/cooler.

 

[gigapocket1]

I currently have the 560x on a 2018 MacBook Pro.. I have no problems with crashing/etc..
I really wanted Vega since I was upgrading. But after actually looking at my needs, I never had a problem with the 560x. I generally use two 28" monitors and run photoshop, Lightroom, and final cut pro at the same time etc. and I never had a problem. I just needed more hard drive space. So I found a deal on swappa for a brand new (still in wrapper) MacBook Pro. 15". i9, 32gb ram and a 2TB hard drive for $3500. It was kinda hard to pass that up.. I'm going to buy a laptop cooling fan and call it a day to help keep temperatures lower.

 

[leman]

But does the pros with Vega have to throttle the CPU as much/often as the 560X?

In my tests (comparing an i9/560x model to an i9/Vega Pro 20) I have found that the Vega Pro 20 could maintain higher average CPU clocks under a stress test that pushes both the CPU and GPU to its max. I speculate that this has to do with changed power management in Vega-equipped models. Please do note that such tests are unrealistic and do not reflect real-world usage scenarios as practically no real-world software uses CPU and GPU simultaneously like that.