About to say no to a 120k/year job...

[peapody]

I think it's a little arrogant/pretentious to make a woe is me post about whether or not to take the $100k or $120k job right out of school at 26 years old, and how bad the latter is going to be on your Lexus as a just graduated pharmacy student.

If I had to guess, and perhaps I'm wrong, I think ultimately you probably live EXTREMELY far above your means, if your constant hundreds/thousands of dollars in gadget/electronics purchases are any indicator, so in your case, you should probably take the $120k job to support that lifestyle.



Sorry, but I don't buy this for a minute. The $120k job sounds like it has absolutely nothing going for it except an extra $20k over the other one (pretax, and don't forget to look into what tax bracket you are in at either salary), so this shouldn't even be a contest.

If you've supposedly got $200k in loans, take the $100k job, dump the Lexus, dump the constant gadget purchases, and live below your means and get rid of the loans and be damn thankful you can earn $100k at 26 years old. Student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy, which actually makes them one of the worst kinds of debt there is (contrary to the old thought that student loan debt was "good debt" thanks to the low interest [which I don't consider the usual 6.8% low drug out over 10-25 years, my car interest rate is much lower and even my credit card is fixed at only 8%]). How do you plan to buy a house at your current lifestyle pace? I only speculate because most professional school kids are scraping by, not swapping computers every 2-3 months when they decide they've simply changed their mind and driving Lexuses.

$100k at 26 years old is a fantastic salary. If you have serious doubts about a $100k salary at your age, you're doing something very wrong.

I don't mean to be a dick, but this thread is kind of arrogant IMO and it certainly doesn't sound like a hard choice, if family and professional success take a backseat to money, as you claim.

IMHO, I think you should take the $100k job, and really reevaluate your finances. Have you started a Roth IRA yet? Even with your loans (which are certainly going to be on an Income-based repayment plan, I assume?), you should still be able to live quite comfortably on $2000 a week, especially with $450 rent.

I apologize if my post came off arrogant. This is a very exciting time in my life. I have worked hard and suffered in school for 26 years now, while friends of mine have been working since they got out of undergrad. I don't travel, I don't get to have pets, I don't get to take baking classes. My lexus is a salvaged vehicle that my parents found for cheap, with windows that don't roll down and dents from previous car crashes. I buy gadgets to learn, and foster at least one passion I have since I don't get to do much else besides study and work towards my future. But I don't have to explain myself to anyone. My hope was to get some insight on this huge decision for me...and I did.

This is not a woe as me post. Or at least I didn't mean it to come off that way. I suppose you can look at it that way - but this like I said will determine the rest of my life. All I have done for the past 8 years of my life was to work to this point, and I was at a crossroads. Retail and hospital pharmacy are completely different lifestyles. And I appreciated all the advice that was given to me with all the caveats I presented. I turned down the higher salary. Not going to lie it was hard. Going into pharmacy management in the health system. Going to commute until my car bites the dust/my lease ends. Going to keep using my phone with a cracked screen and hide it from my corporate peers haha.

Oh well, sorry for the "arrogant" post. Not my intention. Just a hard decision. Thanks all for the help.

 

[Abstract]

I think it's a little arrogant/pretentious to make a woe is me post about whether or not to take the $100k or $120k job right out of school at 26 years old.....

Agreed. At first, I didn't even bother replying because the thread doesn't really pose a question involving 2 possibilities. It just says, "This is what I plan on doing soon." It does sound a bit self-congratulatory, like you want a pat on the back for all your sacrifice.

Also, you say that there's more potential upside to the job that initially pays lower, both in terms of "fame", and the ability to move up career-wise. Perhaps I'm wrong, but this doesn't sound like you're giving anything up. It just sounds like you're making a sacrifice now, for long-term payoff.


Personally, I think you made the right choice. You earn enough money now (even if you were 40 years old, but you're only 26....), and you likely will for the rest of your career. Doing the job you want is worth giving up the extra $20k a year. Also, the difference in salary may shrink after a few years. I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[notjustjay]

If you've supposedly got $200k in loans, take the $100k job, dump the Lexus, dump the constant gadget purchases, and live below your means and get rid of the loans and be damn thankful you can earn $100k at 26 years old. [...] How do you plan to buy a house at your current lifestyle pace? I only speculate because most professional school kids are scraping by, not swapping computers every 2-3 months when they decide they've simply changed their mind and driving Lexuses.

$100k at 26 years old is a fantastic salary. If you have serious doubts about a $100k salary at your age, you're doing something very wrong.

Harsh, but truth.

I wasn't making $100K at 26. In fact I had no savings left and about $5000 in credit card debt because I was living a high-tech gadget lifestyle on a grad student budget. At 27 I finally finished my degree and got a job as a software engineer starting at $64K. I also wised up on my spending habits. With that salary I cleared out all my credit card debt, replenished my savings and RRSPs (Canadian retirement investments), then within 2 more years had bought a house and a car (a Toyota, not a Lexus ) I think that's pretty decent for a guy ekeing out a living on his own.

If I was making $100K (actually that's not too many years away at this rate) I would definitely want to put a good chunk of that into savings and pay down my mortgage faster. However, I am itching for a small SUV...

I do agree with the sentiments in this thread about working at the job that makes you happier (and gives you more mental challenges, room for growth, etc.) I would definitely choose a lesser paying job if I could have less stress in my life!)

To the OP: congrats on your success, and I hope you make the decision that makes you happiest

 

[glocke12]

For a job that has less benefits, 100k salary, longer commute, and more stress (in a different way).

More money vs more happiness in the long run? What do you guys think.

As some in a 100k + a year job that has LOTS of stress I say go for it as long as your finances are not severely impacted.

If I was given a chance to do it all over I would gladly sacrifice less money, less toys, etc..for less stress and more happiness.

 

[Iscariot]

Find someone to take over your lease or sublet. Losing 2-3 hours a day to a commute for a year is sheer idiocy. It adds up to losing nearly a month of your life sitting in traffic.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

For a job that has less benefits, 100k salary, longer commute, and more stress (in a different way).

More money vs more happiness in the long run? What do you guys think.

For me, longer commute = less happiness.

 

[balamw]

The commute is going to be bad...not going to lie. About 50 miles each way. On my lexus rx300 it is going to be really bad. Right now I am paying $450 for rent to live in a very comfortable condo that I am renting from a friend, so I figure I would suffer and just drive it. I am looking into purchasing a hybrid civic...the difference in MPG is gastronomical.

I spent 13 years with a 45-60 mi commute. It really depends on how bad/good the traffic is where you are how bad it will be. Where I was, I left home at 7:45 to get in by 9:00 on most days and stayed after 6 (getting home by 7:20) on most days. It was hard on family life. Try to find a low-traffic commute time and telecommute as much as possible.

When my 30 mpg VW Passat was starting to become unreliable/expensive to maintain I traded it in for a Civic Hybrid. It's a great commuter car, but you have to run the numbers for yourself to see if it really makes economic sense. It partially depends on what you think gas prices will do and if moving closer to work makes more sense.

B

 

[puma1552]

I have worked hard and suffered in school for 26 years now, while friends of mine have been working since they got out of undergrad. I don't travel, I don't get to have pets, I don't get to take baking classes. My lexus is a salvaged vehicle that my parents found for cheap, with windows that don't roll down and dents from previous car crashes. I buy gadgets to learn, and foster at least one passion I have since I don't get to do much else besides study and work towards my future.

All I have done for the past 8 years of my life was to work to this point...

In my post, I was almost going to say "...and spare me the 'I've worked so hard' spiel that every professional student says as if to suggest they've worked harder than everyone else and just labored endlessly" but decided it was probably a little too crass. But, here we are, and it seems it wouldn't have been too inappropriate.

I swear, every professional student has the same sob story. As a whole, they seem to whine more than any other academics, I don't get it. You chose it, you chose to go to school for eight years, work wonky hours, and spend your whole life paying off the debt. If you just want money, professional school isn't the path to take, unless you are at Harvard Law, etc. If you just want money, the best thing to do would be to get a computer or chemical engineering degree and make bank from a four year degree (two most lucrative four year degrees) with minimal debt, and let your company pay for your MBA and a six figure position after 5-10 years. I only say this because I get the impression you are in pharmacy school for the money, not the passion.

Either way, it doesn't absolve you from the fact you could've traveled, taken baking classes, etc. etc. etc. if you didn't piss so much money away on gadgets so it still sounds woe is me. From what I've seen of your posts in the recent purchases thread, it sounds to me like you've got an extremely high amount of disposable income to blow on sheer crap. There's not much "fostering of learning" to be had from switching from an 11" MBA to a 13" MBA (both max spec) to another computer then to a loaded MBP, etc or however many times you've switched machines in the past 12 months whenever the wind changes direction. Same can be said for every hard drive or whatever, not a lot to be "learned" about there, so that excuse doesn't hold a lot of water. Buy one computer and be done with it, and stick with it til the AppleCare expires. Same goes for all the other gadgets. Even if you sell the old one, you still lose money on every single transaction.

I hope you've calculated what $200k in loans is going to cost you per month, even based on income-based repayment over 25 years. It isn't pretty, and that's if they are Direct Loans, worse if they are private. I'm damn glad I turned down an advanced degree from Columbia to the tune of $140k because when I punched the numbers into an IBR payment plan, they made me sick--not going was probably the best decision I've made in my life, as bad as I wanted that pedigree on my resume. You can still live comfortably on $100k with that payment plan, but not at the rate of blowing cash that you are currently at. Your financial habits will need to change, if you really are $200k in the hole as you say.

I don't mean to pick apart your finances, but it seems like money is the most important thing to you, and I get the vibe you are yet another professional student only in it for the cash, which is kind of worrisome as a future patient. Sorry, it just rubs me the wrong way when someone with a seemingly endless supply of cash to blow on junk makes a post about which six figure job to take at 26 years old when one is so clearly the worse of the two.

This is not a woe as me post. Or at least I didn't mean it to come off that way.

Protip: it's still coming off that way.

 

[glocke12]

Find someone to take over your lease or sublet. Losing 2-3 hours a day to a commute for a year is sheer idiocy. It adds up to losing nearly a month of your life sitting in traffic.

wait a minute...I missed the part about the 2-3 hour commute..Dude, I did that for almost a year once..two hours one way for work. Trust me, don't do it.

 

[peapody]

Find someone to take over your lease or sublet. Losing 2-3 hours a day to a commute for a year is sheer idiocy. It adds up to losing nearly a month of your life sitting in traffic.

For me, longer commute = less happiness.

I spent 13 years with a 45-60 mi commute. It really depends on how bad/good the traffic is where you are how bad it will be. Where I was, I left home at 7:45 to get in by 9:00 on most days and stayed after 6 (getting home by 7:20) on most days. It was hard on family life. Try to find a low-traffic commute time and telecommute as much as possible.

When my 30 mpg VW Passat was starting to become unreliable/expensive to maintain I traded it in for a Civic Hybrid. It's a great commuter car, but you have to run the numbers for yourself to see if it really makes economic sense. It partially depends on what you think gas prices will do and if moving closer to work makes more sense.

B

wait a minute...I missed the part about the 2-3 hour commute..Dude, I did that for almost a year once..two hours one way for work. Trust me, don't do it.

Sigh yes. The timing of it all was what made me have this lease that is about 50mi away from the job unfortunately. That is a big worry I have right now. I'm weighing and calculating out my options (commuter car vs lease vs new place). Just need to do some more research. I am not adverse from packing all of my stuff and moving again (moving sucks!), but I think I have to stick out this lease. Subletting won't quite be an option since I am renting from a friend.

Things are getting finalized! This is getting more and more real. I am excited to start! This job will give me a lot of autonomy and I get to focus on health care technology. I'll also be able to get trained in the systems software and take part in implementing some very cool new initiatives. (Electronic prescriber order entry etc). I'll be representing my hospital within the health care system - basically looking out for it's best interest versus the 8 other sister hospitals. I'm really nervous since I am a n00b, but can't wait. Truly a dream job.

 

[bruinsrme]

I think you have to look at the jobs and ask.
After taxes how much more will you bring home?
Stress levels?
Time off?
What the job entails?
Where will the job take you in 3 years?

Money isn't everything if it destroys your quality of life.

If the higher paying job requires more time at work then you hourly value is lower.
However if the lower paying job requires more hours but you love what you are doing, your quality of life will be better and you'll be happier.

I accepted a job that doesn't exploit my skill set whatsoever. The money is great (not as much as other opportunities) no stress, and the benefits are fantastic. I am at the bottom of the food chain in a new industry. The challenges are abound and I am loving it. One week I work 36 hours (3days) and the other 48 (4 days). I am no longer tethered to a cell phone, laptop, VPN and an on call schedule.

Work / life balance is important to me.

 

[peapody]

@bruinsrme

Agreed, important to me as well. It is hard to say about stress level because I think they will bring stress in different ways. I will be doing more projects, studying more about systems, getting trained and learning how to train pharmacists and doctors on how to use the programs. I love everything about that. But no lie, I think doing something that doesn't require that much thinking will be nice. However, stress in a retail pharmacy comes from being behind on prescriptions and getting yelled at by customers or your manager for not performing.

That is a nice schedule. I would have loved a 7 days on 7 days off kind of thing. I'd gladly suffer through 12 hour days for 7 days off in a row haha.

 

[63dot]

$100k at 26 years old is a fantastic salary. If you have serious doubts about a $100k salary at your age, you're doing something very wrong.

I don't mean to be a dick, but this thread is kind of arrogant IMO and it certainly doesn't sound like a hard choice, if family and professional success take a backseat to money, as you claim.

This sounds very Suze Orman, but it makes a lot of sense.

I knew a guy who was in his waning days as a baseball player at around 30 and he complained about his $300K salary after he was too injured to play at his regular level, and he got to sit on the bench most of the time and he got caught up comparing his money against younger stars coming in who were 19 or 20 like he was who got paid more when rookie salaries started getting ridiculous in the 80s/90s. He only got to play in one World Series. Boo hoo, that's so sad I have to take a break and have a good cry.

A generation before in his profession, an MLB player may have had to take a regular job in the offseason. At the time of is statements to the press, the rural county he was living in had a per capita salary/wage of $23K a year (for those who were lucky enough to find work) and the local press came down on him hard as they should have.

Reading through these posts, you do sound a little like this guy. Hey it's great to get through your doctorate, and I say congrats to that as relatively very few people (what, 1%-1.5% percent of the working population?) get eight years of university education for an MD, PhD, or PharmD. But try hitting .300+ for a decade in the majors and holding baseball records that have held up nearly two decades. There are far fewer people who can do that. It still sounds like your are complaining more than this guy and he accomplished far more than anyone on this thread, and he got a lot of hate thrown his way at the time.

Just like the local home town baseball hero, I think you may have lost some perspective. He's an older retired gentleman now and full of wisdom and grateful for having been so fortunate. I say talk to people who have had the chance to make the top tax bracket, and even those in their field who have achieved excellence (in his case, playing ball and making and retaining a career in MLB), and try to get some perspective.

 

[the vj]

If you are young go for the money now that you have the energy. For $120K you can do a lot, move closer, save money. Is part of your strategy in life, you won't regret my advice. Work there for 3 years if you want and save that money.

Then you can leave but with a good cushion and a good resume of $120K with you.

There are people braking their back for $30K a year let me tell you.

 

[peapody]

I say talk to people who have had the chance to make the top tax bracket, and even those in their field who have achieved excellence (in his case, playing ball and making and retaining a career in MLB), and try to get some perspective.

Which is the purpose of this thread. Thank you for your post. I welcome constructive feedback like this. Although, I am not complaining. Turning down 20k is not easy, but I am thankful and happy for my offers. People just don't seem to see that in my posts.

From this thread, I see people have different opinions and thoughts. I am getting a broader picture of do's and don'ts and what I may regret doing in the future. The thread has run it's course.. time to study for the boards!

 

[pvmacguy]

Sigh yes. The timing of it all was what made me have this lease that is about 50mi away from the job unfortunately. That is a big worry I have right now. I'm weighing and calculating out my options (commuter car vs lease vs new place). Just need to do some more research. I am not adverse from packing all of my stuff and moving again (moving sucks!), but I think I have to stick out this lease. Subletting won't quite be an option since I am renting from a friend.

Stop before you go any further with the getting a new car idea, especially a LEASE. Either way, which job you choose you said it will be a long commute so you are already a high milage driver and any kind of new or lease car will just plummet in value, and I assume you can't pay cash for a new car because of your 200k debt already. You have no equity in the Lexus as your parents paid for it so drive that thing until the wheels fall off. Lexus are very reliable cars so you should be ok putting miles on it. If you think about leasing a car remember those are ususaly 3yr 36k mile lease at a minimum of 20 cents a mile over your 36k limit. Not to mention your paying almost a payment price for a new car to never own it. The lease car would probably be ok for the commute and you might be ok on milage for those 3yrs but you couldn't drive anywhere else for risk of having to pay milage overage. If you bought a new car take $5k off as soon as you drive off the lot then consider you'll put 24k miles on the car a year which is just driving to and from work! A 3 year old honda civic hybrid with 80k miles would only be worth a hair over 12 grand so you would obviously have negative equity with that you would have to roll into something new so as far as getting any kind of new vehicle the outlook looks pretty grim for you. Best choice keep what you have and just drive it!

 

[peapody]

@pmvcaguy

Yeah, I was trying to rack my brain of possible solutions. My brother needs a car, so a possibility was to pass my car off to him. I don't think a lease will work in my case, nor getting a new car. My parents will have to find him his own car I think. I am also looking into finding very cheap like sleeping space closer to there so I can save on gas and mileage. Don't know if that will work out but just in a tough spot right now.

My lexus is at 115ishk miles right now. Do you think it will hang in there?

 

[eawmp1]

Keep the car.
Break the lease and move closer to work.
Will save you time and money.

 

[pvmacguy]

115k really is not a ton for the engine in that car. If I were you which ever job you decide to take before you start working take your car to a lexus dealership and have them give it a full service. Change the oil, all fluids, have you had the timing belt changed? If not I might encourage you to just go a head and do that. It will be expensive but for the life of the engine and reliability of the vehicle it would be best! Not to mention that is far cheaper than any new/used vehicle.

You say you are leasing from your friend, you should really talk to them about your predicament and explain your concerns about living so far away from work and see if they would be understanding of breaking the lease. If they are a good friend they will be accomodating for you. And if they are somewhat againt it try and find them a tenant that could pick up the lease right behind you make it a little more appealing for them.

 

[peapody]

Thanks pvmcaguy...very good advice. I had planned to get a full service for a while now, but held off at the possibility of giving the car to my brother.

Yeah just got to do some thinking when it comes to this commute. 1+ hour each way is a lot. Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[MovieCutter]

Protip: it's still coming off that way.

Jesus man, lay off. It's a tough decision to make, and it's smart to get as much input as possible. It brings to light questions and potential pitfalls you may not have thought of as well as causes you to think deeper into the situation. I make $100k+ a year at 26, and I don't see it as bragging at all. I have no student loans, no debt, and I think it's something to be proud of that I'm as successful as I am at such a young age. I'd be asking the same questions if I were in her scenario.

And peapody, I did a commute similar to that, only it was 30 miles in DC traffic on the beltway...it sucked. I was living RENT FREE in a place in Centreville, VA too! I moved into the city and never looked back.

P.S. When did you move to the Bay Area? I thought you were in B'more.

 

[mstrze]

P.S. When did you move to the Bay Area? I thought you were in B'more.

Yes, me too. Heck, if you live in the Bay Area you have no real issues as transit there is some of the best in the nation. All the area cities are connected through BART trains.

Spending 1-2 hours going 40-50 miles on a train is 1000% better than driving.

And looking at your debt, you might want to have as much income as possible. The other posters are correct that your monthly payments are going to be incredible! My mortgage for a 130K loan is $1200/month...I'd expect your student loan payment will be upwards of $2,000-2,500 a month. 120K job leaves 10K gross per month...probably ending up around $6500-7000 clear...minus $2500 gives you around $4000. The 100K job is probably closer to $3000 left over. Home expenses are going to be around $1000, food around $250-1000 depending on how often you eat out. Car, as I said earlier, should eat up around $550-600/month for gas and repairs .If you have any other debt, this is going to be tough for your current gadgety lifestyle as you will be left with an estimated $1500 or so for clothes, entertainment and OTHER expenses. Certainly doable...heck most would die to be in your situation. If you have ANY other debt, you will definitely need to tighten your belt.

Just make sure you do a budget and see how estimate how much you will be spending on all of your expenses. That $200K loan is going to be your silent killer...even at $120K a year.

 

[peapody]

Yes, me too. Heck, if you live in the Bay Area you have no real issues as transit there is some of the best in the nation. All the area cities are connected through BART trains.

Spending 1-2 hours going 40-50 miles on a train is 1000% better than driving.

Definitely.

Still baltimore though. Bay Area to visit family. Wish my commute had train access. That would be total WIN. My ultimate goal is to end up back in CA in the bay area. Hoping this job will give me a good foundation and make me desirable to employers!

 

[QuarterSwede]

The last thing you'll think on your death bed is, "I wish I worked more."

 

[shenfrey]

Money buys happiness don't listen to naysayers ; )


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