Accessory Manufacturer Claims 15-Inch MacBook Air Coming in April

[Yebubbleman]

Apple charges $200 more to upgrade 11" MBA from 2GB RAM to 4GB RAM and 64GB flash to 128GB. So if 15" MBA with 4GB RAM and 256GB flash costs $2000 (hypothetical guess based on current high-end 13" MBA pricing), it isn't totally outrageous to expect $500 premium to upgrade to 8GB RAM and 512GB SSD. I am not saying it will happen, but I am just saying it is possible.

As for the CPU, I don't expect Apple to offer only ULV flavors for 15" MBA. Perhaps you are right, but I would think larger real estate would allow Apple to improve heat dissipation and larger battery to compensate for higher TDP of quad-core? Especially if it means using Intel HD 4000 graphics instead of dedicated GPU?

You need way more than two extra diagonal inches for the chassis to properly dissipate a quad-core. If Intel did a Quad-Core ULV, then that'd absolutely be possible in a 15" Air. But you won't see a discrete GPU as last I checked ULV discrete GPUs don't exist, and even if they did, the performance would be way worse than what we already see in the GPUs on the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros. As for $500 for 8GB of RAM and 512GB of SSD; given that they currently charge $200 for 8GB of RAM and given that a 512GB SSD typically retails at close to a grand, no, I don't think it's possible for Apple to charge only $500 for the bump of 8GB of built-in/soldered-onto-the-board RAM, at least not without claiming a loss on the whole thing altogether.

I'm not the one making an assumption. It does exist, your resistance to pay money for it is irrelevant. I don't ever use my ethernet port, a lot of people apparently don't. The fact that you do isn't really all that important. Wi-fi is a suitable alternative for most people, and the introduction of 802.11ac is making it even more suitable. As with the optical drive, most people simply don't use it. Power users, and casual users alike ignore that drive. So in summary, while I'm sorry that you're sad about it, I wouldn't be surprised if they removed both. I wouldn't miss them either. Obviously you would, but that's not really the issue here.

USB 2.0 Gigabit Ethernet adapters don't exist and are physically impossible. End of story. You cannot refute this, much as I wish you could defy the laws of physics like that.

Thunderbolt Gigabit Ethernet adapters also don't exist...yet. It is entirely possible, but excluding using a 27" Thunderbolt display as one, I don't see them out on the market TODAY. I'm really happy that you don't have a need for a gigabit ethernet port, or an optical drive and I'm really stoked that you live in a bubble where magically, I'm the only one with these kinds of needs, but I hate to break it to you, you're wrong. Completely.

As for your assertion of 802.11ac, where is it? Can I buy a Mac with it today? Can I buy a router with it today without paying an arm and a leg? Even better, assuming the answers to those questions were even "yes" (which we all know isn't the case), would it be a subtantial amount of money more than just running a Gigabit Ethernet cable? Yeah, didn't think so. My recommendation for you is get off this website, go outside and realize that there are actually other people on this planet that share different opinions and beliefs than you and recognize that even if their opinions and beliefs aren't even in the majority (let alone your perceived majority), that the concerns that they have are still valid even if you don't relate to them. It'll do wonders to your character.

Bolded your contradiction.

So if you're a pro and your revenu stream depends on your computer, you'd still go with a hacked together solution that is not quite 100% legitimate, probably in breach of the licensing agreement with your OS vendor, on hardware that is "supported" by multiple different vendors ?

Yeah... no. Hackintoshes are not replacements for Mac Pros. Or Xserves. Or any other "pro" computer from Apple used by true professionals in the exercise of their profession.

Are they "viable" solutions for cheapskates who really don't need the power of a Mac Pro because they're just hobbyists with a spec fetish ? Sure, why not.

Following directions isn't hard for me. For the average nimrod, yes, they are hard. This is why I'll never recommend a computer novice to build a Hackintosh. For those that are neither nimrods, nor computer novices they are really pretty easy to set up and handle. The only time consuming activity requiring any real thought whatsoever (and again, we're talking about two hours tops) is picking which build/guide to build/follow.

Would I have any legitimate workplace build one? No, because as you say, it violates Apple's EULA, and as much as I feel that those rules are stupid, they are the rules and most legitimate workplaces like to follow rules as well they should.

As for would I go for a Hackintosh over an Xserve? Well, there is no more Xserve, so yes.

Would I go for a Hackintosh over a Mac Pro? Given the greater flexibility of video card options over the former, would make it appealing; however, if I wasn't to be doing anything graphics intensive but still requiring the muscle of a Mac Pro, I'd probably go with the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro is fantastic in all regards save for its video card offerings.

If we're talking Servers, then I'd absolutely go Hackintosh over Mac Pro or Mac mini as I don't need a graphics card to run a server, which means that I can most assuredly have a substantially cheaper (and far more flexible) OS X Server with a Hackintosh. If you want to talk about patching concerns, then might I remind you that even with Apple-made Macs, point release updates are big deals. The only difference in running one on a Hackintosh is that before clicking the restart button, you have to re-copy a couple files back to specific spots. Really no biggie.

Have you ever built one yourself? They're really nowhere near the pain in the ass that (a) they were pre-Snow-Leopard and (b) that people seem to think they are here.

"Low end" they may be, but RAM is so cheap now it doesn't make a big difference. The difference in cost between 4GB of RAM and 8GB is peanuts.

RRP (i.e., way above what apple would pay) of 8GB DIMMs is as low as 50 bucks. Apple would pay far less than that for the raw un-packaged memory chips, in bulk.

4GB may be enough today, but its going to be very restricting in the next couple of years, and the MBA has no upgrade path (unlike the previous low end macbook).

A max of 4gb is a MASSIVE deal breaker for many people, myself included.

If apple want to sell the MBA as the way of the future (as they have been) they need to future proof it better.

The MacBook Air is the common everyday laptop of the future. It's not the common ONLY laptop of the future. Most people with serious needs like that are better served by MacBook Pros. As for Apple selling 8GB of RAM for cheap, given that it still costs $200 from them as it stands today (where you can buy it as cheap as $40 on places like Crucial.com), don't count on it.

Hell, I'm even alright with people building Hackintosh machines as a hobby project and a challenge.

But the notion of using them in a production setting? *shudder*

That depends on how much you bill out. Time spent on "more maintenance" and research and compatibility checking is time you aren't making money.

Your "maintenance" and "reasearch and compatibility checking" should only take about two hours tops and unless you get paid the cost of the difference between a Hackintosh and an actual Mac in that amount of time, I'm pretty sure you actually SAVE money. If you enjoy learning about that computers, it's actually an enjoyable experience. Though you write this very clearly from the standpoint of someone who doesn't know any of this from actual experience. It's not like you need to ensure that anything beyond the OS itself will work. Apps don't care what kind of hardware you're using it on unless they have very very specific requirements (such as, you can only use an NVIDIA QUADRO card; though luckily, those cards exist for generic PC hardware as well and are easily integrated into a Hackintosh).

re: hackintoshes

If you're using one in business, you're insane.

No support, could be broken by an update at any time, of questionable legality (you realise you're breaking the EULA, right? and I'm quite sure the penalties for that sort of thing are a LOT bigger for a commercial entity).

But the biggest kicker is that computing purchases made for a business are a tax write off anyway. And time spent faffing about maintaining a hackintosh is going to impact production. If your machines generate revenue for the company at a rate of say, $1000-2000/day (which is not at all unreasonable), down-time spent screwing around getting a hackintosh to work will very quickly have a financial impact so big you may as well have just paid the "apple tax" and actually had vendor support if you need it.

As a hobby? Sure, go for it, I tried it for a while, but the need to screw about kinda defeats much of the purpose of using a mac for me. I'm a technical user - Unix admin by trade for 16 years and I have enough crap to deal with at work. I have FreeBSD as a hobby OS if i want to spend time doing that sort of thing....

A business would never use a Hackintosh out of legality reasons alone, so it's a moot point. As far as general reliability goes, as long as the person doing the maintenance isn't stupid and knows how to follow the directions (which, last I checked, is exactly the same for all sorts of Windows IT situations), maintaining a Hackintosh isn't hard. Period. I know that everyone on here is so bash*t in love with how "simple" and "elegant" the Macintosh is, but seriously, setting up a Hackintosh isn't hard and doesn't take all that long to do. Similarly, running point release updates isn't hard; before clicking the pulsing blue "restart" button, you have to copy some patches and drivers back to where they were when you first set up the machine. There are even programs that will automate that bit for you, if you so desire. Then you reboot, and magically you are up to date with OS X just like Joe Blow with his MacBook Pro. It's not that hard or complicated. It's only unreliable when you don't follow directions or pay attention. You don't need to pay a special staff to maintain your Hackintosh, you just need to clue whomever is doing your maintenance on what you're running and what guide you follow to do your initial set ups and patching. That's it!

We were talking about in a professional setting for Pros right ? Pros who when they aren't using their computers to produce content or do their actual core work are losing money instead of making it.

So yeah but no... It's insane to think a Hackintosh is a viable replacement, especially considering the questionable legality of it all, for an actual Pro doing actual Pro work (whatever the profession).

"Hey, where's the Mill acount ?"
"It's coming, we just have to find why the last update prevents the machines from booting, but Joe down in production thinks he found a forum post about missmatched kext's. We're firing up the hex editor and we'll have the shop back up in no time, if it works".

Again, barring legality, it's not hard to set up and maintain a Hackintosh, unless the person doing so is a nimrod or a computer novice, which last I checked were the last sorts of people to do maintenance on such machines in the first place. You only have the problems you're talking about when the person doing that is, again, a nimrod or a computer novice and not someone who should be working in IT to begin with.

Be warned though, those are big boy toys for people who actually do work with computers, not hobbyists who want to pretend they know something about IT.[/QUOTE]

Nice snide remark there. Actually, you learn far more about how Mac OS X works by building a Hackintosh than I'm sure most Mac IT people ever do, even the ACSP training doesn't teach you as much about how the software on an actual Apple-branded Mac works as building a Hackintosh does. Given that I have both built multiple Hackintoshes and hold my ACMT, ACSP and ACTC, don't mistake someone who is actually getting a pretty fantastic hands-on education on how Macs work from a software perspective (and thusly from an IT support perspective) for a "hobbyist" as that's somewhat insulting.

 

[throAU]

maintaining a Hackintosh isn't hard. Period.

No "period" about it.

If apple decides to kill the hackintosh scene tomorrow via more rigorous hardware checking, you're **** out of luck.

it doesn't matter how easy it is or isn't today - betting your future OS availability on Apple's continuing goodwill/tolerance is fine for hobby use, but if you're using it for anything more than that, good luck.

You don't need to pay a special staff to maintain your Hackintosh, you just need to clue whomever is doing your maintenance on what you're running and what guide you follow to do your initial set ups and patching. That's it!

Thus defeating much of the purpose of using Mac OS in the first place.

I'm not saying its rocket science. I'm saying it is faffing about (and risk, if apple decides to nobble the hackintosh scene) that just doesn't need to happen.

 

[throAU]

If you're in such a bad situation that the only solution is buy another mac, isn't that an option with a hackintosh as well?

You mean buy another hackintosh, or buy a genuine mac?

Because unless you can guarantee you're going to get the same hardware (which may/may not be available) you're going to have to go through the research of finding out what available hardware works, where you can buy all of it from, assemble the box, what kexts you need to load for it, reinstall the OS, etc.

Buying a genuine replacement? Go to apple store, pick up box, restore from backup. Job done, move on. Up and running as soon as your restore of critical data from backup completes, even less time if its on networked storage.

The MacBook Air is the common everyday laptop of the future. It's not the common ONLY laptop of the future. Most people with serious needs like that are better served by MacBook Pros. As for Apple selling 8GB of RAM for cheap, given that it still costs $200 from them as it stands today (where you can buy it as cheap as $40 on places like Crucial.com), don't count on it.

Its going to look pretty lame in the next couple of months when $600 dells are shipping with 8gb of RAM, isn't it.

 

[Yebubbleman]

No "period" about it.

If apple decides to kill the hackintosh scene tomorrow via more rigorous hardware checking, you're **** out of luck.

You say that like Apple is actually capable of putting such a patch in place that will prevent people like Maxxus, JaS, iATKOS from just finding another workaround. Like there isn't always a way to eventually exploit Mac OS X. Sure, that kind of attitude alone isn't enough to base any actual long-term reliability off of. However, the track record of it becoming EASIER to Hackintosh with each successive release of the OS rather than harder should say something. I don't think Apple is worried enough about Hackintoshers to keep them from doing it as easily as they are today as, again, it's not for those who are computer novices.

it doesn't matter how easy it is or isn't today - betting your future OS availability on Apple's continuing goodwill/tolerance is fine for hobby use, but if you're using it for anything more than that, good luck.

If I decide to build a Hackintosh running Lion today and Apple releases something in Mountain Lion that makes it harder for me to upgrade my machine to Mountain Lion, I do what most do and I don't buy Mountain Lion on day one and I wait for others to find an exploit and make it so that it is mind-numbingly easy for me to upgrade, then I upgrade at around the time that those who are naturally like to wait for the 10.x.1 update to come out to do the same. Again, once the machine is up and running, it functions exactly like any Apple-made Mac, running things like Final Cut Pro, Logic, or Motion just as well.

Thus defeating much of the purpose of using Mac OS in the first place.

I'm not saying its rocket science. I'm saying it is faffing about (and risk, if apple decides to nobble the hackintosh scene) that just doesn't need to happen.

Your "risk" is not even a real consideration for the aforementioned reasons. As for Hackintoshing defeating the point of using Mac OS in the first place, I assert that such is about as narrow-minded a point of view as can be had. Having to copy 3-5 kext files every time I want to run a point release update hardly makes it that drastically different of an OS nor does it make the experience of actually using Mac OS X when one is not running point release update installers all that different. At all other times of the day, the user experience is identical. It's like saying that driving a manual transmission defeats the point of driving a car to begin with, which is nonsense. I want greater control of what hardware my Mac desktop can have, and the only cost is spending an hour or two of my time researching, performing fifteen minutes of additional things before installation, and then a single minute dropping kext files where they are supposed to (and even that is an exaggeration of the time spent). Done. Extra work, yes. An entirely different user experience than buying and using a Mac mini or an iMac, hardly.

You mean buy another hackintosh, or buy a genuine mac?

Because unless you can guarantee you're going to get the same hardware (which may/may not be available) you're going to have to go through the research of finding out what available hardware works, where you can buy all of it from, assemble the box, what kexts you need to load for it, reinstall the OS, etc.

Buying a genuine replacement? Go to apple store, pick up box, restore from backup. Job done, move on. Up and running as soon as your restore of critical data from backup completes, even less time if its on networked storage.

You clearly haven't built a Hackintosh before and thusly, don't know any of this from actual experience. That's cool, I'm happy to enlighten you. Most parts can be bought on NewEgg. If the parts aren't available, follow a different guide and build as there will always be one for newer hardware. Assembling a PC is stupidly easy, and it's a skill that everyone (even the most devout of Mac users) should know how to do as it's a very useful skill to have.

As for your setting up stuff, that too really doesn't take all that much time. More than reloading OS X onto an Apple Mac, yes. Substantially more, no. I don't know where you get the idea that it takes all THAT much time, and really, for the cost of something like the higher-end Mac mini model, you end up with something that is easily twice as powerful, whereas you'd be spending much more money than the time spent dealing with the extra Hackintosh procedures is worth, unless you make a lot of money doing whatever it is you do.

 

[theluggage]

Well then I guess you consider people who own "real" macs insane as well, if one breaks it's still lost time = lost production = lost money.

...which is why any business with common sense and without a large in-house IT department takes out a support contract with Apple or a third party that offers on-site service, fast call-out, replacement machines etc. ...and I guarantee that any support contract you sign (assuming you're not dealing with a cowboy outfit) will have a clause saying that it does not cover machines running unlicensed software.

Oh, and while the chances of Apple going after a lone, home Hackintosh user are on the small side of zero, a business making extensive use of Hackintoshes is a more likely target - either for Apple or some self-appointed copyright enforcement outfit like the BSA. Many businesses will perform their own "software audits" periodically as part of their due dilligence and a Hackintosh on your desk would get you a free ticket to the disciplinary committee.

For a home user and hobbyist, or a one-man-band business where you don't bill yourself for the time spent fixing your computer (and the risk of getting busted for copyright is yours to take) then you may be happy with your hackintosh. Otherwise, it is not a viable option.

 

[Yebubbleman]

...which is why any business with common sense and without a large in-house IT department takes out a support contract with Apple or a third party that offers on-site service, fast call-out, replacement machines etc. ...and I guarantee that any support contract you sign (assuming you're not dealing with a cowboy outfit) will have a clause saying that it does not cover machines running unlicensed software.

Oh, and while the chances of Apple going after a lone, home Hackintosh user are on the small side of zero, a business making extensive use of Hackintoshes is a more likely target - either for Apple or some self-appointed copyright enforcement outfit like the BSA. Many businesses will perform their own "software audits" periodically as part of their due dilligence and a Hackintosh on your desk would get you a free ticket to the disciplinary committee.

For a home user and hobbyist, or a one-man-band business where you don't bill yourself for the time spent fixing your computer (and the risk of getting busted for copyright is yours to take) then you may be happy with your hackintosh. Otherwise, it is not a viable option.

Yeah, really the only thing making it not viable in any sort of business capacity is the illegality. Businesses tend to play by the rules when it comes to stuff like that, and that's why they will never be viable in businesses. That being said, most businesses don't tend to go for Macs anyway, they go for Dells and HPs with Windows as the total cost per machine is still cheaper even when you factor increased IT costs. So it's a REALLY moot point. For a lone user, or for a lone Server, yes, perfectly viable option (again, provided stupidity or inexperience aren't at play), but in the corporate world or even in any kind of business setting, it's not even worth discussing.

 

[KnightWRX]

Well then I guess you consider people who own "real" macs insane as well, if one breaks it's still lost time = lost production = lost money. And if you think that hackintoshes necessarily "break" more often then regular macs you're just ignorant of the facts. The last mac I bought had a hardware failure so I was without a computer for a few days while it was getting fixed under warranty. I've had my hackintosh for two and a half years without any down time.

Seems like some people picture hackintoshes suddenly bursting into flame or something.

You've never worked in an IT setting or an actual business it seems. Support contracts, Warranties, Vendors. Bread and butter. If something breaks, you have SLAs that will guarantee your downtime will be minimal or that it won't impact your business.

You can't get that with hackintoshes, not to mention that BSA audit right around the corner that might cost you dearly for being in breach of Apple's EULA and thus their copyright...

Again, if you have no clue about corporate IT, don't talk about corporate IT. We were discussing about Pros here, in the exercise of their Profession. Macs are a tax write off. It's not insane to buy from a vendor that will back its product.

Of course, being given the choice of vendors for my hardware, I would never use Apple stuff. No roadmaps, last minute releases, poor support options and no on-site fixing of products.

 

[cmChimera]

USB 2.0 Gigabit Ethernet adapters don't exist and are physically impossible. End of story. You cannot refute this, much as I wish you could defy the laws of physics like that.

I wasn't trying to. I suggested if you absolutely had to have gigabit ethernet then you could invest in an adapter. If the concern is as important as you say it is, adapters will be available for the need. Moving on.

Thunderbolt Gigabit Ethernet adapters also don't exist...yet. It is entirely possible, but excluding using a 27" Thunderbolt display as one, I don't see them out on the market TODAY. I'm really happy that you don't have a need for a gigabit ethernet port, or an optical drive and I'm really stoked that you live in a bubble where magically, I'm the only one with these kinds of needs, but I hate to break it to you, you're wrong. Completely.

No no no, you misunderstood. I didn't say you were the only one with those needs. I'm saying you are part of a minority.

Even better, assuming the answers to those questions were even "yes" (which we all know isn't the case), would it be a subtantial amount of money more than just running a Gigabit Ethernet cable? Yeah, didn't think so.

I just wanted to get this out of the way. You mean to say "Yeah, thought so." The answer to your rhetorical question is a positive one, since the point you are trying to make is that the methods I have proposed are more expensive than running a gigabit ethernet cable. You could say that you were answering the question of "Can I buy mac with it today" or "Can I buy a router with it today without paying an arm and a leg" but that would be grammatically inconsistent. Not to mention an astoundingly absurd question to ask considering you can't buy a Macbook Pro without an ethernet port at this point. Had it crossed your mind that if Apple did remove the port, they may decide to outfit it with 802.11ac support? Just a thought. This is a hypothetical product we are discussing, it makes no sense to tell me that Macs don't have the support for 802.11ac currently because it is an extremely obvious fact only equaled by the fact that I was speaking hypothetically in the first place. In summary, since I don't want to lose you, in the hypothetical situation that Apple removes the ethernet port from the Macbook Pro they may also, hypothetically I should add, outfit the device with support for better wireless.

 

[MacSince1990]

Exactly, and I for one welcome the change. And yes, for the record, I often find the need to use Ethernet cables. I'll happily use an adapter for those occasions though.

----------



Removing the Optical drive allows for quite significant redesigns that would allow for thinner and lighter laptops. They could easily maintain user replaceable ram and the high-end CPUs and dedicated GPUs. Now, if in the end they must maintain a certain minimal size that allows for ethernet ports, sure throw one in. But if they can get it to the size of the MBAs while keeping the dGPUs and quad core CPUs, I say chuck out the bulky ports.

You uh... realize slimming down a laptop design makes the max TDP it can handle... lower.. right?

 

[nutmac]

You need way more than two extra diagonal inches for the chassis to properly dissipate a quad-core. If Intel did a Quad-Core ULV, then that'd absolutely be possible in a 15" Air. But you won't see a discrete GPU as last I checked ULV discrete GPUs don't exist, and even if they did, the performance would be way worse than what we already see in the GPUs on the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros. As for $500 for 8GB of RAM and 512GB of SSD; given that they currently charge $200 for 8GB of RAM and given that a 512GB SSD typically retails at close to a grand, no, I don't think it's possible for Apple to charge only $500 for the bump of 8GB of built-in/soldered-onto-the-board RAM, at least not without claiming a loss on the whole thing altogether.

Regarding quad core CPU, nothing prevents Apple from making some concession on 15" MBA design to allow quad core. It doesn't have to aim for absolute "incredibly thin and light that's every bit as powerful and capable as one twice its size" mantra that smaller MBA siblings do.

While Apple does charge $200 to upgrade 4GB MBP to 8GB, 2x4GB from 3rd party is about $50. At some point, I expect Apple to offer 8GB at decent price, and offer 16GB (2x8GB) BTO option at extreme margin.

As for 512GB SSD, the cost to upgrade from 256GB SSD to 512GB isn't over a grand. It's $600. Taken together, it is not outrageous for Apple to offer 512GB SSD and 8GB RAM for $2500 15" MBA (given 13" MBA with 256GB SSD and 4GB RAM retails for $1600).

Again, my opinions are just pure speculation and you may very well be correct. But travel-oriented folks looking to buy a 15" notebook will demand more performance and capabilities than 11" and 13" segments, not absolute portability (since 15" is already not very portable).

 

[Yebubbleman]

I wasn't trying to. I suggested if you absolutely had to have gigabit ethernet then you could invest in an adapter. If the concern is as important as you say it is, adapters will be available for the need. Moving on.

My point is that you can't invest in an adapter. You have not addressed that point, though I have no problem with you conceding that you don't have a good counter to that argument and moving on.

No no no, you misunderstood. I didn't say you were the only one with those needs. I'm saying you are part of a minority.

I'm not a part of a minority, I'm part of a different market segment. There are still plenty of people out there that depend on things like gigabit ethernet and an internal optical disc drive and who don't see USB or Thunderbolt adapters or external optical disc drives as acceptable enough solutions. Luckily for us, Apple makes the MacBook Pro. For those for whom it doesn't matter, the MacBook Air is a perfect computer. I don't understand how people don't get that the two lines are distinctly different FOR A REASON!

I just wanted to get this out of the way. You mean to say "Yeah, thought so." The answer to your rhetorical question is a positive one, since the point you are trying to make is that the methods I have proposed are more expensive than running a gigabit ethernet cable. You could say that you were answering the question of "Can I buy mac with it today" or "Can I buy a router with it today without paying an arm and a leg" but that would be grammatically inconsistent. Not to mention an astoundingly absurd question to ask considering you can't buy a Macbook Pro without an ethernet port at this point.

It was sarcasm...me expecting that you wouldn't have a good response to my question. Sarcasm like that is used quite commonly with those having a debate.

Had it crossed your mind that if Apple did remove the port, they may decide to outfit it with 802.11ac support? Just a thought. This is a hypothetical product we are discussing, it makes no sense to tell me that Macs don't have the support for 802.11ac currently because it is an extremely obvious fact only equaled by the fact that I was speaking hypothetically in the first place. In summary, since I don't want to lose you, in the hypothetical situation that Apple removes the ethernet port from the Macbook Pro they may also, hypothetically I should add, outfit the device with support for better wireless.

802.11ac is all well and good, but last I checked there aren't any other routers on the market with 802.11ac on the market. If Apple were to introduce 802.11ac with the next revision of MacBook Pros alongside updated AirPort Extremes, AirPort Expresses, and Time Capsules, it would still take a long time for OTHER manufacturers to come out with such routers and EVEN THEN, the premium for an 802.11ac router would be just as impractical as the theoretical cost of a Thunderbolt Gigabit Ethernet adapter, so no, I don't see 802.11ac as a viable replacement to Gigabit Ethernet, at least not for a long while. It was a nice idea though.

Regarding quad core CPU, nothing prevents Apple from making some concession on 15" MBA design to allow quad core. It doesn't have to aim for absolute "incredibly thin and light that's every bit as powerful and capable as one twice its size" mantra that smaller MBA siblings do.

You'd need the 15" MBA to be substantially thicker to allow for quad-core. (You're going to have to trust me on this; I've taken apart tons of Unibody MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs.) At that point, it would be laughable to compare it to its siblings or even call it a MacBook Air at that point.

While Apple does charge $200 to upgrade 4GB MBP to 8GB, 2x4GB from 3rd party is about $50. At some point, I expect Apple to offer 8GB at decent price, and offer 16GB (2x8GB) BTO option at extreme margin.

First off, we're talking about third party RAM SO-DIMMS. Apple won't ever match their costs. Could they come down from $200 to $100 as easily as they did from $400 to $200, sure. More than that is extremely unlikely. Plus, Apple makes a decent amount of their money by charging more for components like that then they are realistically worth (case in point: their cost for hard drive upgrades when customizing a new Mac). Could they do it, sure. Would they, never. But again, that's talking SO-DIMMS. The MacBook Air uses RAM soldered onto the main logic board. While I can't imagine that costs them substantially more, they could easily make the case that it does and keep their $200-400 premium on it as a result and people would buy it. Again, most buying a MacBook Air don't need 8GB of RAM as their needs are, in many other ways already, better served by the MacBook Pro. A MacBook Air equipped with 8GB of RAM would serve much more of a niche market than these forums claim exist for a Mac laptop with a built-in optical drive.

As for 512GB SSD, the cost to upgrade from 256GB SSD to 512GB isn't over a grand. It's $600. Taken together, it is not outrageous for Apple to offer 512GB SSD and 8GB RAM for $2500 15" MBA (given 13" MBA with 256GB SSD and 4GB RAM retails for $1600).

I see your $600+$300 math there and will grant you that, however, you aren't factoring the extra screen real-estate which tends to cost MacBook Pro owners a good $200 extra when going from 15" to 17" (assuming all other internal specs are identical). Is that cost justified, probably not, but it's still what Apple charges.

Again, my opinions are just pure speculation and you may very well be correct. But travel-oriented folks looking to buy a 15" notebook will demand more performance and capabilities than 11" and 13" segments, not absolute portability (since 15" is already not very portable).

The 15" MacBook Pro is pretty portable for a quad-core laptop with a discrete GPU. An Ultra-book it is not, but I fail to understand how Ultra-books suddenly became the definition of "portable" whereas non-Ultra-books suddenly aren't. There are plenty of people who just buy the 15" MacBook Pro solely for the 15" of screen and don't care what processor or GPU exists underneath. In the Mid 2009 generation of MacBook Pros, the lowest-end 15" model didn't even have a discrete GPU and just used the same GeForce 9400 IGP/Chipset graphics that was used on all of Apple's other low-end machines. Many people I know bought that exact MacBook Pro and have never complained about lack of muscle despite it was more or less the same computer as a 13" MacBook Pro from the same generation. It's highly possible that there will be a 15" MacBook Air that simply replaces the current low-end 15" MacBook Pro model, leaving the higher-end 15" MacBook Pro as the ONLY 15" MacBook Pro alongside the 17". THAT I could see happening. But a quad-core MacBook Air that isn't substantially thicker than the current 13" Air is extremely unlikely.

 

[JohnDoe98]

You uh... realize slimming down a laptop design makes the max TDP it can handle... lower.. right?

That depends. If the design allows you to spread components out then there will be greater heat dissipation as compared to having all the components bundled in a rather restricted space. With the optical drive and the battery as they currently are setup in the MBP, all your components such as the CPU, GPU, etc. are stuck in a limited area on the motherboard. Remove the optical drive and you can now have a rectangular battery spanning across the entire bottom of the laptop, and you can now spread the other components across the top of the system right next to the air vents and fans. Being spread out and having greater heat dissipation should allow for more flexibility as far as the max TDP is concerned.

 

[Yebubbleman]

That depends. If the design allows you to spread components out then there will be greater heat dissipation as compared to having all the components bundled in a rather restricted space. With the optical drive and the battery as they currently are setup in the MBP, all your components such as the CPU, GPU, etc. are stuck in a limited area on the motherboard. Remove the optical drive and you can now have a rectangular battery spanning across the entire bottom of the laptop, and you can now spread the other components across the top of the system right next to the air vents and fans. Being spread out and having greater heat dissipation should allow for more flexibility a far as the max TDP is concerned.

Uh...no. That's not how these machines work. The optical drive either being present or not has very little to do with the heat dissipation of those machines. The fact that the main logic board is the shape that it is also has no bearing on heat dissipation as the same components are generating the same heat and with a decreased thickness there's a limited amount of places where that heat can go. Also worth noting, the fans on a MacBook Pro are substantially larger than those on a MacBook Air. This has everything to do with the heat generated by the components and little (if not nothing) to do with the fact that they are not spread out due to the presence of the nefarious optical drive. Also, on the 15" and 17" MacBook Pro models, there are two fans of this size, whereas on the 13" there is only one. While I know people on this site love the idea of the optical drive going away to give way to better machines, the simple fact of the matter is that they are actually doing very very very little (if anything at all) to inhibit that.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Uh...no. That's not how these machines work. The optical drive either being present or not has very little to do with the heat dissipation of those machines. The fact that the main logic board is the shape that it is also has no bearing on heat dissipation as the same components are generating the same heat and with a decreased thickness there's a limited amount of places where that heat can go.

I disagree. The primary way to dissipate the heat on these machines is the the air vents at the back of the laptop. The optical bay takes away a substantial amount of that area, roughly 30%. So the only conclusion I can arrive at is that the optical bay prevents a substantial amount of heat from dissipating. And for what? It offers only a minimal advantage over making it an external device. It is by most objective measures, just about totally obsolete for the vast majority of consumers.

Also worth noting, the fans on a MacBook Pro are substantially larger than those on a MacBook Air. This has everything to do with the heat generated by the components and little (if not nothing) to do with the fact that they are not spread out due to the presence of the nefarious optical drive.

Agreed, how thin you can make the machine will depend on how thin you can make those fans. But either way, removing the optical bay will greatly improve the ventilation within the system since you can spread those components out and allow the fans to work more efficiently. Thermodynamics makes it pretty clear, the heat wants to escape as fast as possible. And the most effective way to get it out is through the air vents at the back. Put more heat generating components along those vents and more heat will by necessity trickle out.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I disagree. The primary way to dissipate the heat on these machines is the the air vents at the back of the laptop. The optical bay takes away a substantial amount of that area, roughly 30%. So the only conclusion I can arrive at is that the optical bay prevents a substantial amount of heat from dissipating..

The optical drive doesn't block the air vents on the back of the laptop. Seriously man, you don't know what you're talking about. I have repaired dozens of MacBook Pros as part of my job; I know what I'm talking about when it comes to how these Macs are designed and where heat dissipation occurs. I have to. That's how I make my living.

And for what? It offers only a minimal advantage over making it an external device. It is by most objective measures, just about totally obsolete for the vast majority of consumers.

For the vast majority of customers on this site maybe, but most people I know only want to carry around their laptop when moving from room to room or location to location. They don't want to take with them any more than is absolutely necessary. For them an external ODD is inconvenient and I fail to see how so many people don't understand that.

Agreed, how thin you can make the machine will depend on how thin you can make those fans. But either way, removing the optical bay will greatly improve the ventilation within the system since you can spread those components out and allow the fans to work more efficiently. Thermodynamics makes it pretty clear, the heat wants to escape as fast as possible. And the most effective way to get it out is through the air vents at the back. Put more heat generating components along those vents and more heat will by necessity trickle out.

You really don't know what you're talking about. You cannot fit the CPU and GPU of a 15" MacBook Pro into the space of a would-be 15" MacBook Air simply because the latter would lack an internal optical drive. IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. If it did, you would see the same CPUs present in the 13" Pro also present in the 13" Air. But you don't, and you don't for the simple reason of THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ROOM! The same applies, if not WAY more on the 15". You cannot fit a non-ULV quad-core, let alone a non-ULV dual-core mobile chip in that thin of an enclosure. Thickness really does matter. The optical drive does very little to impede upon that. Don't believe me? Take apart a couple dozen MacBook Pros, troubleshoot heating problems, completely tear a few down, and see for yourself.

 

[JohnDoe98]

The optical drive doesn't block the air vents on the back of the laptop. Seriously man, you don't know what you're talking about. I have repaired dozens of MacBook Pros as part of my job; I know what I'm talking about when it comes to how these Macs are designed and where heat dissipation occurs. I have to. That's how I make my living.

Let's have a look shall we.

See that black bar at the top? Under it is all air vents. Now do you see how much space the optical drive bay takes? For you to claim that the optical drive bay doesn't block those vents is lunacy, as the images make obvious. And since I already explained to you that the air vents is where the primary heat dissipation takes place, this is a fact of physics, you are going to have to explain to me why removing the optical bay and placing other components up there wouldn't help. For starters, they could move up the HDD and already that would be much cooler in its new location.

For the vast majority of customers on this site maybe, but most people I know only want to carry around their laptop when moving from room to room or location to location. They don't want to take with them any more than is absolutely necessary. For them an external ODD is inconvenient and I fail to see how so many people don't understand that.

The vast majority of consumers don't need to carry around the external optical drive, in fact, they don't need it full stop. I fail to understand how you can't acknowledge that.

You really don't know what you're talking about. You cannot fit the CPU and GPU of a 15" MacBook Pro into the space of a would-be 15" MacBook Air simply because the latter would lack an internal optical drive.

Dude, you are off your rocker. The thing keeping the MBP so thick is its bulkiest component, the optical drive and its bay. As soon as that is out, the entire thing gets slimmer. The CPU and GPU already fit, and are very thin. This is how thin they already are, look at the orange and yellow, and the second image will give you an idea how much thicker the HDD, Optical Drive and Batteries are compared to everything on the motherboard:

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. If it did, you would see the same CPUs present in the 13" Pro also present in the 13" Air. But you don't, and you don't for the simple reason of THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ROOM!

No, you don't see the dedicated GPUs and stronger CPUs for the simple reason there isn't enough cooling since there is only one fan in the 11" and 13" MBAs, and no room for a second fan. Having a second fan isn't a problem for the 15" as you already see from the images above it has two such fans.

The same applies, if not WAY more on the 15". You cannot fit a non-ULV quad-core, let alone a non-ULV dual-core mobile chip in that thin of an enclosure. Thickness really does matter.

So let me get this straight, your reasoning and logic is if you remove the thickest, and biggest component (other than the battery which can be redesigned easily), you still don't have enough room to already include what is in the machine with that biggest component? That's borderline insanity there.

The optical drive does very little to impede upon that. Don't believe me? Take apart a couple dozen MacBook Pros, troubleshoot heating problems, completely tear a few down, and see for yourself.

I have tore down multiple MBPs. The first thing I do is remove that Optical drive and toss in a second HDD. With iCloud you don't need a second HDD so all that space is wasted, so far as I am concerned.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Let's have a look shall we.

See that black bar at the top? Under it is all air vents. Now do you see how much space the optical drive bay takes? For you to claim that the optical drive bay doesn't block those vents is lunacy, as the images make obvious. And since I already explained to you that the air vents is where the primary heat dissipation takes place, this is a fact of physics, you are going to have to explain to me why removing the optical bay and placing other components up there wouldn't help. For starters, they could move up the HDD and already that would be much cooler in its new location.

You clearly haven't taken these things apart. The heat vent isn't blocked by the optical drive. The optical drive sits flush in its bay. Again, don't take my word for it, ACTUALLY take one apart yourself.

The vast majority of consumers don't need to carry around the external optical drive, in fact, they don't need it full stop. I fail to understand how you can't acknowledge that.

A vast majority of consumers don't need an optical drive, but a vast majority of consumers would prefer one anyway. This is why the 13" MacBook Pro was and still is one of Apple's best selling Macs; otherwise by your logic, there's no reason to not go Air. Otherwise, why still sell the 13" MacBook Pro?

Dude, you are off your rocker. The thing keeping the MBP so thick is its bulkiest component, the optical drive and its bay. As soon as that is out, the entire thing gets slimmer. The CPU and GPU already fit, and are very thin. This is how thin they already are, look at the orange and yellow, and the second image will give you an idea how much thicker the HDD, Optical Drive and Batteries are compared to everything on the motherboard:

You are delusional if you think that the optical drive is the only thing keeping the MacBook Pro thicker. At best, you could taper it slightly. Otherwise, you lose out on the discrete GPU and a lot of the ports, and customers of the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros will not go for that. Not every Apple customer (not even a majority of Apple customers) thinks that the MacBook Air is the best thing since sliced bread, I'm sorry.

No, you don't see the dedicated GPUs and stronger CPUs for the simple reason there isn't enough cooling since there is only one fan in the 11" and 13" MBAs, and no room for a second fan. Having a second fan isn't a problem for the 15" as you already see from the images above it has two such fans.

Way to completely avoid my point. You suck at this whole trolling thing. I'll give you one last chance to save grace: why do we not see the 13" MacBook Pro's CPUs in the 13" MacBook Air? There's no discrete GPU in either machine, and according to your logic, with no optical drive, we should be able to see that same CPU exist by virtue of there being no optical drive to prevent heat dissipation. Please explain this, because last I checked, such assertions were the real lunacy.



So let me get this straight, your reasoning and logic is if you remove the thickest, and biggest component (other than the battery which can be redesigned easily), you still don't have enough room to already include what is in the machine with that biggest component? That's borderline insanity there.[/QUOTE]

It's nowhere near the "bulkiest" or "biggest" component. It's about as thick as the hard drive at its thickest point and is otherwise preventing no such advancement in engineering nor thermal dissipation. Don't know if you pay attention, but resting underneath the ODD are the speakers, which themselves take up a degree of thickness. Are you saying we should take those out too?

I have tore down multiple MBPs. The first thing I do is remove that Optical drive and toss in a second HDD. With iCloud you don't need a second HDD so all that space is wasted, so far as I am concerned.

If you have torn down multiple MBPs, you wouldn't be citing images, you'd be citing experience. Also using iCloud in lieu of a second hard drive, and you claim that I'm the one off my rocker? Right because 5GB of online storage really makes up for 500+GB of storage. Because all one would ever need a second hard drive for is the last 1000 photos taken, or iWork documents. And I'm the one off his rocker. Alright, cool. You have fun in troll-land.

 

[JohnDoe98]

You clearly haven't taken these things apart. The heat vent isn't blocked by the optical drive. The optical drive sits flush in its bay. Again, don't take my word for it, ACTUALLY take one apart yourself.

The entire bay is blocking the vent left to the left fan in the pictures above. How can you not see that? Are you blind? The plastic housing the vent also prevents heat from dissipating through the bay and out that vent. In effect, the left most vent serves the only purpose of cooling the optical drive that is just about never used and needs no cooling.

A vast majority of consumers don't need an optical drive, but a vast majority of consumers would prefer one anyway. This is why the 13" MacBook Pro was and still is one of Apple's best selling Macs; otherwise by your logic, there's no reason to not go Air. Otherwise, why still sell the 13" MacBook Pro?

The vast majority wanted floppy drives when Apple chucked them out, for the better.

You are delusional if you think that the optical drive is the only thing keeping the MacBook Pro thicker. At best, you could taper it slightly. Otherwise, you lose out on the discrete GPU and a lot of the ports, and customers of the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros will not go for that. Not every Apple customer (not even a majority of Apple customers) thinks that the MacBook Air is the best thing since sliced bread, I'm sorry.

I already told you why you can keep the discrete GPU. But you are right about the ports. But I say good riddance to those too. Thunderbolt and USB 3 can replace them effectively, and from the Apple's standpoint on Thunderbolt that I posted earlier in the thread, they seem to agree.

Way to completely avoid my point. You suck at this whole trolling thing. I'll give you one last chance to save grace: why do we not see the 13" MacBook Pro's CPUs in the 13" MacBook Air? There's no discrete GPU in either machine, and according to your logic, with no optical drive, we should be able to see that same CPU exist by virtue of there being no optical drive to prevent heat dissipation. Please explain this, because last I checked, such assertions were the real lunacy.

I already said you need two fans for those more powerful CPUs, which the 13" Air doesn't have space for. But the 15" in enclosure can easily accommodate two fans.

It's nowhere near the "bulkiest" or "biggest" component. It's about as thick as the hard drive at its thickest point and is otherwise preventing no such advancement in engineering nor thermal dissipation. Don't know if you pay attention, but resting underneath the ODD are the speakers, which themselves take up a degree of thickness. Are you saying we should take those out too?

The drive itself is, perhaps, as thick as the HDD, but you will notice in the pictures, the HDD requires no bay, whereas the Optical drive does, adding a little more thickness to the entire thing.

If you have torn down multiple MBPs, you wouldn't be citing images, you'd be citing experience. Also using iCloud in lieu of a second hard drive, and you claim that I'm the one off my rocker? Right because 5GB of online storage really makes up for 500+GB of storage. Because all one would ever need a second hard drive for is the last 1000 photos taken, or iWork documents. And I'm the one off his rocker. Alright, cool. You have fun in troll-land.

Clearly you have no clue as to what iCloud is. As you know, there is a thing called iTunes Match, which lets you store your entire music library in the cloud. That saved me 300gbs. And now that iCloud supports redownloading of movies, that frees up much more space too. No need to keep huge movie libraries either since so many of them are instantly available online. And if you didn't already know, you can upgrade your 5GB. So, really, what do you need local storage for?

 

[Yebubbleman]

The entire bay is blocking the vent left to the left fan in the pictures above. How can you not see that? Are you blind? The plastic housing the vent also prevents heat from dissipating through the bay and out that vent. In effect, the left most vent serves the only purpose of cooling the optical drive that is just about never used and needs no cooling.

No, I've actually had hands-on time with the things and know that your pictures are from an angle where you can't actually see what's blocked and what's not.

The vast majority wanted floppy drives when Apple chucked them out, for the better.

At a time when software and media came on optical disc and at a time when nothing came out on floppy. Poor analogy, but, okay.

I already told you why you can keep the discrete GPU. But you are right about the ports. But I say good riddance to those too. Thunderbolt and USB 3 can replace them effectively, and from the Apple's standpoint on Thunderbolt that I posted earlier in the thread, they seem to agree.

Both your faith as well as Apple's faith in Thunderbolt mean nothing if it doesn't catch on anywhere outside of Cupertino.

I already said you need two fans for those more powerful CPUs, which the 13" Air doesn't have space for. But the 15" in enclosure can easily accommodate two fans.

This is where you REALLY don't know what you're talking about. You would still need the larger fans to cool the machine with or without either optical or hard drives. I don't know why this is such a hard concept for you to grasp.

The drive itself is, perhaps, as thick as the HDD, but you will notice in the pictures, the HDD requires no bay, whereas the Optical drive does, adding a little more thickness to the entire thing.

The HDD requires no bay? This is news to me given that in every Unibody MacBook Pro that there has ever been, there has always been a cavity etched out of the aluminum for the hard drive. Want me to send you the service manuals? I have a feeling you can learn a lot from them.

Clearly you have no clue as to what iCloud is. As you know, there is a thing called iTunes Match, which lets you store your entire music library in the cloud. That saved me 300gbs. And now that iCloud supports redownloading of movies, that frees up much more space too. No need to keep huge movie libraries either since so many of them are instantly available online. And if you didn't already know, you can upgrade your 5GB. So, really, what do you need local storage for?[/QUOTE]

Oh, so you're saying that $25 a year is a viable replacement for a second hard drive, given that iTunes Match only stores music. Also, not sure if you're aware of this, but neither iTunes Match nor iTunes in the Cloud support streaming things from iTunes on anything that isn't an AppleTV. You can stream music on iOS devices, but not TV shows, movies, or other video. Trust me, I know what iCloud is and I know enough about it to know that while it's a fantastic thing for iOS and iTunes, and while it will be a fantastic thing for Mountain Lion equipped Macs, it's nowhere near as useful in terms of space as a second hard drive.

 

[JohnDoe98]

At a time when software and media came on optical disc and at a time when nothing came out on floppy. Poor analogy, but, okay.

Well everything from Apple will only come out from downloads so it's kinda similar.

Both your faith as well as Apple's faith in Thunderbolt mean nothing if it doesn't catch on anywhere outside of Cupertino.

Don't need any faith. Even if Thunderbolt doesn't catch on, so long as Apple provides adapters for the ports they strip, that's all that is needed.

This is where you REALLY don't know what you're talking about. You would still need the larger fans to cool the machine with or without either optical or hard drives. I don't know why this is such a hard concept for you to grasp.

Nobody said anything about shrinking the current fans. As they are, they are already thinner than the optical bay/drive. You think the fan in the MBA is any different from the ones in the MBPs? The Pros only have more.

The HDD requires no bay? This is news to me given that in every Unibody MacBook Pro that there has ever been, there has always been a cavity etched out of the aluminum for the hard drive. Want me to send you the service manuals? I have a feeling you can learn a lot from them.

Right, but there is no extra bay as there is for the optical drives. Why didn't Apple etch out cavities for those optical drives? Ever stop to ask yourself that question?

Oh, so you're saying that $25 a year is a viable replacement for a second hard drive, given that iTunes Match only stores music.

Yes.

Also, not sure if you're aware of this, but neither iTunes Match nor iTunes in the Cloud support streaming things from iTunes on anything that isn't an AppleTV. You can stream music on iOS devices, but not TV shows, movies, or other video.

So what's the big deal about streaming? When you run out of space, the second you download new music it deletes the old. No need to worry about the difference between streaming and downloading and playing, so far as iOS devices are concerned. And if you didn't know, you can stream music on your desktop.

Trust me, I know what iCloud is and I know enough about it to know that while it's a fantastic thing for iOS and iTunes, and while it will be a fantastic thing for Mountain Lion equipped Macs, it's nowhere near as useful in terms of space as a second hard drive.

What do you need the space for?

 

[throAU]

I don't think Apple is worried enough about Hackintoshers to keep them from doing it as easily as they are today as, again, it's not for those who are computer novices.

Care to bet your livelihood on that?

If I decide to build a Hackintosh running Lion today and Apple releases something in Mountain Lion that makes it harder for me to upgrade my machine to Mountain Lion,

Who said anything about mountain lion? Say there is a critical security update required for the currently shipping versions of OS X (as in, 0-day, being exploited in the wild, in one of the older kexts that you need to copy back to your hackintosh to get it to work) and the fix (new kext) breaks your hackintosh. What do you do?

You clearly haven't built a Hackintosh before and thusly, don't know any of this from actual experience.

Wrong. Done it, got the t-shirt. Ran one for some time before upgrading from my mini to my MBP as my primary machine. Its an Intel Q6600 currently running FreeBSD as a NAS.

I still woudn't use one in a business environment.


Look, i know it must feel cool breaking the rules and "Sticking it to the man" in your bedroom living with your folks, but out there in the real world, people care about things like service agreements and lost productivity due to downtime.

Running a hackintosh in a business environment is a risk, both legally and productivity/support wise. It is a risk that can be avoided for a trivial (in the context of running a business) amount of money. That is able to be written off on tax anyway.

You've clearly had no exposure to the business world, so I'm not going to argue with those of you in this situation any further. Believe what you want. Try and run a business on hackintoshes if it floats your boat. You may even manage to do it if you're only administering a couple of machines.

But in a real-life, professional environment, it is asking for trouble you just DON'T need, and wasted time that would be better spent actually DOING YOUR JOB and earning money.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Well everything from Apple will only come out from downloads so it's kinda similar.

Right because Apple is the only Mac software developer out there. Yeah, kinda similar. Oh wait, no, it's not!

Don't need any faith. Even if Thunderbolt doesn't catch on, so long as Apple provides adapters for the ports they strip, that's all that is needed.

Which they don't and so far have announced no plans to. You were saying?

Nobody said anything about shrinking the current fans. As they are, they are already thinner than the optical bay/drive. You think the fan in the MBA is any different from the ones in the MBPs? The Pros only have more.

This is where I know for a fact that you've never repaired either machine, because I know for a fact that you are incorrect here. TROLL BETTER!

Right, but there is no extra bay as there is for the optical drives. Why didn't Apple etch out cavities for those optical drives? Ever stop to ask yourself that question?

Both drives have etched cavities. I don't need to ask myself any questions as I have repaired and disassembled enough of these machines to know that you haven't a single leg to stand on.

So what's the big deal about streaming? When you run out of space, the second you download new music it deletes the old. No need to worry about the difference between streaming and downloading and playing, so far as iOS devices are concerned. And if you didn't know, you can stream music on your desktop.



What do you need the space for?

Any number of things. I'm running out of space on a 1TB volume, between movies, torrents, Apple Service Manuals and diagnostics, music, Virtual machines, games, apps, app data, documents, tons...but I use my computer for more than facebooking, iTunes, and e-mail. The MacBook Air doesn't do enough for my needs.

Care to bet your livelihood on that?

Sure, though I'd prefer to use a laptop Mac and you can't Hackintosh those anywhere near as easily. But yeah, I could bet my livelihood on a Hackintosh, because I have confidence in my ability to follow instructions and I know what I'm doing and thusly I won't brick my machine. Also, given that I actually know enough about Mac OS X, it is extremely easy to set up any provision in the extremely unlikely event that anything should brick my OS.

Who said anything about mountain lion? Say there is a critical security update required for the currently shipping versions of OS X (as in, 0-day, being exploited in the wild, in one of the older kexts that you need to copy back to your hackintosh to get it to work) and the fix (new kext) breaks your hackintosh. What do you do?

That's kind of like asking me what I'd do in the event of an alien invasion. There is no known life within light years of Earth, so it's a moot point. Similarly, that problem has never existed and likely never will. BUT, if it does, I will read up on the forums about what to do about it like anyone with a head on their shoulders.

Wrong. Done it, got the t-shirt. Ran one for some time before upgrading from my mini to my MBP as my primary machine. Its an Intel Q6600 currently running FreeBSD as a NAS.

You must've either sucked at following directions or picked a bad build. Either that or you had bad experiences doing it with 10.4 or 10.5 and thusly have no clue about how far it has come since then. Though I hate assumptions as much as the next guy, so I'll say that however the case, your perception of it is warped.

I still woudn't use one in a business environment.

Thank you captain obvious. Legality alone makes it impractical. Were it not for that, it'd be completely feasible if the person doing maintenance wasn't a moron.

Look, i know it must feel cool breaking the rules and "Sticking it to the man" in your bedroom living with your folks, but out there in the real world, people care about things like service agreements and lost productivity due to downtime.

Look, I know you must feel cool telling someone on these forums about what it's like to be a grown up as though they are not one themselves like some high and mighty tool, but the fact of the matter is that (a) between certifications and actual Mac IT experience, I could school the crap out of you and (b) Hackintoshes are not hard to set up and not hard to maintain. They are illegal by virtue of Apple's EULA, and yes, service agreements beat having to service machines yourself or with your own IT staff, which why I have repeatedly stated that for business settings they are impractical (if you paid any attention to what I've said rather than trying to insult me, you'd have picked up on that).

Running a hackintosh in a business environment is a risk, both legally and productivity/support wise. It is a risk that can be avoided for a trivial (in the context of running a business) amount of money. That is able to be written off on tax anyway.

Again, I never said that they were a practical replacement in a business setting. For your own personal Mac, it's fine. For a Mac that you personally use and maintain to get things done, it's fine. In a business setting, it is impractical. How many freakin' times do I need to say that before you realize that I actually agree with you on that point? Sheesh!

You've clearly had no exposure to the business world, so I'm not going to argue with those of you in this situation any further. Believe what you want. Try and run a business on hackintoshes if it floats your boat. You may even manage to do it if you're only administering a couple of machines.

Really, I'd run my business on Windows as it's cheaper and more flexible than Mac OS X will ever be for large scale environments, whether Mac OS X is running on an Apple-made Mac or a Hackintosh. As for my personal machine, Mac OS X will always be my OS of choice, and I'd always rather it be on a portable machine, so I'll go the MacBook Pro route over a MacBook Air or a Hackintosh any day of the week. But if I needed a desktop Mac, I wouldn't shy away from it due to fears of yours that aren't even substantiated.

But in a real-life, professional environment, it is asking for trouble you just DON'T need, and wasted time that would be better spent actually DOING YOUR JOB and earning money.

If by professional environment, you mean a business or corporate environment, sure. If you mean a computer used to produce content that is used to make money, you're wrong, but whatever man. While you care more about not listening to the opposing argument and belittling your opponent, I don't see a point to debating with you.

 

[throAU]

I already said running one as a hobby was fine. I've done it myself.

You waded in, essentially called anyone who can't maintain one an idiot (I never claimed it WAS hard - its just faffing about i can't be bothered spending my limited free time on), and "you just need to clue anyone in who is doing your maintenance" (i.e., suggesting that it is fine to run one in a business setting where the user is not the IT support). Go and re-read my original post you quoted, and see for yourself.

in fact, here you go

Originally Posted by throAU View Post
re: hackintoshes

If you're using one in business, you're insane.

No support, could be broken by an update at any time, of questionable legality (you realise you're breaking the EULA, right? and I'm quite sure the penalties for that sort of thing are a LOT bigger for a commercial entity).

But the biggest kicker is that computing purchases made for a business are a tax write off anyway. And time spent faffing about maintaining a hackintosh is going to impact production. If your machines generate revenue for the company at a rate of say, $1000-2000/day (which is not at all unreasonable), down-time spent screwing around getting a hackintosh to work will very quickly have a financial impact so big you may as well have just paid the "apple tax" and actually had vendor support if you need it.

As a hobby? Sure, go for it, I tried it for a while, but the need to screw about kinda defeats much of the purpose of using a mac for me. I'm a technical user - Unix admin by trade for 16 years and I have enough crap to deal with at work. I have FreeBSD as a hobby OS if i want to spend time doing that sort of thing....

My free time is worth more to me than the cost savings by hackintoshing my home PC. YMMV.

 

[benspratling]

What makes you think the 2012 MacBook Air won't have a 8GB option ? Because the last one didn't ?

How about we wait and see what Apple actually ships before we start whining uh ?

The reason they didn't offer a 8 GB option before was because it was soldered on to the motherboard and ordering 8 GB logic boards would have either been too low volume, or they would have gotten stuck with unusuable boards as people wouldn't have been purchasing these.

What made sense in 2011 maybe won't in 2012, so it's really just dumb to whine about it before Apple shows its cards.

Seesh! Did you even read my post? There are no current 8 GB RAM MBA, but I want one! That said, I'm whining because I want one. Would we have ever gotten rid of the hockey puck mouse if we didn't whine enough?