ACTUAL Antenna Expert Speaks: iPhone 4 Woes Overblown

[dscuber9000]

LOL exactly. Totally credible in my opinion

Wait, I'm a civil engineer at Cal Poly and I did my own OBJECTIVE and LENGTHY test proving that I get dropped calls by using the grip of death. Do I win?

Except this guy is president of an antenna company, making him a little more credible than you.

 

[Maverick1337]

But but but but but but but but.....I used an objective and lengthy method.

 

[Rhonen]

I predict a lot of back-tracking defenders once antenna expert dude gets his own iphone 4 and does in-depth testing like Anandtech.

 

[Ronnoco]

I predict a lot of back-tracking defenders once antenna expert dude gets his own iphone 4 and does in-depth testing like Anandtech.

Didn't Anand also say that the iP4 had better reception than the 3GS and in fact the iP4 held calls and data better than any iPhone yet released?

 

[Chimpware]

Are you really shocked that no one wants to give you their phone?

Ok, you can ship it yourself to the testing lab, now what?

 

[bobr1952]

Did they perform a thorough study with controls to make sure it's not something else that's causing the difference in reception? For instance, try with and without a case perhaps or even try without holding the bottom antenna? Without the necessary controls, one can't say with certainty that the problems were due to iPhone 4 antenna. I'm not saying that it wasn't due to antenna, but it could've been from other signals issues like weak AT&T signal.

The article states that this was a quick on-the-fly test done by their engineers. They plan for a more objective review in the coming week. So if read the story, you should already know the answers to your questions.

 

[Rhonen]

Didn't Anand also say that the iP4 had better reception than the 3GS and in fact the iP4 held calls and data better than any iPhone yet released?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review
Anandtech said the ip4 can hold onto a call with a lower (db) signal than the 3GS:

From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use

HOWEVER, he goes on to say that the antenna design is still inherently flawed because it is on the OUTSIDE of the phone, and a bumper or non-conductive coating should be included by Apple:

Add in an external antenna you're essentially forced to touch and bridge to another adjacent antenna while holding, and the signal attenuation is even worse. The fact of the matter is that either the most sensitive region of the antenna should have an insulative coating, or everyone should use a case. For a company that uses style heavily as a selling point, the latter isn't an option. And the former would require an unprecedented admission of fault on Apple's part.

The main downside to the iPhone 4 is the obvious lapse in Apple's engineering judgment. The fact that Apple didn't have the foresight to coat the stainless steel antenna band with even a fraction of an ounce worth of non-conductive material either tells us that Apple doesn't care or that it simply doesn't test thoroughly enough. The latter is a message we've seen a few times before with OS X issues, the iPhone 4 simply reinforces it. At the bare minimum Apple should give away its bumper case with every iPhone 4 sold. The best scenario is for Apple to coat the antenna and replace all existing phones with a revised model.The ideal situation is very costly for Apple but it is the right thing to do. Plus it's not like Apple doesn't have the resources to take care of its customers.

 

[Chimpware]

What is a joke is your inability to even comprehend such a simple article.

They didn't make any conclusions based on the bars, they made actual phone calls.

If you are going to be so persistently whiny and upset, and least pretend your understand what is going on.

"We succeeded in taking a five-bar display and reducing it to one bar by doing that," Webb says. "But the call remained solid and never dropped."

Oh sorry, I missed the main scientifically irrefutable conclusion "the call remained solid" and you are right, no reference is made to the signal bars...

What is a joke is non-technical morons publishing crap like this claiming to be experts.

 

[Ronnoco]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review
Anandtech said the ip4 can hold onto a call with a lower (db) signal than the 3GS:

HOWEVER, he goes on to say that the antenna design is still inherently flawed because it is on the OUTSIDE of the phone, and a bumper or non-conductive coating should be included by Apple:

So, better at holding calls than the 3GS, but a design flaw in the array = the phone sucks?
I'm not sure what you're driving at here...if the phone holds calls "much better" in "actual use" than the previous one, shouldn't that be a good thing?

 

[Chimpware]

Interesting this was left out of PC world article:

"I realize this says more about my local signal strength than it does about the phone."

Go read the actual article, reads a bit different:

http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys-blog/2010/7/2/first-impressions-iphone-4.html

 

[Rhonen]

So, better at holding calls than the 3GS, but a design flaw in the array = the phone sucks?
I'm not sure what you're driving at here...if the phone holds calls "much better" in "actual use" than the previous one, shouldn't that be a good thing?

What I'm driving at here is that people are using antenna expert's blog post to prove that this reception issue is overblown. Anandtech showed it isn't overblown because despite being a better antenna, putting it on the outside is a "lapse in engineering judgement" and "would require an unprecedented admission of fault on Apple's part" and believes Apple should fix it with free bumpers or a coating, which Apple has not done.

So I predict defenders backtracking because when antenna expert comes to the same conclusion after doing in-depth testing (not just 5 minutes with a friend's iphone), all those using this antenna experts blog as proof will change their mind if he ends up agreeing with anandtech.

 

[Sean4123]

What I'm driving at here is that people are using antenna expert's blog post to prove that this reception issue is overblown. Anandtech showed it isn't overblown because despite being a better antenna, putting it on the outside is a "lapse in engineering judgement" and "would require an unprecedented admission of fault on Apple's part" and believes Apple should fix it with free bumpers or a coating, which Apple has not done.

So I predict defenders backtracking because when antenna expert comes to the same conclusion after doing in-depth testing (not just 5 minutes with a friend's iphone), all those using this antenna experts blog as proof will change their mind if he ends up agreeing with anandtech.

I love it when I read a post like this, then notice that the user has joined in June 2010, and I check his other recent posts. I always find a sad, sad individual that has wasted countless hours on macrumors.com, arguing with others about the dreaded iPhone 4 signal loss issue. This phone has truly crushed many peoples hopes and dreams and has made them snap. They've snapped to the point that they are dedicating their lives to proving that the iPhone 4 is a terrible product and is even the reason for the AIDS epidemic and the genocides in Dafur!

 

[Rhonen]

I love it when I read a post like this, then notice that the user has joined in June 2010, and I check his other recent posts. I always find a sad, sad individual that has wasted countless hours on macrumors.com, arguing with others about the dreaded iPhone 4 signal loss issue. This phone has truly crushed many peoples hopes and dreams and has made them snap. They've snapped to the point that they are dedicating their lives to proving that the iPhone 4 is a terrible product and is even the reason for the AIDS epidemic and the genocides in Dafur!

I love it when I read ironic posts like this. You not only read my post, but spent time replying to it as well. Who wasted time again?

 

[Chimpware]

I love it when I read a post like this, then notice that the user has joined in June 2010, and I check his other recent posts. I always find a sad, sad individual that has wasted countless hours on macrumors.com, arguing with others about the dreaded iPhone 4 signal loss issue. This phone has truly crushed many peoples hopes and dreams and has made them snap. They've snapped to the point that they are dedicating their lives to proving that the iPhone 4 is a terrible product and is even the reason for the AIDS epidemic and the genocides in Dafur!

As opposed to you, who's posts all defend Apple, and typically with no information or facts, just personal attacks including "join date" which you have used more than once?

 

[Ronnoco]

What I'm driving at here is that people are using antenna expert's blog post to prove that this reception issue is overblown. Anandtech showed it isn't overblown because despite being a better antenna, putting it on the outside is a "lapse in engineering judgement" and "would require an unprecedented admission of fault on Apple's part" and believes Apple should fix it with free bumpers or a coating, which Apple has not done.

i'm still not following...if the phone indeed holds calls better in "real use" than any other iPhone, what eactly is the problem?

 

[hexonxonx]

I'm sure that will fix it, but no one should have to pay extra money to fix a hardware design flaw. This thread is whether the antenna issues are overblown, having to insulate the phone with a case basically proves that there is an issue with the antenna design**.

**The percentage of phones affected is uncertain, but its not all of them.

Funny this is, this is a hardware "design flaw" that carried over from the 3GS.

I had my 3GS in a case from day one. I took that case off a few days ago and used it for a day without that case. I was so shocked when holding my iPhone in the "death grip" and the bars dropped to 0 and I couldn't make a call. I had no idea that this problem existed on the 3GS as well because of using it with a case since day one.

 

[Rhonen]

i'm still not following...if the phone indeed holds calls better in "real use" than any other iPhone, what eactly is the problem?

If you only care about read world use, then why do you care what antenna experts or anandtech say with indepth testing? If your phone works for you, what more do you want?

edit: I should add anandtech's test show that despite being a better antenna, touching it (because it is on the outside) results in a greater net loss in signal strength than touching any other iphone. So while it is the best iphone antenna, it's put in the worst location, resulting in worse real world use for many.

 

[0dev]

I'm interested to see what will happen with this new update, I think it's a similar issue to the iPad WiFi thing TBH, Apple just don't want to admit there was any trouble with the antenna.

 

[Ronnoco]

If you only care about read world use, then why do you care what antenna experts or anandtech say with indepth testing? If your phone works for you, what more do you want?

That is kinda what many of us are saying about the issue possibly being a bit "blown out of proportion"...
IMO, real world use is the primary function...if the phone works better than the previous model, why are people insisting that the iP4 is "fatally flawed" and a massive failure?
I understand people discussing the "tech" aspect of the controversial antenna array and those that are having an issue dropping more calls than they did with their previos iPhone have a legit beef with Apple, but declaring a "massive fail" and insisting on a "total product recall" is overblown and ridiculous IMO...

EDIT: I just now saw your edit...and I agree that those with a "real use" call dropping problem do have reason to question Apple's design, but this whole thing about "every phone is seriously flawed" is a bit over the top. Many of us are getting better real world use than we did with our 3GS...

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

I just did some "experiments" with my iPhone 4. Nothing scientific or methodological, just anecdotal. Take it for what it is. I always suspected Apple's bars as being wrong since the first iPhone. My Verizon AT&T phone showed one or two bars of signal at my house. Always. Then iPhone comes along and all of a sudden I'm getting 4 and sometimes 5 bars in the same place. AT&T must have upgraded its network! It's about time!

However... people can still barely hear me just like before, my calls drop just like before, and when I hold my iPhone 3GS and 4 in a certain way I can get the call to drop just like I can on my previous Blackberry and Palm Treo. Giving my iPhone 4 the "grip of death" takes me from 5 full bars to no service within a short period of time in the same way holding my Palm Treo in my left hand takes me from its more accurate 1-2 bars to a dropped call. The result is the same using three different smartphones, yet the iPhone's appears especially severe due to the inaccurate signal bar display.

On the freeway and in my car with 5 bars, I am unable to lose even 1 bar using the death grip - still 5 solid bars. At the office where I suffer from fringe reception and frequent dropped calls, I can take my iPhone 4 from 3 bars to no service with the death grip just as I can do the same to the iPhone 3GS by cupping it on all sides with my hands. Same result, two different smartphones.

I'm certainly not defending Apple, but I have to say that this appears to be a non-issue for me because my iPhone 4 does not behave any differently than my previous 3GS, Blackberry and Palm Treo in the same places and under similar conditions. iPhone 4 is just getting the most attention because the perceived signal loss appears to be far greater due to the inaccurate bar display. What Apple is essentially saying with its press release is this... we understand you're all pissed because you think you're losing all of your signal, so we are going to make the bars more accurate so that it shows that you're losing far less signal than you think. Will that piss people off less? Let's see.

Now consider this. I just brought my 5 bars down to 1 using the death grip. I repeated this a second time with a piece of insulative clear plastic between my palm and the phone's metal bad. Same result - 5 bars dropped to 1. So in my case it's not even the death grip itself, but my hand's proximity to the antennal. No different than any other phone.

 

[daver11]

i have the antenna issue and have yet to have a dropped call. I've talked an hr+ straight with no problems at all.

I'm having the opposite experience. I can't make my bars drop by holding the phone, but I am getting dropped calls. I never had any dropped calls with my 3GS (I'm serious - not even one. ever. (i live in phoenix).) I had 4 dropped calls my first weekend with the 4.

However, I'm so happy with the phone overall, I'm just going to put up with it. My bumper is on its way from China. Maybe that will fix it.

 

[Sean4123]

As opposed to you, who's posts all defend Apple, and typically with no information or facts, just personal attacks including "join date" which you have used more than once?

Take your phone back "chimpware" and go get a life.

 

[Ronnoco]

I'm having the opposite experience. I can't make my bars drop by holding the phone, but I am getting dropped calls. I never had any dropped calls with my 3GS (I'm serious - not even one. ever. (i live in phoenix).) I had 4 dropped calls my first weekend with the 4.

However, I'm so happy with the phone overall, I'm just going to put up with it. My bumper is on its way from China. Maybe that will fix it.

Perhaps that first weekend's dropped calls were due to network congestion since tens of thousands of iPhone were sold in the Phoenix area alone that weekend...I know here in San Diego, the network was a nightmare that weekend...things have gotten better since then...just a thought...

 

[Rhonen]

That is kinda what many of us are saying about the issue possibly being a bit "blown out of proportion"...
IMO, real world use is the primary function...if the phone works better than the previous model, why are people insisting that the iP4 is "fatally flawed" and a massive failure?
I understand people discussing the "tech" aspect of the controversial antenna array and those that are having an issue dropping more calls than they did with their previos iPhone have a legit beef with Apple, but declaring a "massive fail" and insisting on a "total product recall" is overblown and ridiculous IMO...
EDIT: I just now saw your edit...and I agree that those with a "real use" call dropping problem do have reason to question Apple's design, but this whole thing about "every phone is seriously flawed" is a bit over the top. Many of us are getting better real world use than we did with our 3GS...

Anandtech, at least, didnt' call it a total product recall or massive fail. He said Apple should just provide free bumpers at least, best case replace phones with new ones with a coating.

Just saw your edit, too. Anandtech agrees and said there will be cases where you get better reception. But still, he feels the design itself is flawed due to the location of the antenna, not the antenna itself, provides ideas for solutions to solve it. His overall review of the phone is glowing praise, yet despite that, he feels the antenna problems is large enough that it should be addressed and fixed by apple.

 

[Chimpware]

Take your phone back "chimpware" and go get a life.

I will return my phone if an when I decide, and certainly not on the advice of an obvious imbecile.