Additional Details About Apple's New MacBook and MacBook Pro Keyboard Service Program

[simonmet]

Apple needs to get in the game, being premium provider doesn't just mean looking & feeling nice, it also means being reliable & performant... Q-6

Agreed. I've come to realise lately that reliability, dependability and longevity are probably my greatest needs and requirements, especially in a 'pro' laptop. If I use my laptop every day for work as I have in the past then downtime of a week or more without it is significant. I've actually had to take leave from work for this very reason. I'm not able to just buy a new one on the spot and return it a week later, not that I condone abusing the returns policy anyway.

When I've serviced my MacBook Pro in the past, Apple have said I should consider their corporate hiring program, but that is hardly suited to individuals with a limited budget who only need one machine. This seems like an area where Apple could improve the customer experience; maybe make loaners an additional benefit of the AppleCare Plus program.

 

[GreatDrok]

While it would appear that my 2015 MB is covered, that has the first gen butterfly mechanism and honestly, in the three years I've had it I've never had the keys stick or not respond and the thing is a real filth magnet. I just wipe it down and carry on. The only problem I've got with the keyboard is the left command key has developed a hole in the black where my thumbnail has worn through but I can easily get a replacement keycap. It looks to me that the 2nd gen butterfly mechanism is the problem one.

 

[Lone Deranger]

Great timing! My 2016 tbMBP stopped charging over the weekend. A quick search shows it to be an irreparable issue (internet says bad battery cell?) and needing full laptop replacement. We'll see what the Genius bar says but I couldn't get an appointment for 3 days! And no telling how long for a solution after that.

It's Monday and I have to work so I am quickly scrambling to set up a Windows PC. With Lenovo or Dell you can get next day on-site support for the same price as an Apple Care plan. I feel we are all suffering from Apple's sales success.

I hear ya. My late 2013, 13 rMBP is in need of a battery replacement and Apple quotes me 1-2 weeks to swap it out. Unacceptable. In fact, I was shocked when they told me this.

I can’t help but feel this piss-poor service is a deliberate strategy to tease people into buying a new product rather than suffer the decreasing level of support for older products.

As I mentioned before, if you design a product that requires such compromises that you can no longer provide premium level support (ie. same day and in-store), you have to wonder wether you moved backwards rather than forward.

 

[hajime]

As I recall, 10 years ago they just kept replacing the same motherboard with that defective Nvidia GPU.

 

[space1nvaders]

I miss the old keyboards.

My biggest complaint is the left/right cursor is too big and the up/down too small. Then there's just the horrible feel of the keys. Oh, and the touchbar that I try to disable. Oh wait, the Escape key which has no feel. Oh and hitting the touchbar by accident. Wait I forgot about the huge trackpad that bumps up against the spacebar.

I just use a nice external keyboard 99% of the time and love it.

 

[SteveW928]

It's still not entirely clear if the replacement keyboards have been slightly revised to address the issues that prompted the service program in the first place. Apple has been fairly communicative with me about this program, but has so far skipped right over this question when asked.

I think, then, we have our answer on this one...

I know I am the minority, but besides this issue, this keyboard is my absolute favorite out of any.

I was told that even though I don’t have Apple Care, though I am almost expired in the one year hardware coverage, that if the issue arises again at any time Apple will repair my machine an unlimited number of times. I hope it doesn’t require service again though!

But, what does it matter if it keeps breaking? I could probably get used to typing on it (based on the time I've spent setting up and using my son's 2017 13"), but even if it became my favorite (which I doubt), it has to keep working to be of use.

Are you saying you got some kind of indication that they will keep fixing it forever (not just 4 years, as stated)? I've yet to keep a MBP less than 4 years (at least those I've purchased, and weren't company issued).

 

[dollystereo]

So they're replacing a keyboard with an inherent design flaw with exactly the same unit? Aren't they delaying the inevitable again or are they hoping to spin this out beyond the terms of the extended return period and that as their laptops are sold on and become 2nd or 3rd hand owners will care less?

They could end up with a lot of re-returned units.

They always do that, with the 2011 MBP (Radeon issues) they would just replace your logic board with another faulty one. Had 2 of those, they last about 6 months each. Now there is no repair program anymore.

 

[Janichsan]

You clearly think I don’t know what I’m talking about but please do some research before replying.

Thanks for the kind reminder. And here I thought digging up the tear downs of the devices in question – which you didn't – counts as research. Silly me.

 

[aevan]

I miss the old keyboards.

Yes, and the old ports, and the SD card slot, and you miss Steve Jobs - we get it. The narrative here is getting a bit stale. Everyone knows these keyboards are divisive.

 

[Appleaker]

Yeah, that iFixit blog post is strange. Even though the bullet points are prefaced with "Retina MacBook 2017 and MacBook Pro 2017 Teardown Highlights," my impression is that the keyboard details only relate to the 2017 12-inch MacBook (second-generation butterfly, just like both the 2016+2017 MacBook Pro) vs. 2016 12-inch MacBook (first-generation butterfly).

That may be the case although at least the 'thinned out frame' seemed to be referring to both. But regardless, the true difference could be as small as a 0.1mm increase in the silicon thickness. Whatever it is, it is tangible for a lot of people, and I doubt it's some sort of placebo effect since Apple made no comments about the keyboard and nobody expected the change.

 

[smirking]

The Magic Keyboard has no issues (aside from the version with numeric keypad bending under normal use), and is a much nicer keyboard. I'd be thrilled if the portables got that keyboard instead.

Really? Anyone know why the Magic Keyboard doesn't suffer from similar issues when it's the same key mechanism?

 

[Appleaker]

Thanks for the kind reminder. And here I thought digging up the tear downs of the devices in question – which you didn't – counts as research. Silly me.

Well... yeah it does. ‘Research’ can mean a simple google search, it doesn’t have to be extensive. You didn’t think it was research so didn’t do it?
But really I was talking about also looking at others comments about the 2017 keyboard and how it feels different, since you appeared to have no knowledge of the tangible difference as you assumed I meant the move to the Butterfly gen 2 keyboard.
As for a linked post, there’s no point in making that excuse when the merged post directly below my reply includes a link to the blog post, in reply to someone else.
Anyway, there’s no point arguing over a keyboard so let’s agree to disagree when it comes to the change.

 

[Janichsan]

Really? Anyone know why the Magic Keyboard doesn't suffer from similar issues when it's the same key mechanism?

The Magic Keyboard doesn't use the butterfly mechanism, but has somewhat redesigned scissor keys.

 

[Dodgeman]

I think you misunderstood something here: iFixit found a difference in the keyboards between the 2016 and 2017 models of the MacBook. The 2016 MacBook still had the original, first generation butterfly mechanism. All MacBooks and MacBook Pros that came after that – and that includes the first butterfly keyboard MBPs released in 2016 – had the second generation butterfly mechanism. iFixit's teardown of the 2017 13" MBP found no differences in the keyboard mechanism to the previous model.

Is one supposedly better than the other?

 

[JosephAW]

Good thing my 2012 non retina MBP isn't subject to this and is still going strong.

 

[Janichsan]

Is one supposedly better than the other?

The 2nd generation has a little more key travel and better feedback for key presses, but it's obviously not more reliable or anything.

 

[finalcut]

I don’t know why the iFixit CEO, whose teadown showed a difference between 2016 and 2017 keyboard, is claiming that there is no difference at all. The mechanism hasn’t changed but it is tweaked.

Many people that have tried it notice the difference, myself included, despite the claims by people on this forum claiming otherwise simply from the fact that Apple didn’t mention it, and without having tested it themselves.

are you saying that this because of the design problem it is malfunctionning? I have a 2016 13inch MBP with touchbar and I do not suffer this problem. Is it just a matter of time before mine goes into problem as well?

thank you

 

[smirking]

I have a 2016 13inch MBP with touchbar and I do not suffer this problem. Is it just a matter of time before mine goes into problem as well?

If you've had your laptop for over a year and its been without issue, it'll probably continue to be without this issue. Most people aren't having any problems.

It always COULD get affected, but the people who are complaining of the issue seem to be getting it pretty early on. I've actually had some keyboard problems myself, but they went away after a while.

 

[Appleaker]

are you saying that this because of the design problem it is malfunctionning? I have a 2016 13inch MBP with touchbar and I do not suffer this problem. Is it just a matter of time before mine goes into problem as well?

thank you

No, nobody is really sure about how the durability compares, but the 2017 is reportedly more durable, or at least less prone to this issue. Apple state that it's a small percentage of MacBooks, although they say that all the time, so there's no telling whether you will experience the problem too. The design itself may not be the main issue, but instead how dust interferes with the design. So basically it will depend on your usage. But if you do experience the issues, then you'll have until 2020/2021 to get a free replacement keyboard.

 

[finalcut]

that is good to know. I didnt know ppl complaining were having their problem early on. thanks for the info guys

 

[gnipgnop]

The Magic Keyboard doesn't use the butterfly mechanism, but has somewhat redesigned scissor keys.

Scissor mechanism keyboards have the same issues. I've had more than one desktop scissor keyboard with keys that don't work after a period of time, and if you Google 'keyboard problem' and combine that with any other laptop manufacturer on the planet, you'll see people talking about sticky keys, individual keys that fail, inconsistent keyboard behavior, and also total failure of the keyboard. There's nothing foolproof about the scissor mechanism.

 

[AnthonyHarris]

Unpopular opinion incoming: Now that I have gotten used to the keyboard on my 2017 MBP and 2017 MB, I prefer it to the keyboard on my 2017 MacBook Air. I make a lot more mistakes on my air than I do my MBP and MacBook for some reason. At first thought I hated the new keyboard, but I've had both machines for about a year now and changed my mind. That is unfortunate about the keyboard issues though.

I dont think that this will be an unpopular opinion with everyone here. It is definitely a love / hate thing. I like the feel overall. It is just rubbish that is has a seemingly high failure rate.

I tried to use an old keyboard the other day and my fingers were tripping over the keys. Less travel for me means a quicker, more effective typing experience... Until the dust settles in, I guess.

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My biggest complaint is the left/right cursor is too big and the up/down too small. Then there's just the horrible feel of the keys. Oh, and the touchbar that I try to disable. Oh wait, the Escape key which has no feel. Oh and hitting the touchbar by accident. Wait I forgot about the huge trackpad that bumps up against the spacebar.

I just use a nice external keyboard 99% of the time and love it.

I find the arrow keys hard to locate, and Siri is always getting tapped. If you are typing for a period of time maybe the touch bar should lock or switch off until you pressed the power button or something? (Stupid idea, I know ,but hey.)

 

[tipoo]

I may have to take advantage of this. Unlike others I do love the keyboard…but hate hate hate how much it sticks. And i'm not a crumby person! I don't usually eat/drink around my laptop. Or…do anything else "sticky" for that matter, lol.

Yeah, I hope the next refresh doesn't completely eliminate the clicky feel, just fixes the dust problem.

Heck, if they fix the dust problem, why not go all the way and make it splash resistant, I've seen many a macbook key go that way.

 

[CausticSoda]

Kudos to Apple for doing this. Keyboards are the most advanced part of any computer so when problems like this occur we should applaud them for taking up the mantle so quickly and efficiently.

Is that some sort of sarcastic joke? I bought a first gen MacBook 12" and part of the keyboard turned into an unpredictable disaster zone after about a year. (And for what it is worth, the battery needed replacing after only two years). I'm so glad I paid top dollar for such a quality bit of kit (not).

The repair quotation for the keyboard was outrageous, so I just lived with the problem. I was told by the "Genius" it would have been due to dust / food / split drinks / whatever, which I knew not to be true; I look after my stuff. Three years later Apple are finally forced into admitting it is their fault. Finally! So, the applause is for what, exactly? They should have come clean years ago.
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My battery is failing, do they replace top when they do battery replacement?

Mine went within two years. I had to pay for a replacement. Unimpressive.

 

[smirking]

I tried to use an old keyboard the other day and my fingers were tripping over the keys. Less travel for me means a quicker, more effective typing experience...

I do have to point out that the old keyboard you're using as a test case is a garbage keyboard that doesn't age well. Most cheap keyboards stiffen due to the key switch mechanism (rubber domes) and keypresses begin to vary in amount of force that they'll take and the switches lose fluidity.

If you like the short travel, even a nice keyboard probably will be less effective, but because of the keyboard you're using as your reference point, you're getting an especially harsh view of the other side.

I generally like the new keyboard, but I still prefer a nice mechanical switch external keyboard. I like the current MBP keyboard better than the vaunted 2015 style that everyone swoons over. The 2015 style isn't bad, but I like something clickier.

I find the arrow keys hard to locate

Ugh, that is my #1 complaint about the MBP keyboard. They should have kept to the old style of arrow keys that gave you a little more texture to work with. Also, my arrow keys seem to be less sensitive than the rest of the keyboard. It takes extra force to get them to activate so even when I'm hitting the right arrow keys, I think I'm not because I'm not hitting them hard enough.