crux of issue.
although, one could argue that he did understand, and simply chose to spit the company line of flash is better in every instance, every time, no matter what the situation.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Adobe CTO on Flash's Effect on Battery Life, Apple's Negative Campaigning
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
crux of issue.
although, one could argue that he did understand, and simply chose to spit the company line of flash is better in every instance, every time, no matter what the situation.
In other news, Adobe Chief Technology Office Kevin Lynch claims, "War is peace, Freedom is slavery, Ignorance is strength."
Keep repeating something long enough, eventually someone will start to believe it.
Keep repeating something long enough, eventually someone will start to believe it.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)
Betamax! Haha!
We love Adobe for what they have supplied us with in the past to design and create, but to think that Apple has no right to shape the technology world the way they want to is wrong. This is another example of a jealous company defending a losing battle. There are plenty of options out there for people who want a smart phone or netbook to view flash content and more developers earning a living by making convert apps and programs to view flash on devices incapable.
I've liked flash, just like a liked HyperCard, but move with the times, battery life on portable products will always be an issue (until full solar products are running ahead of their usage) so again, let's aim for the quickest and stylish solution for the end user and make it easy and available to all.
2 cents.
cmfilms said:
Betamax! Haha!
We love Adobe for what they have supplied us with in the past to design and create, but to think that Apple has no right to shape the technology world the way they want to is wrong. This is another example of a jealous company defending a losing battle. There are plenty of options out there for people who want a smart phone or netbook to view flash content and more developers earning a living by making convert apps and programs to view flash on devices incapable.
I've liked flash, just like a liked HyperCard, but move with the times, battery life on portable products will always be an issue (until full solar products are running ahead of their usage) so again, let's aim for the quickest and stylish solution for the end user and make it easy and available to all.
2 cents.
I'm not sure why he is blaming Apple for negative campaigns against Flash when it was Ars Technica that performed the test without Apple's involvement. Adobe is merely trying to rally the Apple haters to support Flash at this point. Seems to be the only hope.
what else is he going to say? Ars has a good reputation for being pretty neutral and technically savvy.
Why should we care.
If they did their homework, we wouldn't go out of our way to avoid their software/content.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)
There isn't a test out there that shows otherwise. In fact, many show that HTML5 uses more processor usage vs a similar page built with Flash.
Stop drinking the Apple cool-aid and read for yourself.
tripjammer said:
There isn't a test out there that shows otherwise. In fact, many show that HTML5 uses more processor usage vs a similar page built with Flash.
Stop drinking the Apple cool-aid and read for yourself.
I've met Kevin Lynch IRL, he seemed pretty cool. If he and Jobs sat down with a bottle of Rose they'd learn they have more in common than not. Lynch is all about 'teh cloud' (though he'd rather do it via ADBE Air).
Of course there is a test that shows otherwise - the Ars Technica test that precipitated all of this! A macbook air running only HTML5 ran for two hours longer than a macbook air running with flash enabled.
No - they aren't. They are being quite active in trying to squash flash. That's not called being the messenger. It's called trying to take the role of dictator. It's a bit different. Not that I expect you to agree
I thought this part of the CTO's quote was funny. Of course what Apple is "inciting" is counter to Adobe's values. Apple isn't Adobe and Apple is doing what is valuable to Apple. Since Adobe isn't a partner of theirs, why would they care. Apple is trying to push a Flash alternative, HTML5, and that is the business model they want.
Hey Adobe, it's called competition. Why don't you try and revise and streamline Flash to run more efficiently so it doesn't run so much on CPU cycles?
Regardless, as other folks have said, install ClickToFlash and you're golden. You can see the Flash content you want and block all the garbage that you don't want. Or you can plain uninstall Flash altogether.
All test i've read and done show flash is slower and power hungry. Never seen the opposite, but seems someone see just what they want to see
this is what happens when an outfit like Apple challenges the establishment. Most in the tech game are lazy lazy lazy. Flash is garbage. I have a 2 ghz macbook aluminum from 2008 with 2 gig of ram and when I goo into a flash laden site like the Nike.com all hell breaks out.
I wonder if the problem isn't so much Flash, but with the plugin architecture itself? Flash developers are writing code in Actionscript which is executed by a plugin within a browser application; with little hardware acceleration.
That doesn't strike me as an efficient runtime model.
HTML5 isn't going to be massively better, but at least it's cutting out one 'layer'; the plugin. Javascript code is executed by the browser itself. That alone should give some improvement.
That doesn't strike me as an efficient runtime model.
HTML5 isn't going to be massively better, but at least it's cutting out one 'layer'; the plugin. Javascript code is executed by the browser itself. That alone should give some improvement.
let's not oversimplify the issue.
Adobe is saying that an animated ad in flash and THE SAME ANIMATED ad in HTML5 will use similar battery. This statement is correct. Since ads currently are replaced with static ads (nothing to do with HTML5) then they use less battery since there is no constant rendering happening.
When flash is not mainstream advertisers will not be happy with static ads. Your ads will be just as animated using HTML5, and use similar battery.
Adobe is saying that an animated ad in flash and THE SAME ANIMATED ad in HTML5 will use similar battery. This statement is correct. Since ads currently are replaced with static ads (nothing to do with HTML5) then they use less battery since there is no constant rendering happening.
When flash is not mainstream advertisers will not be happy with static ads. Your ads will be just as animated using HTML5, and use similar battery.
Are you really that dumb? it wasn't doing the same with flash disabled. Make a html5 site with heavy html5 and no flash animation, guess what... Suddenly it will be a 2 hour lead for flash...
Two main parties have closed off Flash on the iOS platform. Neither is Apple (their role is an important but distant third):
1. Adobe closed it off by not having Flash working—working well—on mobile platforms, or even on the Mac itself, for ages. And even today, when some tiny fragment of Android users now have Flash, it’s not working all that well. Working well, to me, means consistently well, not just “sometimes.”
2. Reality closed it off because fingers are not mice, and fingers don’t have rollovers. New Flash content can be developed that doesn’t need the things a touchscreen lacks. But reality is currently full of Flash content that just isn’t much good on a touchscreen, and cannot be without the developers of that content re-doing it. (Flash is much more than video. It’s games and navigation menus, etc., ...and yes, ads, too)
Apple could go ahead and support Flash despite those major problems, and Apple’s users would blame Apple for the resulting poor experience. It’s not like Apple has any way out that dodges complaints from someone.
I know how rarely the lack of Flash bothers me on my iPhone. And I know how often the PRESENCE of Flash would bother me as it slowed down my browsing, drained my battery, and in the end, often presented content that simply didn’t work right anyway!
As a web developer, I’d love to have my Flash sites working on iPhone. But what I want is Flash working consistently WELL, not Flash as a marketing bullet point and PR topic. And that’s something that doesn’t exist on any mobile platform yet. How can Apple change that? They can’t. Only Adobe—and the passage of time—can change that. But I suspect that before that ever happens, non-Flash tools will emerge instead. Maybe from Adobe! I hope they’re great when they arrive.
1. Adobe closed it off by not having Flash working—working well—on mobile platforms, or even on the Mac itself, for ages. And even today, when some tiny fragment of Android users now have Flash, it’s not working all that well. Working well, to me, means consistently well, not just “sometimes.”
2. Reality closed it off because fingers are not mice, and fingers don’t have rollovers. New Flash content can be developed that doesn’t need the things a touchscreen lacks. But reality is currently full of Flash content that just isn’t much good on a touchscreen, and cannot be without the developers of that content re-doing it. (Flash is much more than video. It’s games and navigation menus, etc., ...and yes, ads, too)
Apple could go ahead and support Flash despite those major problems, and Apple’s users would blame Apple for the resulting poor experience. It’s not like Apple has any way out that dodges complaints from someone.
I know how rarely the lack of Flash bothers me on my iPhone. And I know how often the PRESENCE of Flash would bother me as it slowed down my browsing, drained my battery, and in the end, often presented content that simply didn’t work right anyway!
As a web developer, I’d love to have my Flash sites working on iPhone. But what I want is Flash working consistently WELL, not Flash as a marketing bullet point and PR topic. And that’s something that doesn’t exist on any mobile platform yet. How can Apple change that? They can’t. Only Adobe—and the passage of time—can change that. But I suspect that before that ever happens, non-Flash tools will emerge instead. Maybe from Adobe! I hope they’re great when they arrive.
Again, no. You do know that you have to view Flash content for it to eat battery life. The fact it is installed in and of itself does not impact the battery.
This sounds about right.
Run the test again when HTML5 Canvas animations are a common thing. Right now, there's just no HTML5 content out there besides some videos and a few canvas demo sites I'm sure Ars didn't bother to visit.
you for got something. Apple more than likely using undocumented API for it HTML5. And is not allowing flash to have access to the graphic acceleration and forcing it to kick to the CPU.
Add in Apple is allowing HTML to have graphic acceleration. You need to compare the 2 on a windows computer to see that it is about the same because you do not have to deal wth BS that apple throws in.
I used to use that too until I read this: http://daringfireball.net/2010/11/flash_free_and_cheating_with_google_chrome
This is a much better idea. You actually rarely see the dead spots on a page. Web developers substitute other content when you actually don't have Flash installed. And you can just fire up Chrome (with its own self-contained Flash plugin) if you really need it.
HTML5 does not fire up my fans and suck down my CPU. I'd love to know the sites you are referring to.
Really? Dictator? Since they have a very small percentage of the cell phone market and even a minority of the smartphone market how can they be dictators? Since they have a small percentage of the PC market and you can still install Flash if you want, how are they being dictators? Let's not forget that Flash is not installed by default on a PC either unless the PC manufacturer adds it to Windows. If Flash is as great as Adobe thinks it is then it will win the day. Apple will not be able to stop it by themselves. It just seems like everyone has a Mac or iPhone.
Cue the apple fanboys recycling the turtle necked overloaded butt hurt over flash. I also have news about the MacBook air, when playing games (what few that are avaiable for Mac) battery life goes down.
What gets me is that both Apple and Adobe have issues with the stuff they make - of course they do as it's all complex stuff. When Apple have an issue, they keep quiet (which can be frustrating for those awaiting a fix) but they get the problem fixed asap via a software update or, in extreme cases, an upgraded product.
Adobe, on the other hand, deny the problem exists. And if you're not going to admit that a problem exists (or even keep quiet about it but know it exists) then there's little or no chance of you ever fixing it, is there?
Ever since Adobe allowed users who'd bought JUST Photoshop 7 to upgrade to Creative Suite 3 cheaper than I could upgrade the COMPLETE CS2 (which cost me over a grand) - AND they wanted 55% more from me than from US customers (which is way more than the acceptable and understandable percentage increase) - they've gone steadily down in my estimation. They seem to me to be a bloated company with bloated software, bloated (UK) prices and increasingly bloated ideas of their own importance.
And yes, on occasion I LOVE Flash content - I even create stuff in Flash - but 99% of the time, when browsing the web, I wish it would just sod right off!!!
Adobe, on the other hand, deny the problem exists. And if you're not going to admit that a problem exists (or even keep quiet about it but know it exists) then there's little or no chance of you ever fixing it, is there?
Ever since Adobe allowed users who'd bought JUST Photoshop 7 to upgrade to Creative Suite 3 cheaper than I could upgrade the COMPLETE CS2 (which cost me over a grand) - AND they wanted 55% more from me than from US customers (which is way more than the acceptable and understandable percentage increase) - they've gone steadily down in my estimation. They seem to me to be a bloated company with bloated software, bloated (UK) prices and increasingly bloated ideas of their own importance.
And yes, on occasion I LOVE Flash content - I even create stuff in Flash - but 99% of the time, when browsing the web, I wish it would just sod right off!!!
That's exactly what I'm worried about. I love Flash a lot, and you should, too. No I'm not crazy, let me explain. Right now Flash ~= unwanted content, so we can block them by not using this completely optional plugin. Sooner or later the entire Web will be HTML5, and then we'll no longer be able to separate the useful content from the junk. HTML5 is not a plugin that we can simply disable, it'll be just HTML, as simple as that. Garbage will be part of the normal content, and unless someone develops some form of an AI, it'll be very hard to keep things in control.
And I believe this is exactly why Steve doesn't like Flash and pushes HTML5 instead. Apple started their anti-Flash campaign when they got into the online advertisement business. That might not be a coincidence. If HTML5 prevails, we won't have an easy way to extend our battery life and fight overly annoying animated ads that fill the entire screen. Trust me, a few years from now we'll all miss the good old Flash days, when it was so easy to weed unwanted content.