Adobe Executive Kevin Lynch Discusses Flash on Mac, iPhone, and iPad

[err404]

Do you people live in the real world, or in some walled off garden where everyone wears white?!!!!

I assume that you are a Windows user, but I live in a world where Flash is such crap on my Macs that I can not smoothly playback a video in HD with a 2.4Ghz C2D. Even a single flash applet pegs my CPU, if I open more then a few tabs my browser freezes or crashes. That is not acceptable. Even Adobe admits that Flash for OSX and Linux are not up to par with other implementations and your surprised that Jobs dislikes Flash? Flash would hurt the iPad, just as Flash hurts Snow Leopard.

Why are you excusing inept web designers who are creating pages that will not render correctly in a standards compliant browser? Like I said, it is fine to use Flash, but a site should render appropriately with out it. That's why the standards exist! It is these web designers that are ruining my web experience, not Apple.

My point was that since Flash is not a standardized web technology, we are unable to create and install a better Flash VM. We left at the mercy of Adobe. If Flash is so damn important, Adobe should be pushing to have it added by W3C.

WWW does not stand for "Windows Wide Web"

 

[MorphingDragon]

Reality check? Flash on the web is NOT used only for video. It is used for a lot more, which will not be so easily replicated by HTML5 in the near future.

Reality check? Go to a major site, like Disney or Nike, on the iPhone, then check them out on your desktop. The desktop version, which is in Flash, provides a much, much richer experience. Experience which you'll totally miss on the iPad without Flash.

But guess what. With their Flash sites, businesses reach 95%+ of their target audience, and don't care about the losers who for whatever religious reasons "hate" Flash.

Just watch what happens to the iPad, without Flash. It will be another Apple TV. A bunch of the faithful will rush to buy, but when the general public figures out that their web experience is severely limited, Apple will start getting returns, just like they did with Apple TV.

Then, there are a bunch of Android tablets in the pipeline, some with cameras, full Flash, larger screens and multitasking. The Apple UI is still a bit better and it may outweigh some these.

But, surfing the web is a big advertised feature of the iPad, perhaps the biggest, and if it's crippled by the lack of Flash, it will soon turn the iPad into the joke Apple TV has become.

I've never seen a single flash orientated Website that couldn't be done using Javascript and the HTML5 video tag.

If a web designer doesn't know Javascript and CSS, don't use them.

 

[Terminal.app]

Just last year I took a course in web design/programming at a tech school, and the teacher was this die-hard Flash fanboy who tried to convince us that if our websites weren't in Flash, then a) our websites sucked, and b) we wouldn't be real web designers. He also forced us to test our sites in IE "because that's what everybody uses" while ignoring Firefox and Safari.

I really hope to God that teacher doesn't represent too many people out there. Hopefully he was just some random lunatic and Flash really is on the way out.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Just last year I took a course in web design/programming at a tech school, and the teacher was this die-hard Flash fanboy who tried to convince us that if our websites weren't in Flash, then a) our websites sucked, and b) we wouldn't be real web designers. He also forced us to test our sites in IE "because that's what everybody uses" while ignoring Firefox and Safari.

I really hope to God that teacher doesn't represent too many people out there. Hopefully he was just some random lunatic and Flash really is on the way out.

That teacher doesn't represent any good design schools I know of. Natcol even pushes Javascript and CSS to its students.

 

[ibeam]

My own opinion is that apps developed natively, whether that be iPhone, iPad, Android, Chrome OS, or Windows 7 Mobile, will be superior to Flash CS5 apps. YMMV

Apps developed natively is not what you think since nobody writes in assembly language targeting an instruction set. Everything is complied from a higher language. xcode in one instance and Flash in the other. There is no logical reason to assume that the one compiler is better than the other. It is entirely up to the programmers and designers to create the compelling part... not the compiling part.

 

[whooleytoo]

I've never seen a single flash orientated Website that couldn't be done using Javascript and the HTML5 video tag.

Is that true? Is there a way of easily streaming a webcam using HTML5 & Javascript?Is there a Flash Interactive Server equivalent for HTML5?

We have a Flash-based collaboration whiteboard that lets users work together on the same page , see each others cursors, see what each other is doing, with each user's webcam appearing in a dashboard - is there a way of doing now that in HTML5?

 

[little.pm]

Is that true? Is there a way of easily streaming a webcam using HTML5 & Javascript?Is there a Flash Interactive Server equivalent for HTML5?

We have a Flash-based collaboration whiteboard that lets users work together on the same page , see each others cursors, see what each other is doing, with each user's webcam appearing in a dashboard - is there a way of doing now that in HTML5?

Ok, and now get to the point.

So you tell me, you want to run that "app" on a device without a camera (the iPad) or a device with a camera but a screen soo small (the iPhone) , that no one would see a dime??

Get real here, wake up.

 

[Journojulz]

The pad will have a camera within a year and the functionality does sound useful.

Lets hope there is an app for it - cos there certainly won't be flash

 

[diamond.g]

Is that true? Is there a way of easily streaming a webcam using HTML5 & Javascript?Is there a Flash Interactive Server equivalent for HTML5?

We have a Flash-based collaboration whiteboard that lets users work together on the same page , see each others cursors, see what each other is doing, with each user's webcam appearing in a dashboard - is there a way of doing now that in HTML5?

Doesn't Google Wave allow you to do the same thing?

I know Google Docs allows you to share documents, but I don't know if you can see people typing and what not live.

 

[whooleytoo]

Ok, and now get to the point.

So you tell me, you want to run that "app" on a device without a camera (the iPad) or a device with a camera but a screen soo small (the iPhone) , that no one would see a dime??

Get real here, wake up.

No, but the Mac has camera and a large screen. Read the thread title - it's not just about the iPhone/iPad, it's also about the Mac.

There are Flash sites out there that I very much doubt could be implemented in HTML5 & Javascript. If there is some way of doing it, I'd love to hear about it, it'd be a great option for us! Until then, Flash is a necessity.

 

[whooleytoo]

Doesn't Google Wave allow you to do the same thing?

I know Google Docs allows you to share documents, but I don't know if you can see people typing and what not live.

I think you're right, Google Wave doesn't let you see other users live actions (but I could be wrong), that's a key 'unique' selling point of our site. I'm not aware of any way of doing that, without Flash (or some other plugin).

HTML5 & Javascript looks like it can/will replace a lot of Flash functionality, but not all. I don't think Flash is going anywhere for a while yet.

 

[little.pm]

No, but the Mac has camera and a large screen. Read the thread title - it's not just about the iPhone/iPad, it's also about the Mac.

There are Flash sites out there that I very much doubt could be implemented in HTML5 & Javascript. If there is some way of doing it, I'd love to hear about it, it'd be a great option for us! Until then, Flash is a necessity.

So, where is the problem then? There is somewhat flash on the mac and you can blame adobe for what it doesn't do.

There is no flash on the iPhone and the iPad and you cant blame apple for that either. Those are very tightly closed platforms for a PHONE with some extras and a yet just known to exist tablet. And they will work as what they where made for. If they don't support flash, well, I guess then they just won't. Apple is not gonna write a flash player for those and will not allow adobe to include their proprietary code. It's just that simple.

Get over it. Use flash where it is supported but don't try to blame McDonald's for not having your favorite Double Whopper.

Stop whining, really, flash is for the web - to provide a uniform platform. It dates back to the days of the browser wars - when there was no easy way to have the same layout and design for a web page in all browsers.

Now, you found a goodie in the video streaming. And I say, fine, if thats all what is left then use it appropriately, but don't think about f..kin flash Ads, because they disturb and a popup (interstitial) works like a 8ft coke button that crashes into your wind shield while on the highway at 80mph.

The right tool for the right job!

But be honest: there is no such thing as a job for flash on the iPhone and its descendants. Period.

 

[whooleytoo]

Stop whining, really, flash is for the web - to provide a uniform platform. It dates back to the days of the browser wars - when there was no easy way to have the same layout and design for a web page in all browsers.

No whining. Someone stated they'd seen no sites that couldn't be done in HTML5, and I pointed out some things which I don't think HTML5 can do.

So, no, I believe you're wrong. Flash does more than provide a common design platform for the web, there are other elements - such as Flash Media Interactive Server - that enable the development of RIAs which I believe cannot be done in HTML5 (though I'd love to be proved wrong).

 

[diamond.g]

I think you're right, Google Wave doesn't let you see other users live actions (but I could be wrong), that's a key 'unique' selling point of our site. I'm not aware of any way of doing that, without Flash (or some other plugin).

HTML5 & Javascript looks like it can/will replace a lot of Flash functionality, but not all. I don't think Flash is going anywhere for a while yet.

It lets you see what others are typing as they type. With extensions you can do pretty much the same things that you do now.

Mac Life article on Google Wave.

 

[whooleytoo]

It lets you see what others are typing as they type. With extensions you can do pretty much the same things that you do now.

Mac Life article on Google Wave.

Interesting, thanks!

 

[TheSlush]

I feel like Apple is risking missing their chance to dictate and control -- which they like to do -- the way magazines/newspapers/periodicals will be experienced on the iPad. Are they intentionally going to let each publisher create whatever types of interfaces they want? App-style? Some great, some terrible... take your chances, folks?

It seems like my question is answered in the affirmative here in Apple's iPad User Experience Guidelines:

De-emphasize User Interface Controls
Help people focus on the content by designing your application UI as a subtle frame for the information they’re interested in. Downplay application controls by minimizing their number and prominence. Consider creating custom controls that subtly integrate with your application’s graphical style. In this way, controls are discoverable, but not too conspicuous.

Hmm. A do-it-yourself UI free-for-all, like the current App Store approach. Fine. But will this UI freedom also apply for magazine/newspaper content as those apps are developed? I see a bad moon rising....

 

[MorphingDragon]

Is that true? Is there a way of easily streaming a webcam using HTML5 & Javascript?Is there a Flash Interactive Server equivalent for HTML5?

We have a Flash-based collaboration whiteboard that lets users work together on the same page , see each others cursors, see what each other is doing, with each user's webcam appearing in a dashboard - is there a way of doing now that in HTML5?

I think you're getting your terms confused. (With every other person and their dogs)

HTML5 is only a description language. It is incapable of doing any mathematics. But what is special about HTML5 as it has better integration with scripting languages. These languages such as PHP, Javascript, AJAX(Derivative of Javascript), Ruby etc etc etc IT is these languages which give power to the programmer.

 

[err404]

HTML5 & Javascript looks like it can/will replace a lot of Flash functionality, but not all. I don't think Flash is going anywhere for a while yet.

I don't think that most people have an issue with sites using Flash. Just like many other plug-ins, it does provide functionality that would be difficult at best to implement in a vanilla browser. The issue is that most people consider it poor web design to have a site render incorrectly if a proprietary plug-in is not found. Where possible, a site should provide at least basic functionality in a standards compliant manner. If the site is utterly dependent upon the plug-in, a properly formatted explanation should be displayed. A page filled with error boxes is never good design.