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Adobe Executive Kevin Lynch Discusses Flash on Mac, iPhone, and iPad
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Exactly. The first thing I noticed in the HTML5 video that somebody posted earlier that there was hardly any movement. If the video had included many fast moving scenes the performance I'm sure would have lagged and the cpu usage would have spiked. It is not a fair showing. Personally I don't have any issues with flash on my iMac 2.4; it just works.
hey Lynch, you douche! You decided that PPC users (Mac or Linux), didn't need Flash to experience the web, thereby killing the millions(?) of machines out there, which could no longer be used as cheap but powerful machines.
If you won't scratch our balls, why should we Mac users tickle yours??
If you won't scratch our balls, why should we Mac users tickle yours??
Hey, I've got news for you "macUser 2007"... to most of the world you are the pimply geek with his nose up his Flash. Most people don't give a d@mn about you or Flash (they just want things to work). To them you are the "loser." Next time hold up a mirror and take a good look before you spew your "I am better than thou" nonsense.
lemming-like fanboys who know nothing about development might not care.
such as? javascript? CSS? quicktime? please.
the iPad might be a tombstone alright, but it sure won't be for adobe. consider educating yourself before posting ignorant comments.
480p Hulu (Flash) video scaled Fullscreen brings my 24" iMac to it's knees. Unwatchable due to stuttering.
1080p h.264 video plays just fine. (i.e. trailers from Apple's website)
You, and the person you quoted have no idea what you are talking about. HTML5 isn't actually rendering the video, and thus doesn't add the kind of overhead you see with Flash. It's pretty much just frame for the native video to play in.
Yes, if you have a very complex h.264 scene that has high compression it can tax the CPU heavily. That has nothing to do with Flash vs HTML5 though.
That doesn't really invalidate all the other performance tests which show that HTML5 video (as of this moment) is not that much better than Flash video (performance wise).
Anyway, here's some insight about the problem with video and performance on the browser. It's not as straight-forward as opening the video in VLC or QuickTime and it's well explained here.
http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2010/01/solving_different_problems.html
Just trying to add my 0.2$ and trying to counter the incredible wave of misinformation that is rolling around the "Apple / Flash" threads.
And seriously, I can't even remember the last time that Flash (or any other plugin) crashed my internet browser.
My Windows 7 PC I have at work doesn't run like crap, far from it.
Ah... but of course, the problem is NEVER Apple's responsibility...
Does the HTML5 version of youtube have ads in it? Because if not, don't expect it to remain that way if they move to HTML5. Youtube/Google will ONLY move entirely to HTML5 if they can keep their intrusive advertisements.
And to those waiting to make iPhone apps with Flash CS5- if the beta is any clue, Adobe still has MASSIVE optimizations to make before it is usable for anything beyond the simplest of animations/apps. Don't expect a 2d game like Zombieville USA to be doable in Flash CS5 yet.
How do I know if a hulu video is at 480p or what resolution? If I go straight to hulu and select a trailer it plays just fine full screen, but it may be a lower resolution.
I'm sure your opinion is based on tons of scientific data, but as far as I know, "most people" in the world aren't on Macs. And for them, Flash works fine.
Yes, you and the rest of the small portion of internet users who already have Chrome or Safari as their default web-browser.
That's what you don't seem to get. HTML5 is nowhere ready for mass-adoption.
Of course HTML5 is and will be even faster in the coming years but the fact still remains, most people will not be able to see HTML5 video for a while. You've been enjoying web-based video for 6 years thanks to Flash and to me that should be motive alone to keep Flash around. It eventually sets the benchmark on what HTML / CSS / JS "should" be able to do.
While the Canvas and Video tags are still in active development Flash already does realtime bitmap manipulation, soundwave editing, PixelBender custom filters and a bunch of other stuff that HTML5 is not even close to do.
But please, have a read:
http://gizmodo.com/5461711/giz-explains-why-html5-isnt-going-to-save-the-internet
And I wonder how long would it take to build something even remotely close to this in HTML5:
http://www.papercritters.com/
I'm not telling you to switch to Chrome or Safari I'm just telling you there is a way to test HTML5 Video vs Flash Video. If you are OK with Flash, that's fine with me. I don't care if/when sites like youtube and vimeo remove Flash completely. The only thing that matters to me is that they offer a way for me to view the content on my iPad.Yes, you and the rest of the small portion of internet users who already have Chrome or Safari as their default web-browser.
That's what you don't seem to get. HTML5 is nowhere ready for mass-adoption.
Of course HTML5 is and will be even faster in the coming years but the fact still remains, most people will not be able to see HTML5 video for a while. You've been enjoying web-based video for 6 years thanks to Flash and to me that should be motive alone to keep Flash around. It eventually sets the benchmark on what HTML / CSS / JS "should" be able to do.
While the Canvas and Video tags are still in active development Flash already does realtime bitmap manipulation, soundwave editing, PixelBender custom filters and a bunch of other stuff that HTML5 is not even close to do.
But please, have a read:
http://gizmodo.com/5461711/giz-explains-why-html5-isnt-going-to-save-the-internet
And I wonder how long would it take to build something even remotely close to this in HTML5:
http://www.papercritters.com/
Oh, and you can expect to see the support arrive in Firefox shortly. They won't be the ones holding up HTML5/h.264 for long. That will be IEs job.
MUST SEE!
FLASH 10.1 RUNNING ON NEXUS ONE!
http://theflashblog.com/?p=1781
WOW!
JUST WOW
Bet Steve won't be too happy about this
This demo pretty much nails down all the ******** as far as I am concerned!
Great job Adobe and keep going strong!
FLASH 10.1 RUNNING ON NEXUS ONE!
http://theflashblog.com/?p=1781
WOW!
JUST WOW
Bet Steve won't be too happy about this
This demo pretty much nails down all the ******** as far as I am concerned!
Great job Adobe and keep going strong!
Um, no, it would be like Microsoft saying to Apple, "iTunes runs like crap on Windows, so, no, we're not going to give you the keys to our Windows Phone 7 Series devices." Which, um, is pretty much the case (although not necessarily for that reason).
HTML5 video players have been around in labs for, what, maybe a year? I think it's safe to say that their performance will improve. Moreover, their performance hinges heavily on the will and might of the browser manufacturer, who already has a wealth of OS/platform-specific tuning knowledge and also obviously has skin in the game which Adobe does not.
Even given that, I'm not sure about their conclusions. Note that they are "selling" not Flash or HTML5, but their native video rendering wrappers. Their conclusions, more importantly, seem directly at odds with my own experience with YouTube, for example, where Flash videos completely bogged down my Mac and HTML5/H.264 videos play just fine. At this nascent state of the game, HTML5 - in my experience - already completely kick's Flash's ass in rendering efficiency.
Personally, I played the videos on the site with my MacBook Pro and the HTML5 example played flawlessly (per their instructions, I paused at the start to remove any download bandwidth variance; when I hit play it played all the way through with no hiccups at all), while the Flash version choked (stuttered even though I buffered the whole thing up front, consumed a huge amount of CPU, spiking at 70% a few times, just about died at the end with the fast vibrating branch in the foreground). I found the explanation for this right on their site:
Ummm ... yeah, that's kinda the point of HTML5; the browser will use the native player's code instead of some "generic" library. Were MS to put HTML5 in IE, I'm sure they'd be using the native library as well. In fact, the use of a non-native library for Firefox is primarily due to their not wanting to support non-OSS video codecs, not for performance or consumer utility.
I also went from the Flash "tab" to the HTML5 tab and re-ran the HTML5 version. BashFlash let me know that Flash was still running in the background (although no longer consuming >30% of the CPU). Still, though, the HTML5 playback was flawless, even with Flash consuming a significant chunk of the CPU of my MacBook. Contrast that to having two Flash videos of any sort (even the low-res YouTube variety) where the playback of the second one is noticeably slowed by the presence of the other!
So, please. Play the files on the site yourself and don't just trust their conclusions section. It doesn't apply to a full HTML5 implementation, just to the no-effort implementation you'll get for "free" with either of the open-source browser rendering libraries.
The reason
There is only one good reason Apple hasn't added flash to the iPhone/iPadd.
There are literally 1000's of free games out on the web all written in flash, and most of them are 100% free to use. A lot of the popular games on the App Store are actually ports of older flash games. Except they cost $1
Why would apple provide flash player to use all this for free when they can collect 30% from every purchase of these older flash games that people could access for free with a flash player?
I'm so happy that Apple showed us the iPad - proving they are not interested in innovation anymore (3 years to make a big iPhone???) they just want to get more and more of you people buying more and more things from iTunes. Thats all it is - a quicker way to buy crap you can get for free off the iTunes store..
Queue complaints.
There is only one good reason Apple hasn't added flash to the iPhone/iPadd.
There are literally 1000's of free games out on the web all written in flash, and most of them are 100% free to use. A lot of the popular games on the App Store are actually ports of older flash games. Except they cost $1
Why would apple provide flash player to use all this for free when they can collect 30% from every purchase of these older flash games that people could access for free with a flash player?
I'm so happy that Apple showed us the iPad - proving they are not interested in innovation anymore (3 years to make a big iPhone???) they just want to get more and more of you people buying more and more things from iTunes. Thats all it is - a quicker way to buy crap you can get for free off the iTunes store..
Queue complaints.
Honestly - I saw this Nexus One flash demo about 10 times so far...
http://theflashblog.com/?p=1781
I urge everyone to click on the above link and face the reality check as well as glimpse of the future!
After this demo I can only LOL at Steve and wish him all the best while I go and shop some other products very soon indeed...
http://theflashblog.com/?p=1781
I urge everyone to click on the above link and face the reality check as well as glimpse of the future!
After this demo I can only LOL at Steve and wish him all the best while I go and shop some other products very soon indeed...
Good for you - and the people you design flash for.
Its not the functionality that is holding flash back - its the business implications.
To be honest - i don't miss flash - nowhere NEAR as much as i love the way the iphone works.
Horses for courses - keep buying the competition - we all win.
Honestly - I saw this Nexus One flash demo about 10 times so far...
http://theflashblog.com/?p=1781
I urge everyone to click on the above link and face the reality check as well as glimpse of the future!
After this demo I can only LOL at Steve and wish him all the best while I go and shop some other products very soon indeed...
Not sure what the intended impact of that was supposed to be. For the "future" it sure looks a lot like the present.
Reality check? That there are many Flash video sites out there? Um, okay. I get that. I also get that 90% of them (with the exception of Hulu) could provide HTML5 support or even dual Flash/HTML5 support easily. The "future" here isn't just being able to play today's content in a mobile device, it's playing tomorrow's content in that device. For one, even the demonstrated Flash/Nexus features (double-click to go full screen, for instance) break the expected Flash model; for another, anything needing to react to hover events will simply never get those on a touchscreen device. Content will need to be rewritten, even for the Nexus One.
Reality check? How much battery did the Nexus One consume while playing that Flash video? How hot did it get? A video of a salesman peddling their wares tends to gloss over the negatives like battery life/power consumption. Aside from your Flash fanboyism, how willing are you to believe that that particular salesman was giving you the full picture?
Reality check? Maybe Adobe really did put all their development muscle into making Flash work right on the Nexus One; do you think for a second that they'll put the same development effort into every other smartphone platform out there now or in the future? Adobe has a miserable track record on this: they fully support the platform which gives them the largest market audience or which scores them political points, and provide "almost okay enough" support on everything else. Examples abound in the Windows vs Mac development shifts over the last decade and how "next generation" players have repeatedly been left to wither on the vine once the market share has been consumed (Acrobat Reader absolutely sucks, and Flash sucks everywhere but Windows and maybe perhaps now Nexus One).
Reality check? How much control will HTC have in getting Flash to work just as well on *their* Android-based phone? How about Samsung? Adobe doesn't play well with others, and it simply never has. Assuming that the Nexus One implementation is the balls-out best Flash implementation on the planet, able to run with a tenth the resources of even the Windows variant, there is no way Adobe is going to spend that much effort to replicate that success on every other device out there. Not even for the "Nexus Two".
Reality check? How much flexibility will Google have in designing their next-generation phone? They can't have Flash performance decrease from one generation to the next, but how much control will they have over Adobe's development effort?
BoomToom today sat down with Adobe Chief Technical Officer Kevin Lynch to discuss the relationship between Apple and Adobe and the deployment of Flash on Mac as well as the iPhone and iPad. Apple's decision not to include Flash Player capabilities on the iPhone and now the iPad has resulted in apparent tensions between the two companies.
This could be the translation, "We found ourselves following the MBA school trends a bit too much and kept on using cheap 'throw away' engineers that we got on visas so we could keep the executive bonuses high. From that, no one really lives with the Flash source code base. As a result, all these bugs, memory leaks and performance issues popped up. I guess we are paying for it now with the biggest growth in the market being mobile systems where you can't count on a faster CPU and more memory to make up for poorly managed software development."
Re: Flash on the Nexus One
1. Oh look, an impressive demo coming directly from Adobe.
2. If Adobe DOES come out with a decent mobile Flash player, you can thank Apple for that. The only reason they are putting major efforts into mobile Flash is to try and get their product onto the iPhone/iPad. If Apple had let Flash onto the iPhone already you wouldn't be seeing this level of optimization, period.
It's amazing to see what happens when there's true motivation behind improving a product. What better motivation is there than obsolescence?
1. Oh look, an impressive demo coming directly from Adobe.
2. If Adobe DOES come out with a decent mobile Flash player, you can thank Apple for that. The only reason they are putting major efforts into mobile Flash is to try and get their product onto the iPhone/iPad. If Apple had let Flash onto the iPhone already you wouldn't be seeing this level of optimization, period.
It's amazing to see what happens when there's true motivation behind improving a product. What better motivation is there than obsolescence?
Not much it seems.
Begining of video:
End of video:
Now, are we really complaining about something that we have a CHOICE to use on our mobile web experience? (on the HTC Hero you could could turn flash on or off at will)
I can't believe that anyone would complain about the browsers ability to use flash when the platform they are discussing has thousands of apps which would use a devices CPU and generate "heat" it just the same as a flash app would.