Adobe Introduces 'Muse' Subscription-Based Website Creation Tools

[Nostromo]

I prefer using HTML and CSS: clean code.

Subscription model: No, thanks. You may think it OK for a casual user. But then a casual user will only get to learn how to use a software on a very basic level.

A casual user is much better off using the free iWeb or getting a free Wordpress template for websites.

And if he gets a premium template for a Wordpress site he'll get a much better site than he could bang together using Adobe Muse.

There's a bit more involved in building a good website than noodling around with easy access software.

 

[ricardobeat]

I was about to agree with you until you mentioned using Wordpress and buying a theme. You just blew all credibility with your argument with that.

Why would that be? There are plenty of great designers/coders making a living on high-quality Wordpress themes. I bet 90% of them are miles ahead of anything this "Muse" can output.

By the way, Dreamweaver stopped being a WYSIWYG editor several versions ago. Now it is used by coders who hand code and for managing sites. Dreamweaver CS5 in particular is excellent.

No, it's not (x2). I have yet to see a single person in the professional field using Dreamweaver. Standards are Notepad++/TextMate/Visual Studio.

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This is awesome. My girlfriend was just asking if there is a program like this out there... She doesn't know a lick of HTML so this would be perfect for her.

Send her to http://www.squarespace.com/ or something like it. You know better than that.

Sucks for me because my side job is web design.. If the layman can use this to make a website, there goes my potential client...

Automated "creation" tools will never surpass knowlegeable people's work. The layman is able to make a website since the dawn of the internet, this is not a first by any means...

 

[The Beatles]

The problem is, traditional designers don't understand interaction design.

Your comment is like an eighteen wheeler going down the freeway with no one behind the wheel.

 

[ricardobeat]

WOW,
This might be a dream come true for me.
As a designer I am very familiar with tools like Adobe's Illustrator/Photoshop/InDesign/AE. I absolutely have no clue with web programing/code and have not desire at all to learn it.
In the past I used Freeway and it was a nice tool, but I still felt a bit restricted by it. If Muse becomes what they are promising and work seamlessly with all Adobe programs I cannot tell how happy I will be to be able to bring my creativity to the web.
I am really cheering for Adobe to make this thing right, let's hope so!

Fireworks is fully integrated and has been able to "Export to Web" for years. Nobody uses that because it's crap, and this will be no different...

Would you like an engineer to "bring his creativity" to the design field for one of your clients? If you want to provide valuable work, learn the stuff properly, you can't design for the web if you don't know how it works.

 

[jayducharme]

Adobe's arrogance is ridiculous. "There is no other product out there like it". Really?

Exactly. Even Kompozer can do a pretty good basic WYSIWYG page. I've started using Hype and it seems really promising, a sort of bridge between websites and Flash-style interactivity. Adobe is a bit late to the game. Instead of creating a new product, they should overhaul the monster that is Flash.

The problem is, traditional designers don't understand interaction design.

That's a really good point. There's a big difference between creating a magazine and creating a dynamic website, a very different skill set.

BTW, did anyone else notice that the video appears devoid of any Apple computers?

 

[gugy]

Fireworks is fully integrated and has been able to "Export to Web" for years. Nobody uses that because it's crap, and this will be no different...

Would you like an engineer to "bring his creativity" to the design field for one of your clients? If you want to provide valuable work, learn the stuff properly, you can't design for the web if you don't know how it works.

Well my field of work is film/television and I just need to create a website to show my work.
Being a designer, I would like to build it myself. I hate learning any code or programming. I used Freeway in the past. It was OK. I just think looking at the Adobe's site this program looks sharper than Freeway.

I am sure you can make killer stuff learning the appropriate software but since I have no plans to become a web designer or such, tools like Muse have an appeal to me.

 

[baryon]

Edge and Muse show that Adobe's moving in the right direction. Adobe's the only software company today who makes good design apps. Look at Apple's Final Cut Pro, for example.

Apple was quick to say that Flash sucks, but they offered absolutely nothing to replace Flash or to even help the transition from Flash to HTML.

In Flash you could design everything visually, and HTML and CSS are a huge step backwards as you now have to define a rectangle by coordinates, and not by simply dragging a rectangle with your mouse. Adobe's fixing these problems, and that's the only way to get people to create good HTML content. No one wants to do code everything when you've witnessed what Flash could do with minimal coding.

I just don't understand why it's "Subscription Based". Wtf? Can't I just buy it and be done with it, without having to pay again and again to keep using it?

 

[realmike15]

For my needs, this is all fine and good except for the subscription cost. What happens when I stop paying the subscription? Do I lose support or all functionality... because if it's the latter then no thanks.

People can rag on Wordpress all they want, but there are so many themes and customizations available that it's easy to distinguish your page from others. Of course it's not going to look as good as a hand coded website. But not everyone wants to spend the next year of their life learning advanced HTML and JS. That's just not where my interests are, I want a website I can layout and then update easily, that's all.

People get so cocky because they can code in HTML or Java. Sure, I don't know much beyond simple HTML... but that's because I choose to focus my knowledge in other areas. Like Logic, Aperture, Lightroom, and Photoshop.

We learn what we need to, to accomplish our goals. Learning how to code websites is just not necessary for a lot of websites. It's like telling me to use Xcode to create my own applications, instead of using what's already out there... why the hell would I want to do that if I'm not interested in programming to begin with.

 

[mrgraff]

I love the punching bag and gloves in the background at the opening. My guess is that anyone working at Adobe get assaulted rather frequently.

Everyone in that video sounded either scared or suffering from a really bad cold.

 

[Yamcha]

I think some people will simply hate because of that Adobe vs Apple feud, me personally being a Web Designer, my focus and skill set was always with using Photoshop & creating great looking sites..

And although I do know how to code, I've never been a huge fan of XHTML/CSS, especially considering we have different rendering engines out there..

Anyway I'm looking forward to Muse..

 

[muzikool]

There are two problems I see immediately.

1. It's subscription-based. Why? There are other great web design options that you can simply buy outright, which leads to my next point.

2. An app like RapidWeaver runs circles around Muse, with all of the 3rd-party add-ons and templates available, and you can purchase it for less than half the cost of a 1-year subscription to Muse. Someone who is completely new to website design can pick up RapidWeaver and utilize a training site like RapidWeaver Classroom to build a great website that has cleaner code and more flexibility then what Muse offers. I realize Muse will improve over time, but I am not at all impressed with where it's starting.

Adobe does some things really well, and others poorly. So far this one appears to be the latter.

 

[gugy]

People get so cocky because they can code in HTML or Java.

Yep, my feeling the bashing comes from those folks.
Sure you can make great stuff if you know the proper software but for someone who is a designer and have the sensibility to create nice work but hate to learn all the intricacies of programming/coding then Muse seems a nice tool to have.

 

[blacktape242]

BTW, did anyone else notice that the video appears devoid of any Apple computers?

I noticed an Imac in there...

 

[baryon]

This happens each time I try to install it:


Anyone else?

 

[AppleDroid]

Don't really care for this idea of renting software.

I took a preliminary survey months ago dealing with "Will you be willing to pay for a subscription over retail?" and I answered "NO" to every question.

This is a direct response to creatives like myself who skip versions that we don't see will add enough benefit over cost. This way they lock you in to a continuous revenue stream even if you don't need the updates/they don't release timely updates.

I'm happy to buy and use your software because it helps me generate money but I don't want subscriptions.

 

[THX1139]

hmm...with even easier ways to make and maintain websites, it may be a good time to rethink taking too many web design classes.

True, it's getting easier and easier to to traditional page building without learning code. This has come about due to better implementation of web standards.

But... if you want to make the big bucks and be sought after, then you should still learn to code. In many instances, to create innovative and original websites, you have to do custom coding. Not sure about this new Adobe software, but unless those widgets are completely customizable, they will have a template kind of functionality. It will be like iWeb all over again... you trade ease of use for generic design. Still, the video looked promising. I wonder if it's going to create bloated code that a lot of these WySiWyG editors have a tendency to do?

And finally, I think that as time goes by we are going to see less and less individuals create websites. People are going to subscribe to Facebook like sites to host their content. It easy and fast to implement, and you have access to millions of users. When you have a website out in the wild, you lose a lot of that free marketing potential. It's just going to be a matter of time until we see a sort of "Facebook" for business. It will be like a gigantic world-wide yellow pages.

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This happens each time I try to install it:
View attachment 299124

Anyone else?

Why would you send this error to Apple? Especially with such a condescending note attached. You realize that Adobe makes this software, not Apple?

 

[wilhoitm]

Muse is Adobe's version of iWeb

I downloaded the beta and played around with it and I am impressed! By the way the beta works with Lion. It is pretty much Adobe's version of iWeb! Adobe even offers hosting like MobileMe did before it was removed for iCloud. You can add custom HTML exactly the way you could in iWeb.

http://muse.adobe.com/

I think Apple should have kept evolving iWeb!

 

[EGlasheen]

Muse reminds me of some Yahoo web design tool I used in the 90's ( Trilex?).

Now going on my 10th year as a professional Web Dev, can't anyone at Adobe create a tool that doesn't produce such crap code? I would never use this application... ever.

Because of Adobe's point upgrade pricing, I have personally stopped using their products. Why spend $600 - $1200 every year.

I am now focused on SharePoint, iOS and HTML5 etc.

At least Microsoft is developing useful web tools as of late... i.e. ASP.NET Razor view. WebMatrix is a much better modern web application than this MUSE crap.

Good Bye Adobe... you should have not put all of your eggs into the Flash basket...

 

[iHEARTcartoons]

I'll believe it when I see it Adobe

There just isn't a real WYSIWYG web program that can do the web from a graphic design view point. Being a life-long graphic designer, I have learned to design or more to the point, to "think" for the web and can just about make do in Dreamweaver.

A great way to describe what it's like, is to ask someone who is used to working in Word and Excel to create their project in Illustrator/InDesign and vice versa. It doesn't work, because there simply is no true crossover.

 

[Zeldain]

Oh really? You know them all do you?

Theater directors don't understand film directing either I suppose?

I work at a large agency . Traditional designers are so far away from being able to think through interaction that to pick up a tool like this and try is a disservice to whatever client they're doing it for.

There are alot of designers a stones' throw from where I sit who think this solves all of their problems... "bye bye HTML 5" they say... they don't even understand what they're saying.

 

[motulist]

That video was ridiculously ineffective. It's just a bunch of talking heads. How about, ya know, actually showing us a demonstration of the product itself.

 

[Defthand]

I've never known good designers to have the aptitude to learn programming of any kind. The two talents--visual arts and coding--must use unrelated areas of the brain. Professional designers typically hand off their art to a coder.

I'm curious who Adobe is targeting. The same novices that use Photoshop Elements probably won't use it since personal websites have been abandoned in favor of social network pages like Facebook and blog sites. I suspect Apple shelved iWeb for that reason.

Interestingly, DreamWeaver already has many of the abilities that Muse promises. The only real difference is that Muse will be cloud-based. It wouldn't surprise me if this is early testing of cloud computing in general and that Adobe has intentions of delivering DreamWeaver and other products in that matter.

 

[beangibbs]

This is gonna be an awesome tool.
Personally, Dreamweaver was a headache for me, and my web design teacher didn't help, as she literally wouldn't teach us anything in class. I floundered and nearly failed out of the class because she refused to explain how to use the program. And I know a little bit of coding, but not enough to be remotely useful.
As a designer, I wouldn't even offer site creation as a service. I'll create your content. You get someone to build the mechanics of the site.
But this Muse thing could change that for not only myself, but a lot of people.

 

[jayducharme]

No one wants to do code everything when you've witnessed what Flash could do with minimal coding.

That's a joke, right? Flash used to be easy to use, around version 3. Adobe's only contribution has been to pile on more code. ActionScript 3 is unusable to anyone unfamiliar with programming. Even Behaviors in ActionScript 2 was challenging to work with. And there's nothing interesting you can do in Flash unless you use ActionScript.

I think Apple should have kept evolving iWeb!

I agree. It never felt complete. I thought Apple was going to make it their "Flash killer." Instead, they killed iWeb.

 

[ricardobeat]

Being a designer, I would like to build it myself. I hate learning any code or programming. I used Freeway in the past. It was OK. I just think looking at the Adobe's site this program looks sharper than Freeway.

I am sure you can make killer stuff learning the appropriate software but since I have no plans to become a web designer or such, tools like Muse have an appeal to me.

Design it yourself, hire someone to do the coding. I wish I'd build my own house too, but I have no plans to become an engineer/architect/carpenter.

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Yep, my feeling the bashing comes from those folks.
Sure you can make great stuff if you know the proper software but for someone who is a designer and have the sensibility to create nice work but hate to learn all the intricacies of programming/coding then Muse seems a nice tool to have.

Sure, a good designer can create something beautiful, but the web is software, not posters. A good website requires knowledge, not sensibility. The interaction, information architecture and overall experience are much more important than how it looks (i.e. craigslist, facebook - not that I approve of this). To get the best of those you must understand how it works underneath.

You can't design a good car without having knowledge of mechanics, aerodynamic, driving and the fabrication process, or hiring someone that does. I think we both agree that a "car designer" software would just spit out crappy projects.