Photoshop is for professionals, not for consumers with inexpensive DSLRs who shoot in RAW+JPEG.
Adobe Launches Photoshop Elements 9 and Premiere Elements 9
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Photoshop is for professionals, not for consumers with inexpensive DSLRs who shoot in RAW+JPEG.
That's my point - most "consumers" don't bother with RAW. Even if they knew it existed, they wouldn't know what to do with it.
It's not reasonable to expect somebody who pays $250 for a 12-bit DSLR to spend $600 in overkill software. Who says they don't know RAW?
I'm not expecting them to. I'm backing up a previous posters argument that they probably don't NEED 16bpc/float and if Elements only has 8bpc then it probably isn't a huge loss. For most people.
ASP272
macrumors 6502
Considering a switch to Adobe
I've been creating small videos for my company for a few years. I have always used iMovie and then VisualHub in order to encode to MPEG2 format. The video requests I have gotten lately require a bit more flexibility than iMovie provides. I especially need the ability to export directly to MPEG-2 format instead of using another program for it. Encoding an uncompressed MOV file takes forever and the file size is HUGE. So I considered buying Final Cut Express, but it unfortunately doesn't export to MPEG-2 format either. So today's release of Adobe Premier Elements for the Mac gave me hope, and sure enough it does export to MPEG-2 format directly.
I have downloaded the trial version of the software and I am running into numerous problems with logging in my Adobe ID and with downloading additional templates. Our major corporation has strict security policies and NTLM authentication and anonymous requests are blocked through our proxy server. This usually causes poorly coded java applets to fail to load and this has been the particular case will all of Adobe's applications except for Acrobat 9 Professional, which they updated earlier this year.
That being said, it appears that Premier Elements 9 is 64-bit. I can confirm that the Organizer does replace Bridge in this app, because Premier Elements 9 loads up the "Organizer" application. We have CS5 Design Premium but Premier Elements does not integrate with Bridge CS5 as many have hoped.
I don't feel that Premiere's interface is as intuitive as that of Final Cut Express, however the export options are far better. The ability to burn to DVD or Blu-ray directly is awesome to me, especially with the option to just export the burn folder. The editing and switching between screens seems to be as fast if not faster than iMovie 09.
Overall, I like the application so far but hate the issues with logging in and downloading extras, which have been typical of Adobe's apps at my company. To be fair, we have those same issues with many other apps.
Hope this helps.
I've been creating small videos for my company for a few years. I have always used iMovie and then VisualHub in order to encode to MPEG2 format. The video requests I have gotten lately require a bit more flexibility than iMovie provides. I especially need the ability to export directly to MPEG-2 format instead of using another program for it. Encoding an uncompressed MOV file takes forever and the file size is HUGE. So I considered buying Final Cut Express, but it unfortunately doesn't export to MPEG-2 format either. So today's release of Adobe Premier Elements for the Mac gave me hope, and sure enough it does export to MPEG-2 format directly.
I have downloaded the trial version of the software and I am running into numerous problems with logging in my Adobe ID and with downloading additional templates. Our major corporation has strict security policies and NTLM authentication and anonymous requests are blocked through our proxy server. This usually causes poorly coded java applets to fail to load and this has been the particular case will all of Adobe's applications except for Acrobat 9 Professional, which they updated earlier this year.
That being said, it appears that Premier Elements 9 is 64-bit. I can confirm that the Organizer does replace Bridge in this app, because Premier Elements 9 loads up the "Organizer" application. We have CS5 Design Premium but Premier Elements does not integrate with Bridge CS5 as many have hoped.
I don't feel that Premiere's interface is as intuitive as that of Final Cut Express, however the export options are far better. The ability to burn to DVD or Blu-ray directly is awesome to me, especially with the option to just export the burn folder. The editing and switching between screens seems to be as fast if not faster than iMovie 09.
Overall, I like the application so far but hate the issues with logging in and downloading extras, which have been typical of Adobe's apps at my company. To be fair, we have those same issues with many other apps.
Hope this helps.
It is a huge loss. Because if you process your DSLR pictures with Elements you are destroying them.
They got a DSLR in the first place. If they didn't care about their images they would have just bought a compact.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
Elements 8 already does 48-bit color (my Canon point-and-shoots do 14-bit .CR2 RAW).
Really? Please explain - since it looks like my RAW files are untouched. I don't need CYMK or some of the other Photoshop CS features, so why not use Elements?
Is it full 12-bit or only for a limited set of operations?
Why doesn't Adobe highlight this?
bloodycape
macrumors 65816
I can't say if CS5 is less stable on OSX or not, but on my TT running W7, I never had an issue with CS5.
bloodycape
macrumors 65816
Between Final Cut Express, Premier Elements(8 or 9), and Sony Vegas Studio(yes I know its for Windows but a newer mac can dual boot), which do you guys think has the better, easier to use interface coming from the fantastic iMovie HD(not the newer one with the crap interface)?
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
It uses exactly the same CameraRaw plugin as PhotoShop CS - literally the same download. It promotes the 14-bit/channel image to a 16-bit channel image (see the "Depth:" dropdown menu at the bottom center). After applying the RAW processing, the "Open Image" button at bottom right opens it in pse as a 48-bit image.
Actually, I usually use Lightroom 3, and even that has some features that only work on 24-bit images.
(screen capture from pse8 on Win7x64)
Attachments
It is not just about CameraRaw, but about operations in Elements that are 8-bit. This was the problem with previous versions, so I'm not convinced that 8 changed anything.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
Resize, rotate, blur and color/contrast and most controls seem to work in pse8 on 48-bit images, but "Transform" gives the "cannot do on 16-bit, do you want to convert to 8-bit" message.
Most controls seem to work on 16-bit - any in particular that I should try?
edit: Playing some more, it seems that of the tools on the left vertical toolbar - the "Quick Selection Tool" and above work an 16-bit images. The "Horizontal Type Tool" and below popup the "8-bit convert" message.
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andiwm2003
macrumors 601
I've been creating small videos for my company for a few years. I have always used iMovie and then VisualHub in order to encode to MPEG2 format. The video requests I have gotten lately require a bit more flexibility than iMovie provides. I especially need the ability to export directly to MPEG-2 format instead of using another program for it. Encoding an uncompressed MOV file takes forever and the file size is HUGE. So I considered buying Final Cut Express, but it unfortunately doesn't export to MPEG-2 format either. So today's release of Adobe Premier Elements for the Mac gave me hope, and sure enough it does export to MPEG-2 format directly.
I have downloaded the trial version of the software and I am running into numerous problems with logging in my Adobe ID and with downloading additional templates. Our major corporation has strict security policies and NTLM authentication and anonymous requests are blocked through our proxy server. This usually causes poorly coded java applets to fail to load and this has been the particular case will all of Adobe's applications except for Acrobat 9 Professional, which they updated earlier this year.
That being said, it appears that Premier Elements 9 is 64-bit. I can confirm that the Organizer does replace Bridge in this app, because Premier Elements 9 loads up the "Organizer" application. We have CS5 Design Premium but Premier Elements does not integrate with Bridge CS5 as many have hoped.
I don't feel that Premiere's interface is as intuitive as that of Final Cut Express, however the export options are far better. The ability to burn to DVD or Blu-ray directly is awesome to me, especially with the option to just export the burn folder. The editing and switching between screens seems to be as fast if not faster than iMovie 09.
Overall, I like the application so far but hate the issues with logging in and downloading extras, which have been typical of Adobe's apps at my company. To be fair, we have those same issues with many other apps.
Hope this helps.
thanks for the info.
Has adobe premiere a similar real timeline like iMovie HD? they dropped the timeline in imovie09 and i hate that.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
True in pse8 - the "Layer" menu is greyed out with 16-bit images.
ASP272
macrumors 6502
It does have multiple timelines for both audio and video. See attached screen shot.
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Well you are just not part of the hip generation pal! Who needs timelines?
Actually I can't stand iMove09. Still use 06'HD and FCE.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the next Final Cut and related goodies revisions. Unfortunately I think that Mac software is going the way of the Dodo bird. Well not quite. Just dumbed down.
It's all about the iPad & IPhone these days.
jettredmont
macrumors 68030
Okay, so the first seven bullet points for this new release are trying to convince me to buy a replacement for iPhoto? Really?
I'm assuming this is how they are selling the content-aware resizing / healing features they brought over from CS5? Makes me think they are dumbed down to the point of uselessness.
Then a bunch more crap I'd never use.
Huh. Photoshop Elements used to be a decent little app, with some serious Photoshop features but not the highest-end features; a lot of control and power, however, left in the features that they kept. Now? It's a "My First Photo! app made for second-graders and grandma's, and failing at appealing to the latter as well. I've already bought that with Photoshop Elements 6, and ended up never using it because it was only good at messing things up.
The only thing possibly going for this over Acorn et al would be the content-aware resizing type technology, which is truly magical. But, again, they are selling it as a one-click "fix your photos!" tool, and when Photoshop Elements advertises that way they mean it. No chance of doing any good-looking work with it, it ends up as nothing more than a gimmick to move boxes.
So, no thanks. I'll save $40 and buy a real photo editor - lightweight on overall features, but retaining control over those features so my photos don't look like they ran into the safety scissors - instead.
I use a DSLR, shooting about 10k photos per year. I use Aperture for most of my photo retouching. I'd never dream of paying the Adobe Tax on Photoshop, though. Way too much money for what I would use it for.
A lightweight photo editing app is exactly what I need. Of course, a lightweight photo app for the developmentally disabled is not what I need, so Photoshop Elements is out.
They don't need a high bitrate editor to the same extent that they don't need a DSLR. But, given they have bought a really nice DSLR for much less than Photoshop CS5 costs, I think they would prefer an editing program which preserves the quality of that DSLR instead of turning their output into mush equivalent to that shot on a $100 point-and-shoot.
To be clear:
Where Photoshop CS5 is 16-bit processing all-around, with Photoshop Elements there are certain functions which are available when dealing with a 16-bit image, and others which are not (the menu items will be grayed out). To access the "full" feature set, you need to convert the image to 8-bit; then all menu items are available.
See http://forums.adobe.com/message/2780482 for instance. How big a deal this is depends on which specific features you want to use, and if they are available in 16-bit mode. As it's an intentional crippling on Adobe's part (the features work in 16-bit mode on bigger brother PS CS5), I suspect that the "flagship" features come in as 8-bit-only. But, I don't see any list of this anywhere on Adobe's website.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
To be *very* clear....
Photoshop Elements is a great "prosumer" tool.
How many people look at their photos on an 8-bit (24-bit) monitor or TV, vs. the number who have 10, 12, 14 or 16-bit displays or printers? An almost vanishingly small percentage of users have any need for anything more than 8-bit per channel. PSe is great for them.
In fact, almost all of these people shoot with JPEG recording, so any discussion of higher color depths is moot.
I shoot in JPEG+RAW. (Love those 16 GB SDHC cards...) Most of the time, I take the JPEG, do a little crop/redeye/color adjust and I'm done. Occasionally, there will be a shot that has a great composition - but the exposure or color balance is off - so I'll take the 42-bit RAW image and rescue the information that's been lost in the camera-generated JPEG. I also do underwater photography - so applying color balance corrections to the RAW is almost always needed.
For this "prosumer" use, full 48-bit support is unnecessary. I wouldn't want to give up the ability to control the conversion from 42-bit to 24-bit - but I have no problems with shifting the workflow from 42-bit to 24-bit after applying any necessary RAW conversions.
For the true professionals making huge and heavily "'shopped" images, 48-bit is important. For the others, the gonflé pros, the end result would be the same in 24-bit or 48-bit. The professed need for full 48-bit processing is just willy-waving.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
Then clearly you shouldn't buy PSe - but (as earlier noted) since the vast majority of DSLR (and high end point-and-shoot) users download 24-bit JPEGs from their cameras, the point about 48-bit processing is moot for these people.
Plus, note that even with PSe a large number of operations are 48-bit aware - especially the ones that simply improve the photograph. The controls that alter reality (layers, etc) not so much.
As I said before - "For the true professionals making huge and heavily "'shopped" images, 48-bit is important".
Yes, consumers who want to preserve the quality provided by their cameras should buy Corel PaintShop, not this unreasonably crippled Elements.
If Adobe doesn't want to provide a feature in Elements, they should remove it altogether, not provide a degrading version.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
Did you sit on a cactus or something?
"Degrading" ???
Simply buy the full Photoshop CS5 for $700 if you need features that aren't available in the $80 Photoshop Elements 9.
They should remove useful items like "healing brush", instead of providing it for 24-bit images only?
You are not making sense - many companies provide versions of products with lesser capabilities for far less than the full version.
In particular, to me Photoshop Elements seems to be great way to provide value to consumers/prosumers by disabling certain higher end features (like more complete 48-bit support).
The partial 48-bit support is fine for me - most of the time I don't need to use a tool that forces a 24-bit conversion, until I save the image as a JPEG for sharing.