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Frankly, what most of us would like is if Adobe could take the time to get it to run right on Mac OSX.

Oh I'm no developer. Far from it.

I just thought I would pick up on a point that many Mac users dont use to resolve their "issue", and I dont see the real need to constantly take the side of Steve 'Mind Control' Jobs.

If you hate flash so much either dont go to flash sites, dont install flash, or wait till JB gets his way and all sites use HTML5, if and when that does happen.

Hes already got you doing the first 2 on the iPad and iPhone. So you live without it already.

I for one dont care what happens.

Just dont think for one minute that Adobe arent trying to get it working on OSX though, as you would be mistaken, and the point that you make above, well, are they not 'taking their time' already?

How much time would you like them to take, because at the moment I'm not sure whether you want them to rush it out right now, or really take their time and get it right.

You know like Steve likes to do.

He didnt bring copy and paste to the iPhone for a few years, supposedly to make sure it worked and was better than everyone else.

Maybe when flash is finally available with full hardware acceleration it will be better than Windows and Linux versions???

Who knows.
 
Won't be any more difficult. It's clear and visible code, won't be any hard to make an HTML5 Ad blocker. In fact, it'll be easier.

That's exactly what went through my mind when I read the previous comment. It will, in fact, be easier to create an ad blocker in HTML 5 than a Flash blocker. So many wrong-headed assumptions about HTML 5 floating around out there.

Hell, I use a CSS stylesheet already that blocks most ads: http://www.floppymoose.com/

EDIT: That page mentions a CSS stylesheet that blocks Flash ads.

Good to know. But I'm quite happy with the selective control that click-to-flash gives me. Will this also be possible in HTML5?
 
CPU usage is WAY down (from 100% to 50% on one flash game, for example). Youtube uses a lot less CPU. And my Macbook has integrated graphics, so GPU acceleration is no big deal. Awesome update.
 
It'll be available in 3 years in a "beta" version of Flash. It'll still run as the bloatware it is today.
 
Like we didn't see that coming...

Why not just say: "Adobe Releases Flash Player 10.1, But OSX Version Still Sucks"

You should definitely have seen it coming given that they announced that it wouldn't be included in the initial release of 10.1 as soon as they announced that they were working on it.
 
So after installing 10.1 I now get lag in youtube and vimeo HD videos. Only in fullscreen mode though. It was silky smooth before this update. And this is with the MBP in my sig with the 1440x900 resolution screen. Ive tried restarting the computer and repairing permissions. Still laggy results. Anyone else notice this? And also is there a way to go back to my previous version of Flash?
 
It'll be available in 3 years in a "beta" version of Flash. It'll still run as the bloatware it is today.

It's available now in a Beta version of Flash. That's a really big part of what the article is about. Did you read it?

Anyway - what are you going to complain about when every hack advertising developer in the world is working in *HTML 5* >cue the heavenly chorus< making code that fills up your memory with dead objects?
 
Or neither. Just block Flash altogether and carry on with your life like I do.

See, I grew up in the 80s and our computers didn't have Flash back then, and I turned out just fine. I can take it or leave it. :D

While not doing anything is also a choice (I was also a child of the 80s, and Reagan did a whole lot of nothing :D), there's a lot of developers (as you've later pointed out on this thread) that view Flash as the only means of content delivery for the Web. Crappily coded content, but content nonetheless.

I think the larger point about consumer choice is still important - Apple's making a major vertical market play right now and HTML5 is part of its plans in this area. Adobe sincerely believes Flash is still the future of the Web, for better or for worse. But because both companies care more about content ownership then they do consumers, they're going to slug it out while the rest of us deal with the consequences.

I bought a Nexus One, I'll be getting Flash in a couple weeks. With a few hacks, I can watch Hulu right on my phone. That said, I'll likely leave Flash off since I block it for my everyday Web browsing via desktop/laptop. But the choice should be mine, and not Apple's or Adobe's.
 
I don't know if this has been brought up or not, but Flash development experience is a requirement for a lot of interface design gaming industry jobs. One studio I worked at, had a front-end utility that converts flash into a working interface for console games. I can't go into the details of how it works, but if you were to apply for an interface design/artist job at a game studio, many of them would ask for a flash demo of an interface you designed.

I just wanted to point out, that Flash isn't just a web browser plug-in, it's also a tool in game development.
 
So after installing 10.1 I now get lag in youtube and vimeo HD videos. Only in fullscreen mode though. It was silky smooth before this update. And this is with the MBP in my sig with the 1440x900 resolution screen. Ive tried restarting the computer and repairing permissions. Still laggy results. Anyone else notice this? And also is there a way to go back to my previous version of Flash?

Just noticed something else about my issues. When I turn on the GT330M the lag goes away completely in full screen mode. But with the Intel graphics it is bad in full screen mode. Im pretty sure it never lagged before with the intel graphics. And i thought Adobe doesnt use hardware acceleration yet so i thought it doesnt matter what graphics card your using, it just matters on the CPU power? Thanks
 
This story really has legs :eek: Apple and Adobe are like oil and water lately. Adobe can't seem to do anything right and Apple just keep banging them over the head about it.
 
Then how come this only works on 10.6.3 (after Apple shipped an update ) and only on the latest GPUs ?

http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/technotes/tn2010/tn2267.html
You're referencing the low-level API introduced in March, making your rhetorical question a circular one.

Note the prominent disclaimer on the page you link: "IMPORTANT: The Video Decode Acceleration framework only decodes video frame data and does not provide video playback or stream parsing capabilities. Using the QTKit QTMovie object with QTMovieOpenForPlaybackAttribute enabled is the recommended way for applications to automatically access GPU accelerated playback of H.264 encoded media."

QTMovie and related APIs have been hardware accelerated by the system as long as there has been hardware acceleration. H.264 specialized acceleration is relatively new, but also available through the system. H.264 specialized acceleration outside of QTKit was a bone tossed in their direction, but something other developers had long been able to use. "Apple doesn't provide the API" has always been demonstrably false.
If it existed long ago in the general Cocoa API why does Apple only support this on the latest bleeding edge OS drop and a limited subset of GPUs ?
Because "this" is a conflation on your part of two discrete APIs. VDADecode is new; QTMovie's system acceleration and GPU offloading is not. It's been available as long as CoreVideo has existed (10.4). You are also conflating general hardware acceleration with specialized codec acceleration. Adobe's performance problems are based on the fact that until 10.1, they took advantage of neither.
There is a huge difference between dragging in Quicktime and sticking an additional layer of abstraction (moving your software and the decoder farther apart ) and simply being able to pump data through
There is an equally huge difference between letting system frameworks do the heavy lifting and reinventing the wheel without regard for those system frameworks. Adobe coded for Windows and then, when porting to other platforms like Linux, OS X, and Solaris, lost those advantages. There can be no denying that fact.

It's a perfectly valid choice, but not one that supports an argument that the reason there's no video acceleration is because no one else would let you.
Not true. In order for Flash to support anything, the browser first has to support it in the plugin framework.
A red herring on two levels. First, Quartz plugins have been possible since Firefox 2's Leopard update (October 2007) and even longer for Safari.

Second, the plugin framework is just for the plugin executable itself--the associated processes and media can and do pass through separately if built correctly, just as the many PDF plugins from the early days of Firefox demonstrate. Even Firefox's QuickTime plugin triggered the system processes in 2005. If the limitation were the browser, that wouldn't have been possible.

Adobe was forced to wait on neither browser developers nor Apple. They waited until now because they chose to do so. It is as simple as that.
 
just the long-running pattern of Adobe...

eff-them...

I have moved 90% of my imaging work away from Pshop and into Aperture plus NIK. While there are a few features I like (content-aware scaling for one) in the new version, I will continue to move away from Adobe. I will make the upgrade, but their upgrade process sucks (I have at least four full serial numbers for one workstation due to their screwing around with their suite packages).

Quite frankly Apple is correct in their fight against Adobe. I haven't felt the love from them in a long while. Never thought I would think Quark was a nicer company to deal with, but... mac versions lag behind pc. The intel switch-over was the one that soured me the most, and I my opinion of them has steadily gone downhill from there.
 
This place is just rampant with blind faith.... it's like MacRumors is the church of Steve Jobs or something. :rolleyes:
 
While not doing anything is also a choice (I was also a child of the 80s, and Reagan did a whole lot of nothing :D),.

No argument there.

I think the larger point about consumer choice is still important - Apple's making a major vertical market play right now and HTML5 is part of its plans in this area. Adobe sincerely believes Flash is still the future of the Web, for better or for worse. But because both companies care more about content ownership then they do consumers, they're going to slug it out while the rest of us deal with the consequences.

I bought a Nexus One, I'll be getting Flash in a couple weeks. With a few hacks, I can watch Hulu right on my phone. That said, I'll likely leave Flash off since I block it for my everyday Web browsing via desktop/laptop. But the choice should be mine, and not Apple's or Adobe's.

Here's the thing though. Apple doesn't have a monopoly. If this were a product that had somehow managed to get 95% of the mobile phone market and had established itself as the de facto standard in various aspects of our lives, then maybe the omission of Flash could be viewed as consumers having to deal with the consequences of Apple's decisions. But there are loads of choices out there. It's a self-selecting thing--if you don't care for Flash, you're a potential iPhone buyer. I still have the choice. Apple hasn't removed any of my power. I've simply looked at their product and decided what they offer appeals to me and I don't care about Flash.

I understand your argument but I think it's disingenuous to frame it as if Apple were somehow forcing everyone into their way of doing things. They're not. And if people don't like Apple's decision to leave out Flash, they can buy other products. In the absence of a monopoly, consumer choice is still there.
 
May not be what people want to hear but I've got to say this is a pretty efficient version of Flash. Running at 15% on youtube and it relegates back to near zero on Macrumors banner ads pretty quickly. All in all probably the best version in a long while.

If they keep this level of improvements up it could end up putting Quicktime to shame!
 
No argument there.

Here's the thing though. Apple doesn't have a monopoly. If this were a product that had somehow managed to get 95% of the mobile phone market and had established itself as the de facto standard in various aspects of our lives, then maybe the omission of Flash could be viewed as consumers having to deal with the consequences of Apple's decisions. But there are loads of choices out there. It's a self-selecting thing--if you don't care for Flash, you're a potential iPhone buyer. I still have the choice. Apple hasn't removed any of my power. I've simply looked at their product and decided what they offer appeals to me and I don't care about Flash.

I understand your argument but I think it's disingenuous to frame it as if Apple were somehow forcing everyone into their way of doing things. They're not. And if people don't like Apple's decision to leave out Flash, they can buy other products. In the absence of a monopoly, consumer choice is still there.

Being a monopoly and acting monopolistic are two different things. Pointing out Apple's power grab isn't disingenuous, it's a fact. There's a reason why all of these companies are under Federal investigation for various ways they're handling and delivering content: Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc.

And you're right - I evaluated the iPhone's benefits and shortcomings, and opted out of it.
 
So after installing 10.1 I now get lag in youtube and vimeo HD videos. Only in fullscreen mode though. It was silky smooth before this update. And this is with the MBP in my sig with the 1440x900 resolution screen. Ive tried restarting the computer and repairing permissions. Still laggy results. Anyone else notice this? And also is there a way to go back to my previous version of Flash?

Please elaborate by what you mean by lag? Any URLs for examples? Thanks

Cheers.
 
Being a monopoly and acting monopolistic are two different things.

That's true, but as long as you don't have an actual monopoly in a given market, behaving in a monopolistic manner is perfectly legal. Sure, maybe it's annoying or maybe it reminds us of other monopolistic practices in the past, but there's nothing illegal about a company being cutthroat in their business practices.

That's why I'm absolutely puzzled by all the uproar about Apple's decision to cut AdMob out of their user stats. AdMob is a competitor to Apple, and there are people out there actually making the argument that it's illegal for Apple to refuse to share their marketing data with a competitor. Huh?
 
2. H.264
Is not avaialble in this release but will be available later as the post suggest. This is INDEED due to the newly made API's that Apple released for H.264 decoding in 10.6.3. "matticus008" is wrong!
No, H.264 specialized is new for Flash 10.1, across the board (Windows included).

The problems with Flash Player's relative performance compared to Windows have nothing to do with the recently-released API, because the Windows version of Flash wasn't using the Microsoft equivalent, either. Adobe's failure to provide general hardware acceleration or to update their codebase are completely unrelated to a relatively minor feature that was just added for Windows. The whole H.264 issue is nothing more than a distraction.

It is imperative that people stop mistakenly conflating GPU offloading and general hardware acceleration with specialized acceleration of individual codecs.
8. Video Playback ( software engine )
Improvements here where most notable on the Mac platform which has seen a double digit reduction in the amount of CPU used for decoding H.264 content.
Yes, based entirely on the long-overdue Cocoa rewrite, thus giving them access to the Core technologies, including OpenGL texturization in full screen mode.

These benefits could have been realized long ago.
 
You're referencing the low-level API introduced in March, making your rhetorical question a circular one.

Note the prominent disclaimer on the page you link: "IMPORTANT: The Video Decode Acceleration framework only decodes video frame data and does not provide video playback or stream parsing capabilities. Using the QTKit QTMovie object with QTMovieOpenForPlaybackAttribute enabled is the recommended way for applications to automatically access GPU accelerated playback of H.264 encoded media."

QTMovie and related APIs have been hardware accelerated by the system as long as there has been hardware acceleration. H.264 specialized acceleration is relatively new, but also available through the system. H.264 specialized acceleration outside of QTKit was a bone tossed in their direction, but something other developers had long been able to use. "Apple doesn't provide the API" has always been demonstrably false.

Because "this" is a conflation on your part of two discrete APIs. VDADecode is new; QTMovie's system acceleration and GPU offloading is not. It's been available as long as CoreVideo has existed (10.4). You are also conflating general hardware acceleration with specialized codec acceleration. Adobe's performance problems are based on the fact that until 10.1, they took advantage of neither.

There is an equally huge difference between letting system frameworks do the heavy lifting and reinventing the wheel without regard for those system frameworks. Adobe coded for Windows and then, when porting to other platforms like Linux, OS X, and Solaris, lost those advantages. There can be no denying that fact.

It's a perfectly valid choice, but not one that supports an argument that the reason there's no video acceleration is because no one else would let you.

A red herring on two levels. First, Quartz plugins have been possible since Firefox 2's Leopard update (October 2007) and even longer for Safari.

Second, the plugin framework is just for the plugin executable itself--the associated processes and media can and do pass through separately if built correctly, just as the many PDF plugins from the early days of Firefox demonstrate. Even Firefox's QuickTime plugin triggered the system processes in 2005. If the limitation were the browser, that wouldn't have been possible.

Adobe was forced to wait on neither browser developers nor Apple. They waited until now because they chose to do so. It is as simple as that.



@matticus008 ...
Good use of technical jargon, but it's ALOT easier said than done... do you have even the remotest sense of how difficult it is to take graphics data from one stack and push into another in real time?

The Flash Player has it's own graphics rendering engine and stack which is why content looks the same across all devices. This is accomplished by NOT using OS dependent graphics libraries. For example if Adobe where to use the quicktime framework in Flash, they would have 2 different rendering experiences one on Windows and one on Mac. The number one goal ( and in my opinion a huge selling point for content publishers ) in the Flash Player is to guarantee that the same content will render the same way across all platforms. THIS CANNOT BE DONE USING OS DEPENDENT RENDERING LIBRARIES!!!

Hope that is simple enough.
 
You're referencing the low-level API introduced in March, making your rhetorical question a circular one.

Note the prominent disclaimer on the page you link: "IMPORTANT: The Video Decode Acceleration framework only decodes video frame data and does not provide video playback or stream parsing capabilities. Using the QTKit QTMovie object with QTMovieOpenForPlaybackAttribute enabled is the recommended way for applications to automatically access GPU accelerated playback of H.264 encoded media."
I'll translate that to English: No non-MOV containers need apply, with the old API. All parties welcome, even Enemies of Steve, with the new API.

VLC tried to implement hardware acceleration of H264 and also found it to be unusable. Now that 10.6.3 has exposed true container-independent APIs that work on ONLY the raw H264 stream data, they will be able to do it. Same with Adobe.

Adobe was forced to wait on neither browser developers nor Apple. They waited until now because they chose to do so. It is as simple as that.

Name one app that uses the old APIs to do H264 acceleration for something more than just a little window with a Quicktime video playing, not made by Apple.
 
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