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So what is an actual alternative for Lightroom? Something that can do cataloging. I don't care so much for the editing part, that is easy replaceable. I have been searching, but haven't found anything yet...
Lightroom has one of the best DAMs, the industry is just now realizing that we want the ability to categorize and organize our images, not just edit them.

You can actually use Lightroom without a subscription, the editing module is the only feature that is turned off without a subscription
 
I still think Adobe offers a unique product in Lightroom CC. The ability to have my raw files accessible from anywhere on practically any device with edits syncing across all of them is amazing. Plus, LR has one of the best DAMs out there. I don't know of any other system that offers all of this.
 
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Shareholder smart assess following hot on their tail.
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Pixologic, the (privately owned) company who makes ZBrush (arguably the best 3D sculpting app in the world) hasn’t charged license holders for upgrades for more than a decade and a half. Each upgrade they bring out is packed to the rafters with innovative technology and features. They have successfully held off rival app (Mudbox) from that nasty behemoth, Autodesk.

So it can be done, when the the company owners are talented, passionate and dedicated, and equally as important, when shareholders/stock market stay the fokc out, as they ruin all good things eventually.
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My personal favourite:

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Adobe knocking it out of the park! :rolleyes:
At least I'm not acting like I know if this was the right decision. Adobe has been an excellent company for years.
 
I still think Adobe offers a unique product in Lightroom CC. The ability to have my raw files accessible from anywhere on practically any device with edits syncing across all of them is amazing. Plus, LR has one of the best DAMs out there. I don't know of any other system that offers all of this.

I agree completely. LR CC is fine for my needs - and I recognise my needs are not the same as everyone else's - and in combination with PS Express on an iPad Pro gives me a workflow that fits what I want to do. When I used PS on a Mac I never really used the advanced features - for me that means layers - so I won't be going for the £20 option but that's no complaint or criticism of the product.
 
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At least I'm not acting like I know if this was the right decision. Adobe has been an excellent company for years.
No it hasn't. All of the designers who enjoyed using Macromedia's FreeHand still hate their guts to this day (and for what? Foisting that Flash web cancer upon us all? Good thing it finally died, but nothing's bringing back FreeHand), and though InDesign was a welcome change from the even worse QuarkXPress, it has since lost its luster.

I can't wait for the day Affinity Publisher finally gets a competitive multiline composer equivalent so I can finally drop that turd. If and when they also bring auto-tracing to Affinity Designer, I will also be able to drop the entire suite altogether. Seeing how Serif devs have been teasing for a while an upcoming Affinity DAM component to become the spiritual successor to Aperture and compete head-on with Lightroom, I'd say Adobe is pretty much screwed at this point. The shareholders, you and other fanboys, as well as über-professional (or non-freelancing) users who can bear the burden of a CC subscription may not see it, but they really are.

Being aspirational products, they used to get huge one-time – but also recurring, yes, albeit often on an every-other-year-basis – revenues from small freelancers, prosumers and amateurs alike. Now, they have to contend with Affinity *and* a once-again cross-platform CorelDraw suite, which, guess what, still offer perpetual licences at vastly cheaper prices. Ohh boy. If I were an Adobe shareholder, I'd also be selling my stock right now.
 
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No it hasn't. All of the designers who enjoyed using Macromedia's FreeHand still hate their guts to this day (and for what? Foisting that Flash web cancer upon us all? Good thing it finally died, but nothing's bringing back FreeHand), and though InDesign was a welcome change from the even worse QuarkXPress, it has since lost its luster.

I can't wait for the day Affinity Publisher finally gets a competitive multiline composer equivalent so I can finally drop that turd. If and when they also bring auto-tracing to Affinity Designer, I will also be able to drop the entire suite altogether. Seeing how Serif devs have been teasing for a while an upcoming Affinity DAM component to become the spiritual successor to Aperture and compete head-on with Lightroom, I'd say Adobe is pretty much screwed at this point. The shareholders, you and other fanboys, as well as über-professional (or non-freelancing) users who can bear the burden of a CC subscription may not see it, but they really are.

Being aspirational products, they used to get huge one-time – but also recurring, yes, albeit often on an every-other-year-basis – revenues from small freelancers, prosumers and amateurs alike. Now, they have to contend with Affinity *and* a once-again cross-platform CorelDraw suite, which, guess what, still offer perpetual licences at vastly cheaper prices. Ohh boy. If I were an Adobe shareholder, I'd also be selling my stock right now.
Yes, they have...

All your complaints are your own conjecture.

The facts are, Adobe has grown from a $45B company to a $135B in company in THREE years. They've added $90B in value over that period. They know what they are doing, just like Apple.

You can be along for the ride or not, but your opinion isn't the opinion of their customers (CLEARLY) based on the value created.
 
Yes, they have...

All your complaints are your own conjecture.

The facts are, Adobe has grown from a $45B company to a $135B in company in THREE years. They've added $90B in value over that period. They know what they are doing, just like Apple.

You can be along for the ride or not, but your opinion isn't the opinion of their customers (CLEARLY) based on the value created.

What value? I own a CS5 Design Standard licence and tried all CS and CC versions after that (including the shameful CS5.5 service pack, artificially elevated to full-blown version status and, thus, preventing me and others from upgrading to a hypothetical CS7 which never came – in name, at least, because CC is still updated on an annual basis like CS was before it, completely exposing Adobe's ruse; that's when I started actively hating that company to its guts for real).

The new features are incremental at best, and more recently are mostly rip-offs from Affinity features. Adobe hasn't been creating any real value for TOO MANY of their customers for a long, loooong time.

If the only measure of success you have for any given company is value generated for shareholders, I have a Blackberry and a bridge to sell you.
 
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What value? I own a CS5 Design Standard licence and tried all CS and CC versions after that (including the shameful CS5.5 service pack, artificially elevated to full-blown version status and, thus, preventing me and others from upgrading to a hypothetical CS7 which never came – in name, at least, because CC is still updated on an annual basis like CS was before it, completely exposing Adobe's ruse; that's when I started actively hating that company to its guts for real).

The new features are incremental at best, and more recently are mostly rip-offs from Affinity features. Adobe hasn't been creating any real value for TOO MANY of their customers for a long, loooong time.

If the only measure of success you have for any given company is value generated for shareholders, I have a Blackberry and a bridge to sell you.
Market value. People like the products because sales say so.
 
The comments are going to be filled with a lot of upset users.

Photographer: Doesn't blink at spending $1500-5000 on a new lens, or $3000-5000 on a new camera body, or $300-800 on a new tripod, or $400-900 on a new flash, or $150 a pop on new UHS-II SD cards, or $800-3000 on a Thunderbolt RAID setup and SSDs, or $3000-7000 on a new Mac, or $800-2000 on a second and third display, or thousands of dollars on lighting equipment and backdrops and travel and paying models and grips.

Also photographer: Freaks out at having to pay Adobe a couple hundred bucks a year to edit, organize, share, and store all of their photos.

Y'all suck.

I think you're confusing the average hobby or small business photographer who's struggling to justify the current $10/month, let alone a 100% increase to $20/mth, or affording even one decent lens, with successful photography businesses. Even pro photogs earning a good living balk at those expenses, you're listing top of the line products which are one-off business investments in order to make a living in the high-end. They can write a lot of that off on tax, including the Adobe subscription, as a business expense. A $5000 lens is NOT the norm, not even a Zeiss Otus costs that much, a Nikon D850 or Z7 is around $3000 and a business investment for the next decade. What people are balking at is subscription software in general, and the high cost in particular. Doubling their prices is greedy, however you swing it. $20/mth for most ppl is a lot for most people, however you spin it.
It's great that you're independently wealthy, but most of us aren't. Yeah, it sucks not being able to afford things, but it sucks even more to be someone looking down on others who aren't as fortunate as you. So suck off.
 
All you need to do is to download the apps, and turn your wifi off when opening them, turn it on again and that is it. No need to subscribe or anything.
I don't use Lightroom, I use Capture One, and before that Aperture. The only Adobe app I have is Photoshop, which I'm weening myself off slowly in favour of Affinity; it doesn't do everything Photoshop does, but for my current needs, it does everything I want it to, and a lot faster.

You might try getting Radio Silence (radiosilenceapp.com), it's a small unobtrusive outbound application firewall, so you can add any app you don't want calling home, and it sits quietly in the background, unlike something like Little Snitch, which is a more comprehensive network monitoring and firewall tool, which takes some training with lots of notifications. I expect CC apps would require periodic checkins, I don't know, since my copy of Photoshop is 'fixed'. I understand Lightroom CC will allow you to always access your catalog even when a subscription runs out, just not add or modify it. For someone like me, I have way too many photos for Lightroom CC's cloud, so would need Classic. And I don't care to have them held hostage to a subscription service.
 
Market value. People like the products because sales say so.
Eh? How do you equate sales with liking a product? Seems to me that Adobe, like Autodesk, have a stranglehold on the market. People have little choice but to use their products, especially in bigger studios. As such, any increase in price can hardly be equated to "People love the product and are happy to pay". That is just . . . a bizarre way to look at things.
 
Eh? How do you equate sales with liking a product? Seems to me that Adobe, like Autodesk, have a stranglehold on the market. People have little choice but to use their products, especially in bigger studios. As such, any increase in price can hardly be equated to "People love the product and are happy to pay". That is just . . . a bizarre way to look at things.
Is your anecdotal story better than growing sales data?
 
Even at 9.99 it was still twice as much per year for Lightroom versus the old perpetual license annual cost, even assuming one kept upgrading to the current version at every iteration.

So they are doubling again, to 4x the old Lightroom price.

But if they keep at least 51% of their customer base I guess it’s a win?
 
So which of them replaces Lightroom?

IMHO, Capture One Pro v12 is significantly better across a number of criteria including RAW processing, speed, workflow, customisation, and pricing model. Add-ins properly introduced in v12. Ecosystem appears very vibrant. It’s not super cheap, but is a standout category leader, backed by a developer who is actively improving/developing the product.
 
IMHO, Capture One Pro v12 is significantly better across a number of criteria including RAW processing, speed, workflow, customisation, and pricing model. Add-ins properly introduced in v12. Ecosystem appears very vibrant. It’s not super cheap, but is a standout category leader, backed by a developer who is actively improving/developing the product.

I can't avoid thinking few use DAM features of Lightroom. At least most recommendations for e replacement are targeted at developing raws...
 
From what I understand it was always meant to be a promotion. They charge $19.99/mo for their other standalone apps, like if you want Illustrator. Actually I just looked it up and it's $20.99 now.

“Original intent” is very much moot at this point.


Yes, I'm always expanding my lens lineup. Also over time my lenses don't keep up with my camera technology. My Canon L lenses designed in the late 90s can't resolve what modern 50MP cameras can today. Newer versions are custom designed for the newer sensors. Also I switched from Canon to Sony because Canon has fallen so far behind so I've been building up the library again and Sony has way more options with the short sensor distance able to adapt all sorts of lenses.

And of course, you threw out all that old glass, recovering not a penny of its original cost /s

Your photos aren't being held hostage. That's a complete mischaracterization at best and an outright lie at worst. You can take your photos wherever you please unless you trashed your RAWs and have no backups and no means to download them from the cloud, which would be weird.

So to clarify, if you entirely bought into the ecosystem and transformed all of your originals into .psd’s and/or uploaded into their cloud, Adobe has your data in lockdown...

Not for an actual photographer.

Oh, look: it’s a “No True Scotsman” logical fallacy.

Also I run the finances, not my wife. You're confusing "photographer" with "some guy who likes to take pictures."

Oh, look: a personal attack, which is a TOS violation.

Sorry, no “/S” tag on this one. Or a smiley.

It would be like saying you're a cinematographer because you recorded your niece's birthday party on your phone, or you're an EMT because you cleaned and bandaged your son's wound. Words matter. But as I said above, it would be great if Adobe offered Lightroom Elements for hobbyists. I just don't know if they want to enter that market.

Text retained for documentation purposes, in case you try to delete your Ad Hominem attack.

I like it. It makes everything a simple fixed cost for taxes and comes with other perks we didn't have before such as cloud storage and mobile apps.

YMMV. Since software is tax-deductible in the year of purchase, it doesn’t really matter too much.

And “perks” like cloud storage just isn’t a big deal that’s really central to the craft. Particularly given how long it takes to transfer up to only 1TB when on the road.

It's not like you buy this stuff every year, but giving an example of the range of photography expenses as a comparison. My point was Lightroom is more valuable to me than a new lens or even a new camera body because I can't even continue working without my editor and library.

Good DAM tools do matter ... a lot. And while this may be new news for some people, Clifford Stoll actually warned of this as an IT issue over twenty years ago: ISBN 0-330-34442-0. ... and the software rental business model actually makes this IT management issue worse, not better.
 
Oh look, everything nasty expected of subscription software has been coming true... Shock. Surprise. (None at all)
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Yeah, I guess it sucks for regular users who just do it as a hobby. But for real photographers it's a drop in the bucket. I bet what happened is their cloud costs have dropped and their regular development costs have increased with inflation so they are wanting to increase the price and are hoping to see this as a way to do it without seeming like it.

So much logical fallacy and belief in corporate mythology...
 
“Original intent” is very much moot at this point.
No it's not. They charge more for every other singular app. You're just being salty and don't want to admit it.
And of course, you threw out all that old glass, recovering not a penny of its original cost /s
You'd be surprised how little you get for older Canon glass that doesn't work well on the latest high MP bodies. But you're still ignoring the fact that you don't own the software. It's illegal to sell it to someone else because you're in violation of the terms of the agreement, which is legally binding whether you think so or not.
So to clarify, if you entirely bought into the ecosystem and transformed all of your originals into .psd’s and/or uploaded into their cloud, Adobe has your data in lockdown...
To clarify, it would be pretty stupid to transform all RAW files into PSDs. RAW files will work with any editing suite, as long as the app has been updated to support the camera. I don't know any photographer who does this. Sometimes you finish photos in Photoshop, but if you're editing every photo in PS instead of LR then you're doing it wrong. I was also under the impression that you save flattened, finished PSDs out as 16-bit TIFFs. This is what they always had us do in college. Furthermore, Adobe even offers the DNG format, which is open source.
Oh, look: it’s a “No True Scotsman” logical fallacy.
Oh look, it's the "I took a debate class one time in high school" fallacy.
Oh, look: a personal attack, which is a TOS violation.

Sorry, no “/S” tag on this one. Or a smiley.
Report me. Do it now if you feel it's warranted. It takes quite a bit of insecurity to somehow think the words "some guy" means "-hh". You're not going to win that argument ever as nothing in what I said was aimed at you in any way.

Text retained for documentation purposes, in case you try to delete your Ad Hominem attack.
What is your deal, dude? Who hurt you?? This made me laugh. What a weird thing to write!
YMMV. Since software is tax-deductible in the year of purchase, it doesn’t really matter too much.
Text retained for documentation purposes because I wanted an excuse to use a big word to show other people on the internet how smart I am: Non sequitur. Straw man.
And “perks” like cloud storage just isn’t a big deal that’s really central to the craft. Particularly given how long it takes to transfer up to only 1TB when on the road.
Maybe get a better ISP? Some photographers have multiple sims for this reason. You can still dump to your iPad on the road and have it sync to your Mac when you're back at the hotel.

I don't even think you know how any of this works, which is weird because you seem so against it but don't seem to understand it. If you're wanting to have your work with you, you're not having to download 1TB every time you open Lightroom. You can choose to cache lower resolution proxies locally. It's called a Smart Preview. It only syncs the sidecar files over the cloud unless you are loading up a fresh device for the first time or having to upload new files from a shoot. You're not going to be uploading 1TB every time you travel. Usually this is done during ingest when you get back to your Mac and have a fistful of SD cards. Then the photos become available on all your other devices. I can dump to SSD, this triggers an automatic backup to archives, and the smart previews are sent up to the cloud. I can grab my iPad and head out the door and kick back in my hammock editing on my iPad Pro. It absolutely fantastic. I can get them 90-95% of the way there, which is good enough to share to web most of the time, and get them print-ready on the Mac doing test strips with a precisely calibrated monitor and environment in my studio.
Good DAM…
Did I break you or something?
…tools do matter ... a lot. And while this may be new news for some people, Clifford Stoll actually warned of this as an IT issue over twenty years ago: ISBN 0-330-34442-0. ... and the software rental business model actually makes this IT management issue worse, not better.
The hardware isn't anything without the software. The reverse is also true. They are both important. You're not making yourself look good when you say that things like Lightroom (and by proxy the old-school darkroom) don't matter.

Your comments aren't going to age well. You're here writing ISBN numbers for some 20 year old book on the internet and meanwhile the world is passing you by. I suggest you take a step back and think about things from a broader perspective.

The cloud isn't this evil thing. I have several college interns and they barely even use local storage. Everything is in the cloud. Everything. And it's super convenient and time saving. They never lose data, they never forget data, they can always search their data intelligently, and everything is available instantly. I remember that even when I was in college around the time Dropbox came out it saved me. We had to log in to a computer at school and copy our document off a flash drive into a "faculty drop box" on the local network. When I plugged my drive in something went wrong with it and it was unreadable. I had a copy in Dropbox and logged in, pulled it down, and was able to turn it in. Saved me as that project was like 20% of my grade and the professor was strict. It was way back then that I realized the value of cloud storage. Everything is moving to that. As I've gotten older I have learned an important lesson: The world moves on, whether I want it to or not. The sooner you realize that, the happier you will be. Or just stay mad forever. I don't care.
 
The cloud is annoying insecure for your data. But no wonder American users don't want to see this 8( I don't get it. The RAWs are your most valuable possession as a photographer - Why give them away to some insecure internet company? Way to many such companies have died or gotten hacked...
 
The cloud is annoying insecure for your data. But no wonder American users don't want to see this 8( I don't get it. The RAWs are your most valuable possession as a photographer - Why give them away to some insecure internet company? Way to many such companies have died or gotten hacked...

There’s that, plus another issue with the cloud is that it is at risk of being as high (or higher) IT maintenance than a local hard drive, which was part of what Clifford Stoll’s “Silicone Snake Oil” book was about.

Case in point: family photo guy “Uncle Ralph” dies, the cloud account goes unpaid and by the time the Family’s executor figures out where his digital assets were stored, the provider who didn’t get paid for a few months has deleted the account and data.

Or, when one is on the road, bandwidth adequate to link up to do whatever may not be adequate. For example, a house we rent in the Caribbean has a whopping {4Mbps down/0.4Mbps up}, so even a single 16GB card would take no less than ~4 days (47.5 hours) to upload.

Similarly, the domestic ubiquity of cellular availability, bandwidth, and at a reasonable cost is very much a “first world” assumption which can be a rude surprise: I’ve incurred a legitimate $1500 bill on an EU trip where a SIM swap wasn’t a viable option...

Bottom line is that it is a tool in the toolbox, which merits making a deliberative analysis and IT management plan on just how to implement so as to take advantage of what it can offer, while minimizing it’s downsides.
 
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