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I wonder what the 100 apps that already use it are?

^^ Most important question in this thread.

If this list was disclosed, it would really clarify the validity of Apple's decision as well as several of our personal opinions.

If deep and rich apps, for example, like N.O.V.A were created using Flash Pro (doubtful), I would think that Flash Pro is a pretty competent application.

If something like Mafia Wars and the seemingly endless clones by Zynga of all-interface/no-gameplay apps were created with Flash Pro, then no big loss.
 
Fallout?

Flash IS a big deal on the internet, no matter what either side may say. My kids love my iPad, but would love it more if all their favorite websites (Nick Jr., PBS Kids, Webkinz, etc.) would work on the thing. But they will not work on the iPad, and that is a big deal in our house.

For myself, I am more concerned about this spat going even further. Could someday Photoshop and other CS components be Windows-only if things get out of hand?
 
In one quick move Apple cuts off its nose to spite its face.

I have no love for Flash, but Apple could have simply made no effort to support it (as they are doing by banning it from iDevices) instead of actively attacking a cross-compiling dev tool.

If devs want to compile apps with some other tool, who cares? If the native app runs fine, what does it matter? If the native app is sloppy, the marketplace will reject it.

Apple can continue to enhance the platform, release new APIs, etc. and it's up to the devs to keep up. If Flash compilers don't keep up, they'll get left behind. The apps would have to maintain parity with C language apps or customers will reject them for better wares. This is not a problem for Apple, they're just being petty.
Very well said. Apple should have just let the market decide. As long as the end code meets Apple's requirements, how it is made should not be their concern. If the compiler makes crappy apps, then let the market push them into obscurity which it will inevitably do.
 
Most of you don't seem to realize how negative this is.

It has nothing to do with Flash player resource hogging, or efficient coding of Apps, or any of that. This is Apple strong-arming developers away from writing apps for iPhone/iPad/iPod that can also be easily ported to other platforms in a strategic effort to undercut those other platforms.

Inefficient apps could easily (and already are) be rejected from the App Store if they use too many resources on the phone. The Flash-to-Obj-C compiler can create clean-efficient, fast-running code. There is no flash in the end product.

If you've used Flash on a modern PC, you would know that having access to hardware acceleration has greatly improved the Flash experience. Apple's decision not to play along has its merits in that case, but it is by no means a cut-and-dry win-win.

I've been to quite a few HTML5-based sites that hang Safari or just plain don't work very well (youtube is a prominent example) on my Mac Pro.

Apple is making some big enemies lately, and they might end up regretting it. If the entire Creative Suite was discontinued for the Mac, do you think Mac-based CS users would switch to an alternative program suite, or switch to an alternative platform?

As a graphic designer/photographer, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that there is no workable alternative to the current indesign/photoshop/illustrator/flash/dreamweaver/acrobat workflow.

What Apple has done is akin to Adobe restricting PDF viewing permissions to Adobe Reader/Acrobat programs only, and blocking future PDF document versions from opening in "Preview" or any other non-Adobe app.

Apple seems to think that the momentum is on their side, but they don't realize how fickle people can be. Google could easily disable maps on all apple products, disable youtube on iphone, disable gmail access from apple products, and whatever else they have that people rely on, and believe me, if that happened, I would leave Apple before I left Google. I will not ever change my email address again if I can help it. There is no viable alternative to the Adobe Creative Suite. If Apple wants to ruin that relationship, and users are left to pick between their career or their computer OS, I think that's a game Apple will lose. Do you realize how many Macs are sold into college and high school campuses every year because of the Creative Suite alone?
 
this is the right approach

Let the market decide. And if Flash is SO needed for wonderful internet experiences than Apple will continue to fail in selling iPhones and iPads ; >

And Android will prove unstoppable. But if people actually are OK, or PREFERto surf the web without the magic that is Flash, well than, Suck It Adobe.

Die Flash, die!

(I know it will not happen overnight, but anything to rid us of the wretched pestilence known as Flash is a step toward a better universe.)
 
Flash will be around in 10 years just like ie6 is still being used today. Personally, I'd prefer to have the option in my iPhone (enabled by my choice only) to having no option. Even so, I overall dislike flash not because of flash itself but the type of things usually done in flash (annoying ads). Apple has a legitimate business case for blocking flash iPhone apps. We'll see if it pays off or not in a couple of years.
 
In one quick move Apple cuts off its nose to spite its face.

I have no love for Flash, but Apple could have simply made no effort to support it (as they are doing by banning it from iDevices) instead of actively attacking a cross-compiling dev tool.

If devs want to compile apps with some other tool, who cares? If the native app runs fine, what does it matter? If the native app is sloppy, the marketplace will reject it.

Apple can continue to enhance the platform, release new APIs, etc. and it's up to the devs to keep up. If Flash compilers don't keep up, they'll get left behind. The apps would have to maintain parity with C language apps or customers will reject them for better wares. This is not a problem for Apple, they're just being petty.

the problem would be that it would be a native flash runtime bundled with an flash application. Flash would stay flash. and would still only be interpreted and not native.

otherwise they could just compile flash to objective c and then use xcode to build it all without some strange runtime layer.
 
whine to go with the popcorn

So they stopped development of Fl > Obj-C. They can spend more time on improving Dreamweaver / HTML / Canvas.

I've been programming for a very long time and have taught programming. Write-Once-Run-Anywhere is good on paper not always great implementation and Apple made a command decision.

No matter how good you are (stock at $260 yesterday)... somebody, somewhere doesn't like you ;-)
 
Read his comment. NO smartphone has a full featured desktop equivalent of Flash. Flash is the watered down version of what we have now. HTML5 is fully supported.

And he never said we need to redesign the Internet for mobile devices. He said mobile devices are the growth in the Internet industry. Flash fails there.
Flash is not here now but is supposedly coming so I agree on the first point but how can we not "redesign the Internet for mobile devices" when the majority of sites currently use flash?

By changing to HTML5, wouldn't they in fact be "redesign(ing) the Internet for mobile devices"?

Please don't take my questioning things as a negative towards HTML5, I absolutely LOVE open standards and do hope that HTML5 succeeds but I want it with no detrimental effects to what we have now.
 
I wonder what the 100 apps that already use it are?

It would be nice to have a list. I have 132 apps right now. would be nice to know which ones will not be updated ever again; or would not work in the future should Apple find a way to disable them with the new OS (which would suck if I paid for them - Apple should issue refunds if they ever did that, for those apps).

I would like to have a list, so that I can find alternatives. If they are just games - well who cares (just my opinion, I am not a huge gamer). But if they are productivity, business, or reference apps (like Stanza, Logos, News feeds, Photo editing ,etc), then that becomes a bigger issue.

Please somebody come up with a list and post it.

ARN - assignment for you, maybe a page 2 thread.;)
 
What Apple has done is akin to Adobe restricting PDF viewing permissions to Adobe Reader/Acrobat programs only, and blocking future PDF document versions from opening in "Preview" or any other non-Adobe app.

Not really. It would be more like someone developing a wildly popular and defacto standard scripting language for PDFs that Adobe does not control. Adobe would then block that because the scripting language removes the future development control of the PDF document format from them and gives it to the company that wrote the new scripting language.

Do you realize how many Macs are sold into college and high school campuses every year because of the Creative Suite alone?

None. Creative Suite is available for Windows, so why would it be a deciding factor between the two platforms?
 
Flash Packager didn't convert to Objective C, it created a native ARM .ipa directly.

If Flash Packager generated an Objective C XCode project that you used XCode to compile (like Unity) than it would be okay.

I am not a Unity expert, but my cursory examination leads me to believe that you code your Unity game in C# and it compiles using Mono libraries (open port of .net). It then creates a Xcode project linking these binaries.

That clearly runs afoul of the new license agreement as well, so it will be interesting to watch what happens.
 
^^ Most important question in this thread.

If this list was disclosed, it would really clarify the validity of Apple's decision as well as several of our personal opinions.

If deep and rich apps, for example, like N.O.V.A were created using Flash Pro (doubtful), I would think that Flash Pro is a pretty competent application.

If something like Mafia Wars and the seemingly endless clones by Zynga of all-interface/no-gameplay apps were created with Flash Pro, then no big loss.
Can this start the list? http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashcs5/appsfor_iphone/

:D
 
Not liking Apple right now

I've used flash, Photoshop, and other Adobe product, I do use Mac, iPhone and it seems like the Apple vs. Adobe quarrel is getting in the way of producing good quality product. Not sure if Jobs woke up one day and in a whim decided to hate Adobe, but seem to me fewer and fewer support will be available between the two. That sux.
 
Not sure why people is happy about this. This is a free country lets the user decide if they want to use Flash or not on Iphones, ipads and I touchs!!

It is really easy stop supporting flash just because it would not work right with multitasking on the future. That is the Apple way........ stop supporting things that they were no able to make work.

I believe that Apple forgot that the main reason that a lot of designers move to a mac computer was to be able to use Adobe products without the pain of a PC.

Do you imagine 15 years ago Adobe quitting Apple versions of ADOBE!!

I will be really sure that Apple would not exist today....
 
Apple is not thinking about us users. They are being selfish and tyrant. Not cool... :mad:

No, Apple is taking charge of their own destiny.

Apple's numbers tell the tale, anyway. Adobe was full of baloney. I guess that means no lawsuit because there's nothing to sue over.
 
While this may be the best decision from a business perspective, does not mean its the best from a users perspective.

Some of the Apple arguments smack of prejudice. For example, saying that tools like this make lower quality apps. I thought apps should be judged on a case-by-case basis, rather than judgements based on origins or tools used in their creation. I thought that is a good thing; judging based on ability, not preconceived notions. I guess apple does not agree.
 
Flash is not here now but is supposedly coming so I agree on the first point but how can we not "redesign the Internet for mobile devices" when the majority of sites currently use flash?

By changing to HTML5, wouldn't they in fact be "redesign(ing) the Internet for mobile devices"?

Please don't take my questioning things as a negative towards HTML5, I absolutely LOVE open standards and do hope that HTML5 succeeds but I want it with no detrimental effects to what we have now.

You're right, we should go back to the 90's and use tables for layout and font tags instead of CSS. Kidding. Development happens either way. The Internet, like all development platforms will continue to evolve. We are faced with a choice right now, evolve with Flash and fragment the internet, or evolve to more open standards. Apple is throwing their weight behind open standards. Adobe is screaming and yelling because they want to control the Internet. Reminds me of Active X, for that reason alone I support Apple and open standards.
 
Apple is most certainly thinking of their users. Users vote with their dollars, and users have voted for Apple devices that DO NOT support Flash. Content providers want users to get their content. Now that Apple users have chosen no flash, content providers have to decide to alienate Apple customers or move away from Flash. I would bet a lot of money the latter happens. In the end, the users cares about the content, not how it is provided.

Where is your evidence of that? Some people have "voted" for no flash because they just buy whatever new tech that Apple puts out. Remember that developers are also users. If the devs are unhappy, they will slow production and Apple will lose popularity. It's like a musical that takes place without a stage crew, sound crew, or lighting crew.
 
I've used flash, Photoshop, and other Adobe product, I do use Mac, iPhone and it seems like the Apple vs. Adobe quarrel is getting in the way of producing good quality product. Not sure if Jobs woke up one day and in a whim decided to hate Adobe, but seem to me fewer and fewer support will be available between the two. That sux.

Already started happening with premier elements and imovie. Adobe took the ilife08 version of imovie and produced and exact replica for Windows users (including the part people complained about -lack of timeline). Then they stopped releasing premier elements for mac, as "imovie is the preferred movie editor on the mac; and is free with every new mac. we are therefore giving the windows users imovie and will no longer release for the mac"

when I have time I will cite the source.
 
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