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Adobe's Next Upgrades - Photoshop 8, Illustrator 11, InDesign 3.0

Originally posted by Mac Kiwi
I agree :)


Only thing is with no Quark Indesign has no real competition and Indesign will get much dearer to buy. jmo
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What you said is quite true. If Quark disappears indesign may become as shoddy as quark with no competition.

Well, not as shoddy, but not as good as can be. No one has the ability to top quark, and Moto with late product launches, and poor quality in some areas; Ex. Photoshop has no competition, and keeps getting better.
 
Apple's Photoshop killer?

Now that Apple has killed Premiere by coming out with the unbeatable Final Cut, does anyone think Photoshop or Illustrator is next in their line of sight?

If you look at the new DVD Studio Pro 2, it reuses some of the graphics engine from Keynote. This functionality sounds similar to what Adobe is doing with their new DVD authoring program (the name escapes me at the moment), and Adobe touts this as Photoshop code reuse.

So is the core graphics engine used in Keynote & DVDSP2 going to be used for a Photoshop killer app? Maybe a greatly enhanced iPhoto3 first?

It's funny how everyone said Keynote was the first salvo against Office. Maybe so, but maybe it was also the first salvo against Photoshop.

Is Adobe worried? Should Adobe be worried?
 
Photoshop 8

I have used photoshop 8 beta (code named Dark Matter as of this use) and it does seem to support the tools in 16 bit mode. There are a few interesting new tools that I have yet to play with. Overall, the look and feel hasnt changed much from PS7. But I will say this, even for a beta, it does seem quicker.
 
A real OS X App

My biggest wish for Photoshop 8 is that it's a real OS X app - compatible with multiple user accounts. Right now, if you switch user accounts, you can have trouble. Oh, and let's get rid of that Vise installer and have a real OS X installer this time.

The fact that it's not OS9 compatible is promising in this regard.
 
Re: Re: Re: Photoshop Wishes

Originally posted by mvc
Why dark blue? Dark blue shadows work for Monet and Disney but in real life I would have thought a good rich black would be better (In CMYK thats 40% Cyan, 30% Magenta, 30% Yellow, 100% Black).

Once you do all your blurring/offsetting etc then set the shadow layer to be say 30% transparency on multiply or perhaps darken - thats closer to the truth I would have thought. :confused:
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Because shadows aren't black!

If you're outside, the ambient light from the blue sky gives shadows a bluish tinge. At sunrise or sunset, you get greater contrast because the light source is now warmer and the reflected fill light is often shifted towards the purple now.

Outside shows the extremes, but the same type of effects are seen anywhere. Just a touch of blue will make the shadows have more life, you don't have to overdue it. It doesn't even have to be consciously noticeable.

Depending on your environment, shadows can be yellow or red or green or whatever color. Just look around! - j
 
What a crock

So I now have to plunk down $129 per app again (except Acrobat which is now Pro and more expensive for the same features). I just got PS 7, Acrobat 5, Illustrator 10 and InDesign 2.

The only one that wouldn't really upset me is InDesign because it's been around forever it seems like.

Oh well, raiding the savings account again.
 
Re: Photoshop 8

Originally posted by PRIME CHUCK
I have used photoshop 8 beta (code named Dark Matter as of this use) and it does seem to support the tools in 16 bit mode. There are a few interesting new tools that I have yet to play with. Overall, the look and feel hasnt changed much from PS7. But I will say this, even for a beta, it does seem quicker.
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Thats what I like to hear,the meat and potatoes stuff :) ,not like the frills around the edge if you know what I mean.


Interesting new tools?....ooh no doubt for retouch,ya I know you cant say,a friend also has the beta but he never says a word,which is understandable.



As for Apple Adobe I think no OS9 compatibility would be at Apples behest as no OS 9 means all the hold outs {myself included} are screwed,and hey look G5s have arrived lets convert plays right into their hands.I do however hope {as close as Adobe and Apple are} that Apple dont poke Adobe just a bit hard one day,they have probably cost Adobe quite a bit of cash lately,but then again Indesign has probably offset that as well.



I hope Indesign could be bundled with the G5s,it was with G4s was it not?
 
Re: What a crock

Originally posted by jamilecrire
So I now have to plunk down $129 per app again (except Acrobat which is now Pro and more expensive for the same features). I just got PS 7, Acrobat 5, Illustrator 10 and InDesign 2.

The only one that wouldn't really upset me is InDesign because it's been around forever it seems like.

Oh well, raiding the savings account again.
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They have a cutoff date for when you get a free upgrade to the next version if you bought after a certain time,sorry I cant remember when it is,call Adobe you might be in luck if you bought your soft really recently :)
 
Pro Users

Regarding Apple and future applications being a photoshop killer, I see this as fairly unlikely.

Relationships between Apple and Adobe haven't been like they used to be lately, but there's no real rancor there either.

Adobe know that Apple users are a major market for their software, probably more so than just about any other software company, especially Photoshop and Illustrator.

Apple similarly know that Adobe Apps, again esp. Photoshop and Illustrator, are a key app in their lineup. They don't use it in their benchmarks for fun. If they lose Adobe's support, they lose a massive slice of an already tight market.

Designers by nature are quite fanatical, I've noticed. The pairing of Photoshop on Apple is an established standard. Anything that shifts that balance will NOT be to the wishes of these designers.

Apple's iPhotoshop (hypothetical and stupid software title) would be met with disinterest by even the most hardened Apple zealot who relies on a complex and polished package like Photoshop.

And such a release WOULD anger Adobe. The next version of Photoshop would be XP (or Longhorn or whatever) only, ala Premier.

Apple would then be forcing its users to abandon its own platform, or completely re-learn a major design tool. This is NOT a decision Apple want it's users having to make. This is not a decision Apple will allow to become even a question. Apple will stop at iPhoto. A respectable piece of software, though not as innovative as Apple want to suggest. (ACDSee has been doing most of it for years. On Mac and PC.)

At very most some Apple program such as iPhoto might take on some "Photoshop Elements"... er... elements. Basic digital editing for the consumer, digital camera crowd.

But they don't want to upset the balance in the professional Photoshop crowd.

Just my two cents. I'm usually wrong about most things.

:D

Later!
Matt
 
Hopefully the updated versions of Photoshop and Illustrator will make it into a "new" Mac Video Collection software package. I really want the new After Effects 6.0, but I'll gladly wait if Photoshop and Illustrator are going to be updated for it as well. Now that Premiere is PC only, the total price might come down some too (since it's one less piece of software for the Mac users, not that I really mind—Final Cut Pro is awesome).

The non-square pixels sounds hot to me, considering I was having to stretch things for aspect ratio correctness in Photoshop 7.

--Matt
 
If AI 11 doesn't feature multiple-page documents, I'm switching to FreeHand. I've waited long enough...
 
Yah, should Adobe pull Photoshop cause Apple decided to come out with some sort of photoshop equiv, guess what-end of Apple for me. While I love my mac, there's nothing like using an application that's the industry standard, and then being forced to use something else that will only be for mac people. I think the issue with Premiere was different. There wasn't anything on the mac platform that was considered a professional editor unless you sprung for a really expensive AVID. FCP changes all that. Adobe really didn't care. So Apple had to do something about that. But when it comes to image editing, I'd rather Apple stay away and let Adobe, who's software is the industry standard, compete with their competition in the marketplace.

Lately I've noticed that if the competition is Apple, developers simply pull their apps from the platform instead of competing. Where Macromedia or someone else to come out with a Photoshop-killer, then you'd see Adobe compete hard. But if Apple were to come out with something, forget it. Adobe on Longhorn XP only, and like I said before, at that point you can just kiss the Apple platform in the professional design market goodbye. Cause I don't think that people are wanting to totally rely on Apple for everything. Adobe makes some good apps, and I think where they're strong, there's no real need to compete (DVDSP is another exception cause again, there was nothing out there, it started a new market, so for Adobe to not bring over Encore DVD makes perfect sense, but they shouldn't feel threated by Apple-they just got beat to the punch)
 
I look forward to the G5 optimized Adobe apps (at least I'm hopeful that's what they'll be ;) )

As for a Photoshop killer? Nah, wouldn't be smart, there's plenty for Apple to work on as it is. A whole new package aimed at pro users? It would be quite some time before it would be wildly accepted and bug free for the most part.

And who here's using Keynote? ;)

D
 
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
As for a Photoshop killer? Nah, wouldn't be smart, there's plenty for Apple to work on as it is. A whole new package aimed at pro users? It would be quite some time before it would be wildly accepted and bug free for the most part.

And who here's using Keynote? ;)

D
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Well since I'm clearly in the minority here I'll make one more point and slowly fade away..... (Note: I have no inside information. This is 100% pure unadulterated speculation.)

Apple's timing couldn't be better to further my point, though. According to MacMinute.com, Apple just released a "Pro Application Support 1.1 Update" for all their pro applications: Final Cut Pro, Cinema Tools, Compressor, LiveType, Soundtrack, and DVD Studio Pro (well, OK, it doesn't include Keynote--dang, there goes my theory).

Anyway, Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro and Compressor and LiveType and Soundtrack are not applications. They are an architecture. Take a close look at them (especially DVDSP and LiveType and Soundtrack): they have all the same widgets and layouts and doodads (you know, those technical terms). GUI things that aren't quite the same as the Aqua GUI doodads (tabs, scrollbars, buttons). They have similar layout tools, toolbars, and other widgets. Dialog boxes, too.

It's an architecture, and it's something Apple will continue to build on in the same way they've built upon the iApps: leveraging functionality from one tool in another, same look and feel, etc.

I just think an Illustrator and/or Photoshop replacement are the logical conclusion. Not this year, but maybe 2004 or 2005.

Apple's goal is clearly to differentiate OS X apps (consumer and pro) from Windows apps, and Adobe has no interest in doing that.

<end of speculation>
 
Oh ok cool,I must be slipping,last thing I remember was seeing a pre release info at Adobe.The thing I like about 6 standard is that finally it has masking brushes :)



Ya Apple could not make a decent Photoshop not with all of Adobes patents etc,plus no Mac support hello dark side.Speaking of patents I think Adobe actually has the patent for tabbed palettes,imagine if they enforced that on everyone and not just tried to on Macromedia,imagine no tabbed palettes in anything except Adobe.....arrgh



MVC - That was for a PS drop shadow,like the layer styles ones.I almost always use a gradient of foreground to transparent for my shadows.Or another trick I use is you make a selection in the shape of your shadow,feather by 3 depending on image size then com j to a new layer,add a layer mask and use about 20 - 40 grey depending on the light conditions you are trying to match and apply a gradient of foreground to transparent on the mask,then zoom way in and apply curves and just slightly pull down the middle curves nodule until the color shifts,makes nice shadows,as does using the lightness slider in the hue and sat adjustment layers.
 
Apple is really pushing ahead with it's software side of business. i think this is reason for any software company to be worried, or at least put in a decent amount of effort to make their apps top notch.
 
But that's just the problem. Developers like Adobe aren't going to try to make their applications top notch-they're simply going to leave the market. Apple may want to differentiate themselves from the PC market, but frankly, if they try too hard by making all their own apps and kicking all the developers off their platform, they're going to differentiate themselves into oblivion. Believe me, 99% of the people I know are more loyal to their Adobe apps than they are to Apple. That's what we make money with-the applications that give us the ability to make the coolest stuff around. And minus DVD authoring and Editing (where FCP and DVDSP are way in the lead cause they were the first ones there and have had some great time to mature), Adobe apps are king. Apple better respect this relationship, cause I don't think they're going to want to find themselves without any important developers, and everything is going to have to be in-house, from office applications to image editing, etc.
 
Ya I agree with that.Apple have strong user support,I am a big fan but no PS would send me to Windows,Adobe have very real power and I hope Apple dont under estimate that,although I dont think they will.



When PS 5.5 was released I was rapt with that upgrade I loved it,but then when 6 came many many people draged their heels before upgrading,and I think that put paid to Adobe doing an incredibly good upgrade of PS again.



I am quite surprised MS have not tried to get Adobe to be honest.
 
5.5 was a hit

5.5 was so quickly taken up because it added a lot of web design features.

So in that respect it became a "must have" for a major section of people who were already using photoshop in collaboration with other software for "webbifying". (Such as Fireworks.)

This was Adobe catching up with what it's users were actually DOING. Unfortunately there really isn't a whole lot of stuff they can actually add that would get that large a segment.

Put simply there really hasn't been a NEED to upgrade since 5.5. I know people who still use that, though I'll admit they aren't very good.

Here's an interesting thought. Am I the only one that would love some sort of 3D engine?!

I can do a bit of 3DS Max work when I need to, but how cool would it be to be able to make objects with the solidity of true 3D Objects directly in Photoshop. Yes, you can fake it, but it's you never quite get that depth. And yes, I know there's a 3D filter, but it's not great. "Crap" would probably be a better description.

Maybe that's just me. Probably is. Oh well!

Matt
 
Yeah, I'd love that, and something like a nice 3d transform tool also. The "perspective" tool is absolutely terrible, and never does a good job. Something like what Kia's powertools had for 3-D layer transforms would be spectacular.
 
Ya 3d engine would be great....



There are some new plugins out now that do some reasonable light effects,with the ability to set your illumination angle,and they are getting better,still notcieable though as 2 gradients of foreground to transparent backed up against each other as a light beam though,but not to bad.



A more intuitive transform filter would be really nice as well,I am so sick of copy,flip horizontal,copy flip vertical,transform perspective myself.I only used the 3d filter once,that was all it took :)



I also use an app called Bodypaint 3D which for unwrapping and painting meshes and models etc in 3d space,but its kind of similar to PS,probably not to close to wear Adobe legal though :)
http://www.maxon.net/usa/index.html



I think its inevitable that PS will have some kind of 3d engine one day,they had Atmosphere or something like that whih did low end 3d.
 
Re: 5.5 was a hit

Originally posted by whitegold
Put simply there really hasn't been a NEED to upgrade since 5.5. I know people who still use that, though I'll admit they aren't very good.Matt
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Put simply, you haven't looked seriously at Photoshop 7. It is clearly superior and has features that make it much better than 5.5. Scripting support alone is worth the upgrade. And it's not that hard to create scripts that go way beyond what you can do with Actions. One example is being able to distinguish between horizontal and veritcal pictures. Impossible with actions.

Having been a Photoshop user every single day at work since '92, I can safely claim to know Photoshop pretty well (though I learn new things all the time to this day!) and I can agree that 6 was a ho-hum upgrade. But 7 is clearly worth it, and 8 will be too. (The RAW support alone will be worth it if you didn't buy it for 7).
 
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