MP 1,1-5,1 Advice on Updating my cMP 4,1>5,1 to Mojave

Engender

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 6, 2007
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0
Hello everyone,

I have a cMP 4,1>5,1, with a Xeon X5690 upgrade. I have a 256 GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD running in my PCIe slot via a Sedna PCI Express (PCIe) SATA III (6G) SSD Adapter, which I've been using for three years. I just installed a Sapphire Radeon RX 580, and I'm ready to upgrade to Mojave. But, I'm running out of space on the SSD.

I'm thinking I should upgrade the SSD to a 500 GB Samsung 860 EVO for more space. So, should I wait until I get the 500 GB SSD and do a fresh install of Mojave and then move all my docs and apps from the 256 GB SSD to the 500GB SSD?

Also, any thoughts on the Sedna - PCI Express (PCIe) Dual 2.5 Inch SATA III (6G) SSD Adapter? I'm thinking about getting one of those and then putting both the SSDs into the dual PCIe adapter. Does anyone know if I'm going to lose speed from the SSDs with the dual setup?

Thanks for any advice you have!
 

mikas

macrumors regular
Sep 14, 2017
205
78
Finland
You can update to Mojave now, buy a new SSD, put it in, and clone the system to the bigger SSD and then start using that one for boot. Old can be re-used for other tasks. I use CCC for cloning (Carbon Copy Cloner) but there are others.

An PCIe 2.0 x1 card speed limit is going to be 500MBps, which is approximately a SATA 3.0 drive speed today. Maybe I would not put two SSD in an x1 card if the other one is boot/app/cache/work drive, and the other is in active use too. For other uses it might be fine, and/or if the other drive is used only occasionally (eg. for backups or archiving purposes). Or if you happen to be short of drive slots and need one more.

You might want to explore the NVMe drives (with a PCIe adapter) too. The price difference is not so much anymore between SATA and NVMe. Good NVMe drive can have a lot better IOPS and certainly a much better continuous throughput than SATA drives do.

Between SATA and NVMe, in light non demanding use, it's not that much of a measurable difference to user though.
 
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Engender

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 6, 2007
46
0
An PCIe 2.0 x1 card speed limit is going to be 500MBps, which is approximately a SATA 3.0 drive speed today. Maybe I would not put two SSD in an x1 card if the other one is boot/app/cache/work drive, and the other is in active use too. For other uses it might be fine, and/or if the other drive is used only occasionally (eg. for backups or archiving purposes). Or if you happen to be short of drive slots and need one more.
I was thinking about using the 500GB SSD as my boot drive, and then the 256GB SSD as a scratch drive for video editing. Do you think this would result in a bottleneck if both SSDs were on the same PCI card?
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
13,048
5,906
Hong Kong
Depends on the situation

From your link.

Specifications :
PCI Express Specification Rev. 2.0
1-Lane (x1) PCI-Express with transfer rate 5Gb/s Full Duplex channel

Which means total 500MB/s (max theoretical speed). Ans since there is 20% overhead, in real world, you may expect around 350MB/s is what you can get for BOTH SSDs in total.

So, IMO, not worth to use this card for performance reason. It's more for "get another two SATA ports".

In fact, when you try to copy files from old SSD to new SSD. The overall available bandwidth will be even lower than you simply install both SSDs into the native SATA ports (250MB/s each).

If I were you, I will simply buy a NVMe as scratch drive. And keep the current SSD as boot drive, and upgrade it to Mojave.

So that no need to buy any expensive adaptor, but you can still enjoy 1500MB/s. 500GB/s NVMe is quite cheap nowadays. Even the cheapest NVMe can still outperform the 500GB 860Evo by at least 100% (sequential speed). And that's base on no extra throttling to the 860Evo. In your case, the NVMe will be 200-300% faster then a 350MB/s limited 860Evo.

If you still prefer 860Evo. Then I will put the current drive into the optical bay, upgrade it to Mojave. Then install the 860Evo onto your current SATA III card. For OS operation, there should be no practical between between SATA II / SATA III. In fact, you can try that yourself. Put your SSD now into the optical bay, and most likely you can't feel the difference in real world usage.
 

Engender

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 6, 2007
46
0
Put your SSD now into the optical bay, and most likely you can't feel the difference in real world usage.
Could you link me something on how I could connect the SDD in the optical bay? Also, what's the advantage over using one of the HDD slots?

Additionally, wouldn't I have to purchase a PCI to NVME adapter, in addition to the NVME drive? Basically, the same thing as my current SSD to PCI adapter?

Very helpful information regarding the dual SSD to PCI adapter. Currently, I get around 330 mb/s read and write with my 850 pro according to Blackmagic.
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
13,048
5,906
Hong Kong
Could you link me something on how I could connect the SDD in the optical bay? Also, what's the advantage over using one of the HDD slots?

Additionally, wouldn't I have to purchase a PCI to NVME adapter, in addition to the NVME drive? Basically, the same thing as my current SSD to PCI adapter?

Very helpful information regarding the dual SSD to PCI adapter. Currently, I get around 330 mb/s read and write with my 850 pro according to Blackmagic.
Simply like this
Optical bay SSD.jpg


The PCIe NVMe adaptor is cheap, very cheap. But still give's you 1500MB/s. Those expensive adaptors will give you 3000MB/s.

For SATA III, those "cheap PCIe card" still cost more than those low cost NVMe adaptor, but stuck at about 350MB/s.
 
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mikas

macrumors regular
Sep 14, 2017
205
78
Finland
To add one more tidbit to the soup:
If you get a x2 AHCI/SATAIII adapter, you can get 500MBps out of it with just one ordinary ssd-drive, which is good enough at it's throughput specs.
For example OWC Accelsior S + Samsung 850 EVO gives continuously approx. 450-500MBps. That was tested right now on Mojave with an old and quite extensively used boot-up disk with trim on. See pics.

ps. accelsior is quite expensive in my opinion comparing to what you achieve with it.
- - Post merged: - -
 

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MIKX

macrumors 65816
Dec 16, 2004
1,315
485
Japan
Could you link me something on how I could connect the SDD in the optical bay? Also, what's the advantage over using one of the HDD slots?

Additionally, wouldn't I have to purchase a PCI to NVME adapter, in addition to the NVME drive? Basically, the same thing as my current SSD to PCI adapter?

Very helpful information regarding the dual SSD to PCI adapter. Currently, I get around 330 mb/s read and write with my 850 pro according to Blackmagic.
As h9826790's photo shows . .. you can remove the DVD /HDD drive cage completely which by the way will help airflow to your PSU !
( NOTE : I too have removed my DVD drive cage and currently have two SanDisk Ultra 3D SSDS installed there.)

You have a total of 6 SATA II connections in your Mac Pro
4 x SATA II in the PCIe bay
2 x SATA II in the DVD drives / PSU bay.

You can buy external USB powered DVD drives quite cheaply now - I use this ASUS DVD drive from Amazon for about US$13
https://www.amazon.com/Asus-External-Slim-Drive-SDRW-08D2S-U/dp/B003YT578O

ASUS External DVD drive.png


For faster data transfers if your cMP's bootrom is 140.0.0.0.0 or better still 144.0.0.0.0
you can BOOT FROM and use a Samsung 970 EVO or 970 Pro M.2 NVMe SSD - put it on a NVME M.2 PCIe adapter and get almost 1,500mb/sec reads and writes.

This is the NVMe M.2 adapter ( M type )

This is my NVMe PCIe adapter - they should be installed in PCIe slot 3 or 4.

You can get these very cheaply

01 OWLtech box.JPG


This is the Samsung 970 EVO 250gb NVMe M.2 ( M type ) SSD.
If you shop around you can get these cheaply too..
This NVMe SSD gets installed onto the adapter shown above with one screw.
Then the NVMe adapter with the NVMe SSD connected to itis installed in PCIe slot 3 or 4.

Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD.png


If you decide to to use this Samsung setup you should first check in " About this Mac and ensure that your bootrom is at least 140.0.0.0.0 - best is 144.0.0.0.0.

There are plenty of knowledgeable members here to help you.
The Samsung 970 EVO speed increase will astound you.

This is a Blackmagic screen dump of my current Samsung NVMe SSD.
970 EVO DiskSpeedTest Oct 13th 2019.png


======================================================

HINT : If you go to your Macrumors member profile you will see " SIGNATURE " in the options.
You can input all your cMP setup information in your " SIG" - that way we won't have to keep
asking you questions abut your setup when you pose a question.

I also recommend that you include your current BOOTROM version in the SIG

As an example, my SIGNATURE is at the bottom of this post
 

Engender

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 6, 2007
46
0
Hey guys,

Thanks for all the information. When h9826790 suggested the NVME drive, I googled around on the topic. Also, I checked my cMP's boot rom version, which is MP51.0085.B00. That's not the same format as the one that MIKX says I need. Could you link me information on getting from my ROM version to the one necessary?

Thanks!
 

Engender

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 6, 2007
46
0
Happy, MIKX?

Okay, I need some help that is kind of off topic. I wanted to get Handoff working on my Mac Pro, so I purchased this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Broadcom-BCM94360CD-802-11ac-mini-PCI-E-WiFi-WLAN-Bluetooth-4-0-Card/392340873992?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649. It arrived today, and I've been reviewing installation instructions. Well, the installation instructions specify that the adapter needs to have a USB_D plus and minus connection, but mine does not appear to have that. I sent a message through eBay to the seller, but I was wondering if you guys know if I'm missing something. The adapter I received looks like this:
IMG_2476.jpg


What I'm missing is the circled item from this image that I got from installation instructions from MacRumors:
IMG_1458.JPG


Did I purchase the wrong thing? Or am I missing something?

Thanks!
 

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tsialex

macrumors 603
Jun 13, 2016
5,664
6,484
Brazil
Happy, MIKX?

Okay, I need some help that is kind of off topic. I wanted to get Handoff working on my Mac Pro, so I purchased this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Broadcom-BCM94360CD-802-11ac-mini-PCI-E-WiFi-WLAN-Bluetooth-4-0-Card/392340873992?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649. It arrived today, and I've been reviewing installation instructions. Well, the installation instructions specify that the adapter needs to have a USB_D plus and minus connection, but mine does not appear to have that. I sent a message through eBay to the seller, but I was wondering if you guys know if I'm missing something. The adapter I received looks like this:
View attachment 878528

What I'm missing is the circled item from this image that I got from installation instructions from MacRumors:
View attachment 878527

Did I purchase the wrong thing? Or am I missing something?

Thanks!
Yes, you bought the wrong adapter.

This adapter is for computers that have the USB2.0 Bluetooth data signals in the connector, like MP3,1. Apple changed for MP4,1 and MP5,1 and route the USB2.0 signals externally, so you need an adapter with USB data signals for BT like the v3.0. Btw, there are better adapters that the one you showed, there is a thread here showing everything you need to buy, use the search.
 

Engender

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 6, 2007
46
0
Yes, you bought the wrong adapter.

This adapter is for computers that have the USB2.0 Bluetooth data signals in the connector, like MP3,1. Apple changed for MP4,1 and MP5,1 and route the USB2.0 signals externally, so you need an adapter with USB data signals for BT like the v3.0. Btw, there are better adapters that the one you showed, there is a thread here showing everything you need to buy, use the search.
That's frustrating. Was I misreading the eBay listing? The seller clearly states that the item that he or she is selling will enable you to use Handoff on a 5,1 Mac Pro. Am I misreading it?

EDIT: But, to clarify, did I get the correct broadcomm unit? So, all I have to purchase is the correct adaptor, right?
 

tsialex

macrumors 603
Jun 13, 2016
5,664
6,484
Brazil
That's frustrating. Was I misreading the eBay listing? The seller clearly states that the item that he or she is selling will enable you to use Handoff on a 5,1 Mac Pro. Am I misreading it?

EDIT: But, to clarify, did I get the correct broadcomm unit? So, all I have to purchase is the correct adaptor, right?
You need the correct adaptor and cable. BCM94360CD works with MP5,1.

This thread has everything you will ever need 802.11ac, BT 4.0 and Continuity & Handoff are working on Mac Pro 2010 (Keep Updating)
 
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Engender

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 6, 2007
46
0
You need the correct adaptor and cable. BCM94360CD works with MP5,1.
Man, you got me with that. Here's what the listing says:
Features:
Mac Pro 2011-2012 (5,1)-2013 – Apple Broadcom BCM94360CD – 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac with Bluetooth 4.0
Native Airdrop Support
Native Handoff Support for OS X Yosemite 10.10 including macOS Mojave
Native Support NO other kext or any patching needed
Support Apple Bluetooth Keyboard, Magic Mouse, Magic Trackpad

Compatible with: mac 2011/2012/2013 model
Card interface: Same as the picture we show you on picture.
 

tsialex

macrumors 603
Jun 13, 2016
5,664
6,484
Brazil
Man, you got me with that. Here's what the listing says:
For a MP5,1 owner, this ad is plain false:

  1. Adapter is the model for MP3,1 and some iMacs that have USB2.0 signals routed to the connector
  2. Patching is necessary, Apple only supports Continuity/Handoff and Watch Unlock with some Mac models, MP5,1 is not one of them. Only AirDrop is native and patching is not needed with a MP5,1.
 

Engender

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 6, 2007
46
0
Apple only supports Continuity/Handoff ... with some Mac models,
Is that the case? I've seen a lot of people say that they've gotten Handoff running on 4,1>5,1. I know that Apple may not support Handoff on a 4,1>5,1, but does that mean that getting Handoff working on my cMP is impossible?
 

tsialex

macrumors 603
Jun 13, 2016
5,664
6,484
Brazil
Is that the case? I've seen a lot of people say that they've gotten Handoff running on 4,1>5,1. I know that Apple may not support Handoff on a 4,1>5,1, but does that mean that getting Handoff working on my cMP is impossible?
Since MP5,1 don't have native support you need to patch the plists or run a tool called CAT to activate it, the thread that I linked has all the info needed.
 

Engender

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 6, 2007
46
0
First you should read the thread that I linked, see everything that are needed. Then you decide if you are gonna get a refund or just buy the correct adapter and cable.
Okay, I cannot find the correct adapter on eBay or Amazon. Any suggestions as to other sources? You've been soooo helpful up to this point.
 

tsialex

macrumors 603
Jun 13, 2016
5,664
6,484
Brazil
Okay, I cannot find the correct adapter on eBay or Amazon. Any suggestions as to other sources? You've been soooo helpful up to this point.
The thread that I linked has several links for auctions of the correct models, go there and try every auction. Btw, do your homework, you are buying into this without the knowledge necessary for make it work.
 

Engender

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 6, 2007
46
0
The thread that I linked has several links for auctions of the correct models, go there and try every auction. Btw, do your homework, you are buying into this without the knowledge necessary for make it work.
Wow, that's great advice! What sources do you think I should use to "do my homework"? A forum like MacRumors, maybe?
 

Engender

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 6, 2007
46
0
Okay, updated to a Broadcom Wifi/Bluetooth model. My cMP recognizes both the Wifi and BT modules, but I'm not able to sense any BT accessories. I went back and re-connected the BT antenna, but it's still not sensing any accessories. Any suggestions?

UPDATE: It looks like it's working, the BT signal is just REALLY weak. If I put my phone underneath the Mac Pro, iStumbler will recognize the BT signal. Does that mean it's a problem with the antenna? I would presume so.
 
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