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jwkay

macrumors regular
Sep 6, 2004
101
12
Bergen, Norway
The new dock *is* starting to grow on me, but I still don't think I can yet stomach that transparency on the menu bar.

Just rewatched some of the keynote, and Steve says the new menu bar "adapts itself" to whatever desktop picture you choose. So, maybe it adapted itself to be semi-transparent for this picture, but will return to a solid fill for a dark desktop picture etc?
 

andrewag

macrumors 6502
Jan 11, 2005
308
0
Australia
The dock looks like they just turned the usual outline in tiger into a rhombus and added a reflection to make it fancy.

The aqua based elements look out of place with the new "unified" look - I bet it will be changed by the time Leopard hits the shelves.

I hope you can make the menu bar solid, I think the translucent bar looks, well, kind of tacky. But I was upset when the ribbed menu was replaced in Jag to Tiger :p
 

zim

macrumors 65816
Jan 5, 2002
1,332
0
The new UI is fine, I like it. People freaked out more when OS X first came to light... remember when they talked about virtual desktops and how the desktop wasn't really a desktop.. I forget the logic or wording but it is interesting that they are working us in that direction, no hard drive icons are visible, I know they can be turned back on, organization of files in the doc... Steve is getting us to see his original view on how the OS should manage us without shoving it in our faces... then again I could be missing something and be way off :D

I also think that the concept of transparencies is related to taking stuff away, attempting to make less.. less is more logic. So the desktop becomes nothing more then a glorified picture screen. Could it be that possibly at some point the UI will go away, leaving nothing, maybe just a doc and finder windows on call of the user? Odd to say or even think but who knows.
 

pilotError

macrumors 68020
Apr 12, 2006
2,237
4
Long Island
I'll reserve judgement until everyone gets back from WWDC and starts using the Beta.

It's pretty obvious from the Developer vidoes that much of the work went on under the hood. I think what your seeing was probably a rush job to silence the critics.

Over the week, there's been a bunch of "Its in there", only to find out a day later that they pulled it. Its pretty obvious they are way behind schedule, most likely due to iPhone, but also the complexity of changes to the core OS.

At this point, I wouldn't expect to see any major interface shifts or functionality until later releases of Leopard. Its already mid-June and they have to finish QA, get the manuals written and go to production with it.

For the $129, the changes in the Core OS (true multi-core support, 64 bit, etc.) are more than worth it for the Intel crowd. I assume that some of the enhancements via threading will also translate well to the PPC folks.

Its the little things (non visual) that are going to define the initial release.
 

zgh1999

macrumors 6502
May 27, 2007
277
0
From the screen shots, the new Dock does look abit odd.

Also, the menu bar looks freakishly like vista.

But I am reserving judgment until I see and try the released version in person.

Maybe I over-expected Apple and Steve Jobs to pull a stunner like the iPhone again this time and ended up being disappointed.
 

Dalriada

macrumors 6502
Aug 26, 2004
277
0
Moorlough Shore
Looking at the heated discussion over the default choice of Leopard's desktop (although remember Steve clearly said that everyone uses their own digital snaps now so the default desktop importance is minimal) I find it so obvious why we have a grass theme. Clearly there are many Mac fans who enjoy Apple's Think Different but I am also sure that a big market share is put off by just that, maybe not understanding fully the joy of Appledom. And so seeing a more familiar desktop may help lure over more potential switchers. Don't get me wrong I much prefer an aqua theme but I find the coincidence too big. My 2 cents.

- Dal
 

EssentialParado

macrumors 65816
Feb 17, 2005
1,162
48
The Finder has had a way to do this since Mac OS 8 (maybe earlier)... command click on the Finder window title...

finder_path.jpg

Wow, that also works in Safari.
 

elppa

macrumors 68040
Nov 26, 2003
3,233
151
There was a similar amount of ho ha when Aqua was first introduced.

Probably a good indication Apple has got most things right and we will be fairly happy once the final version ships.
 

pintweaks

macrumors newbie
Jun 15, 2007
3
0
Just rewatched some of the keynote, and Steve says the new menu bar "adapts itself" to whatever desktop picture you choose. So, maybe it adapted itself to be semi-transparent for this picture, but will return to a solid fill for a dark desktop picture etc?

I'm sure he meant that the menu bar adapts itself because the menu bar is transparent, therefore it takes on the characteristics of the image behind it. The whole point is to extend your desktop image... to uncover it more... and also to prevent burn-in. The glaring white menu bar of old totally burns itself into all our LCD screens, and the semi-transparent menu bar will hopefully put an end to that.

I don't see why everyone is making such a big deal out of the default desktop wallpaper and saying it's reminiscent of Vista. Vista's default wallpaper is some abstract blue/green crap, not grass. Most of Vista's desktops are abstract images.

The only thing I have a problem with is it looks to me they're using the same old scroll bars and progress bars they've used since 10.1. I mean TEN POINT ONE?! Every single other element has changed except those. They're getting pretty dated.

Hopefully some things will change before Leopard ships.
 

Jaylach

macrumors newbie
Jun 15, 2007
3
0
I'm a long time MR reader, but this is my first post :)

I don't know if I like the Leopard UI or not. I haven't decided. I love the idea behind the 3D dock and stacks, I just have to see them up close and personal before I can decide. The transparent menu bar.... it's crap.

But that leads me to my point. Has anyone thought that maybe Jobs is just being a jerk? Poking fun at Microsoft. He's up at the WWDC and we're all expecting great things and he gives us a new transparent menu bar. Maybe it's his way of making fun of Microsoft by saying like "Hey, we promised you a whole new awesome OS and we're giving you a nifty UI change. Isn't this new OS the best thing ever?"

We all know this is something Jobs would do. Would he take it this far and even let his user base he's taking the route of Microsoft and shafting us on good updates, I don't know. There's something inside me that says he would take this big of a step just to take a jab at Microsoft....
 

xUKHCx

Administrator emeritus
Jan 15, 2006
12,583
9
The Kop
You can also add a dedicated path button to all Finder windows by control-clicking on the toolbar and selecting "Customize Toolbar..." like this:

Why it's not on by default, only Apple knows.

I have that tool but it is now where near as useful as a breadcrumb view at the bottom of the window would be. I find it tedious to have to mouse up to the tool and view it in a non useful way. The way i see the breadcrumb idea working is you can drag and drop through the breadcrumb for quick navigation with drag and drop up the folders.
 

snickelfritz

macrumors 65816
Oct 24, 2003
1,109
0
Tucson AZ
I really like the overall iTunes theme. Too bad it's interrupted by the queer system menubar and "3D" dock.

Am I the only one who thinks the dock should have an option to be moved to a layer, similar to Dashboard?
I launch apps very infrequently, so the dock just ends up becoming a frustrating minefield I occasionally run into when working in programs like Freehand that have widgets at the bottom of the window.
Hiding it just exacerbates the problem.

The Apple menu was a good method for launching apps. It stayed out of the way until you needed it, and it's an obvious location for such a function.
(Similar to Windows' "Start" menu; easy for Windows users to learn)

Is Apple ever going to get this right again?
OS9 was pretty good in terms of overall UI design and consistency.
 

whooleytoo

macrumors 604
Aug 2, 2002
6,607
716
Cork, Ireland.
I really like the overall iTunes theme. Too bad it's interrupted by the queer system menubar and "3D" dock.

Am I the only one who thinks the dock should have an option to be moved to a layer, similar to Dashboard?
I launch apps very infrequently, so the dock just ends up becoming a frustrating minefield I occasionally run into when working in programs like Freehand that have widgets at the bottom of the window.
Hiding it just exacerbates the problem.

That's actually not a bad idea. Having the Dock (and possibly other items such as perhaps Activity Monitor etc.) in their own layer; like a HUD that you can bring up on demand. It leaves the 'default layer' clean and uncluttered.

The downsides would be new users wouldn't know where to find the Dock, there would be no mechanism for app notifications (bouncing icon in the Dock), drag 'n' drop onto the Dock would be a bit more complex, etc.
 

whooleytoo

macrumors 604
Aug 2, 2002
6,607
716
Cork, Ireland.
I've actually strted to come around to the new look.
The transparent menu bar was my biggest problem but I agree with the philosphy that it draws more attention to the active window.

How can you not like the new dock? It makes the old one look so outdated without losing any functionality!

This is what I find ironic. They make the menubar more transparent so it doesn't draw attention away from the front window.. good.

.. then they make the Dock 3D, jutting out of the desktop with reflections which draws attention away again!
 

reflex

macrumors 6502a
May 19, 2002
721
0
They make the menubar more transparent so it doesn't draw attention away from the front window.. good.

I keep reading this, but it doesn't make sense to me. The menubar has never distracted me from what I was doing.
 

whooleytoo

macrumors 604
Aug 2, 2002
6,607
716
Cork, Ireland.
I keep reading this, but it doesn't make sense to me. The menubar has never distracted me from what I was doing.

That's 'cause the menu bar keeps distracing yo... hey, are you even listening to me?

:p

It seems to me that Apple is making some poor aesthetic choices when it comes to the design of their UI with the upcoming release of Leopard.

The most glaring to me was the modification of the dock and the introduction of angled/tapered edges. Was this change for the mere sake of change? I see no functional improvement to tapering the edges, and to my eye, the change looks amateur.

Apple's decision to switch Front Row over to the AppleTV interface is also a disappointing change. AppleTV's interface looks like a few Apple designers discovered Photoshop layers and went crazy with poorly implemented transparencies and gradients. I sure hope they didn't use the icons from AppleTV too, because Front Row's original icons are superior.

How about the new transparent dock? I'm worried that, much like Vista, getting the wrong colors behind it will make it look like mush. Things end up looking far busier as weird contrasts form depending on the background.

The new finder uses strangely capitalized letters on the side and odd color choices (much like iTunes). Again, to my eye, the old Finder looks more aesthetically pleasing (whether it is more functional or not is not what I'm discussing in this post).

Also, am I the only one who thinks the new Apple website is tacky? Strange gradients, cluttered elements, my eyes feel visually assaulted after visiting.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts, for whatever they are worth. Just want to know if anyone else feels similar, and I don't mean to come across as elitist.

I agree wholeheartedly. I am worried about Apple's current direction, where style is more important than usability.

The 3D Dock is distracting, the reflections make it more so. Why do away with the border which delineates the Dock? Otherwise, the Dock 'base' serves no purpose, other than being shiny.

Stacks are a nice feature, but I doubt the arc is a good idea, as having the filenames at an angle doesn't aid legibility.

The unified window appearance is functionally flawed too. Where is the visual divide between title bar and the tool bar? You think you don't need one? Well, you can double click on a title bar to minimize a window, but not on the tool bar. How do you know where to click? With the unified window appearance, you guess.

Remember back when the title bar had ridges/undulations (as the drag thumb at the bottom right of OSX windows) to reflect that it's draggable? Why isn't that a good idea now? Not pretty enough?

Considering OSX windows tend to have a lot of title/border space, I'd have thought a dark-ish gray a poor choice of fill colour for such a large area on-screen. Surely a lighter colour, or a soft texture (other than brushed metal) would be more appropriate. Or ideally, just provide themes in the OS and let people choose themselves without resorting to risky 3rd party solutions.

Time Machine (especially the version-control element of it) looks like it could be incredibly useful, but the UI (i.e. the 'black hole' background) is, to me, very tacky.

I actually think Leopard is a very solid, worthwhile update, not that you could tell that with Steve spending the entire keynote pimping "The Shiny". It has so many worthwhile features that he either skimmed over or skipped entirely in lieu of "Woo, reflections!", or "Let's see that again in slo-mo!!!"

:eek:
 

01jamcon

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2006
511
0
London
I am worried about Apple's current direction, where style is more important than usability.

I actually think Leopard is a very solid, worthwhile update, not that you could tell that with Steve spending the entire keynote pimping "The Shiny". It has so many worthwhile features that he either skimmed over or skipped entirely in lieu of "Woo, reflections!", or "Let's see that again in slo-mo!!!"

:eek:

Some excellent points are made in this post. I also agree that style is being favoured over substance, or at least in the case of Steve demo-ing Leopard. It's a real shame that he felt he needed to emphasise so heavily on aesthetic features, which seem to have gathered disliking. While it is a very 'Steve Jobs' thing to focus on style (because lets admit, it is obviously stylish), perhaps we are being harsh on him because of Vista's current focus on style, and therefore see Steve as if he's trying to just do battle with Vista. Whereas, in the past keynotes, such as the intro of Mac OSX, style was such a vital part of the make-up of OSX that it was forgiven for Steve demo-ing and actually perhaps a key attraction to OSX versus the greyness of Windows.

Or maybe we just expected so much more from Apple in terms of actual features, and because they were slightly lacking (it has enough features to actually make me buy it though), we start nit-picking into what Steve chose to focus on.

I hope my post kinda makes sense, and as so many others have said, lets judge the finished article, not some half-baked version where we are limited in what we can see.
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
10,434
12,250
UK
I hope you can make the menu bar solid, I think the translucent bar looks, well, kind of tacky. But I was upset when the ribbed menu was replaced in Jag to Tiger :p

That's because the transparent menubar is kinda tacky ;).
 

Lynxpoint

macrumors regular
Jan 13, 2005
236
184
I would have preferred if Apple introduced the option to have the menubar hide (like in windows or with menufela).
 

jacg

macrumors 6502a
Jan 16, 2003
975
88
UK
Agreed. Finder definitely needs a way of reaching the parent folder besides the column view. They can do it on their website and in the iTunes Store, why not Finder?

Just catching up with this thread so sorry if this has already been said: alt-cmd click the grey button on the top right (to customise) and add the path item to your standard finder toolbar. Or just cmd-click the finder window's proxy icon (the icon in the middle at the top).
 

mhrob

macrumors newbie
May 17, 2004
21
3
Eating the breadcrumbs and having them too...

Works almost anywhere. Command-click the title bar's proxy icon.
 

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eXan

macrumors 601
Jan 10, 2005
4,731
63
Russia
Things I dont like the most about 10.5:

- Grass wallpaper. Definately. The moment I saw it coupled with transparent menu bar I thought of Vista.
- Transparent menu bar. But the more I look at the demos and the screenshots of Leopard, the more I like it.
- no rounded corners on the menu bar. Rounded corners are very Macintosh-ly.
- aTV-like FrontRow. I always though that the Mac version of it was way better.

Things I like the most:
- deeper shadows of active windows. The is really nice. Makes the desktop feel less flat.
- the new Dock. Though, I dont really like that the icons are much farther from the bottom of it, but the glow under open apps is nice.
-
 
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