After the dust settled, what is the consensus about 2016 MBPs?

[ZapNZs]

First: good lord, someone is still using Windows NT 4.0 in 2017! Talking about getting your moneys worth

Yeah...the NT is for a metadata program that was written in-house for a specific organization before they started keeping track of recorded time itself, and it never quite ran as well on anything later & no one ever updated it. This software is older than many of the people who use it, and the original person/people who wrote it probably retired back when Jaz drives were still considered extremely modern. The running joke is that one day they might decide to go all out and have a modern program written for a recent operating system like Windows 98 SE...

Second: when you suspend a vm all the memory contents get written to a file on disk. The application may still hold the memory so it can assign it to other vm's but I'm not entirely certain on that. Hypervisors tend to do their own resource (cpu, memory, etc.) management (they request a certain amount from the OS and manage whatever they are given themselves). If the hypervisor does give it back to the OS it probably is going to stay put until something else requires it.

Pausing a vm is a different thing because it only pauses use of the vm, the resources it uses are not being touched so there is no writing to disk.

Thanks! This is great to know. It also explains why my 2016 seems to load from suspend faster, which I assume is related to the SSD being several times the speed as my 2014, and I now see that the cache size increases upon suspending (which I never looked at before solely in regards to VMs!)

I just did an experiment with this and it appears to release most of the memory with suspend.









What is the purpose of the pause feature over suspend? (I've actually never used pause until I ran this test although I think at times I have incorrectly said "pause" when I was referring to "suspend".) Is this one of those features that was of more significance during the days of internal HDDs when large cached files would take a longer time to transfer from the HDD back into the RAM? (and, consequently, one might wish to hold those VM files in the RAM for faster access?)

 

[dyn]

Apple notebooks do both suspend to disk and suspend to RAM. To wake quickly you need suspend to RAM but it is quite a risk with powerloss because you'll lose data. Suspend to disk is slower but since things are written back to disk it means you won't lose data. By mixing these two you get the best of both worlds: quick wakes without dataloss when the battery dies. Checkout the man page of the pmset tool (this is all on the commandline).

Pausing a vm is simply putting it on hold without having to write back all sorts of data to disk. It comes in handy when you want to pause something for a short moment (you have to go to the bathroom or something) because you can instantly resume. It doesn't work when you actually have to move locations; suspend is better suited for those cases.

 

[The Mercurian]

Apple sold 4.886 million Macs in Q4 2016 and another 5.374 million Macs in Q1 2017. Out of 10.26 million Macs sold in the past 2 quarters, is that fact that there are currently 22 refurbished models for sale really that surprising?

People return computers for all kinds of reasons, some because they had problems, some because due do buyers remorse or because they ordered X spec and decided later they should have ordered Y, such as more RAM or bigger SSD.

Just because an item is being offered as a refurb, doesn't necessarily mean that there was ever actually anything functionally wrong with it in the first place, other than it didn't meet someone's needs for any number of reasons. It isn't necessarily an indicator that this model has been more problematic than past models.

**cough cough**

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/06/mac-pro-may-not-ship-until-2019/

Apparently, the negative response to the MacBookPro with Touch Bar, which many complained was not oriented towards pro users, was a major factor. Apple saw a surge of orders for older MacBook Pros instead of the new model, and that, combined with the reaction to the LG 5K display and the "constant negativity" from professional users, led Apple to "double down on professional users."

I am ready to accept your admission of error.

 

[SDColorado]

**cough cough**

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/06/mac-pro-may-not-ship-until-2019/



I am ready to accept your admission of error.

Admission of error? Those are Apples published sales figures. You found them yourself in an independent search.

Apple never publish sales figures - where did you get those ones from ?

Ok wow I stand corrected. I saw people say that on here before and like a fool just believed it. I found direct link here: http://images.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1FY17DataSummary.pdf

You want an admission of error in anything published, perhaps you need to talk to Apple? Are you skeptical of the figures? Again talk to Apple. You're skeptical of the figures, but NOT skeptical of the "apparent" opinion of a Mac Rumors editor? Alrighty then....

Nothing stated by one Juli Clover, an "Editor at MacRumors, photographer, voracious reader, cinephile, video game enthusiast, and cat owner," has anything to do with that I said in what you quoted above. The "apparently" in the second quote, which you really should properly attribute to Juli, doesn't represent fact. It represents the opinion of Juli and again has nothing to do with the sales figures stated or anything else you quoted from me.

 

[maflynn]

Apparently, the negative response to the MacBookPro with Touch Bar, which many complained was not oriented towards pro users, was a major factor. Apple saw a surge of orders for older MacBook Pros instead of the new model, and that, combined with the reaction to the LG 5K display and the "constant negativity" from professional users, led Apple to "double down on professional users."

I am ready to accept your admission of error.

That's the issue, while Apple did have a better quarter thanks to the 2016 release, it was people buying the 2015 model, and not the 2016 new MBP. While I'm sure many people did opt for the 2016 model, Cook was not all that honest in his remarks about the MBP sales.

I think the high negativity being directed towards the 2016 MBP, many from Apple's most ardent fans, and seeing a run on the 2015 model and not their new baby really threw Apple for a curve. I think they finally realized that you cannot roll out anything, call it magical and people will flock to it.

There's a lot I like about the 2016 MBP, but there's some significant short comings that push that model into the do not buy category. I don't like the keyboard, though I could get use to it. There's lack of magsafe, though I could buy an adapter to make the power cord work little like it. There's no SD port, though I could buy a SD card reader. There's a smaller battery, but many people dispute that's an issue any more (seems some folks still have some issue with the battery so I don't know). I could accept and find work arounds for what I stated, but I'm paying close to 3k and to get a machine that requires that much compromises seems silly, especially when I can get a competing product for 1,000 less and they have most of what Apple is missing.

I've been berated, and my needs have been marginalized and belittled as some member stated that magsafe and the SD slot are not needed, the keyboard is awesome, and how touch bar is the greatest thing since sliced bread. But for me they're important, I use the keyboard all day, I use the SD card all the time, I want the battery to last all day (and I believe it should now, hopefully)

 

[SDColorado]

That's the issue, while Apple did have a better quarter thanks to the 2016 release, it was people buying the 2015 model, and not the 2016 new MBP. While I'm sure many people did opt for the 2016 model, Cook was not all that honest in his remarks about the MBP sales.

I think the high negativity being directed towards the 2016 MBP, many from Apple's most ardent fans, and seeing a run on the 2015 model and not their new baby really threw Apple for a curve. I think they finally realized that you cannot roll out anything, call it magical and people will flock to it.

There's a lot I like about the 2016 MBP, but there's some significant short comings that push that model into the do not buy category. I don't like the keyboard, though I could get use to it. There's lack of magsafe, though I could buy an adapter to make the power cord work little like it. There's no SD port, though I could buy a SD card reader. There's a smaller battery, but many people dispute that's an issue any more (seems some folks still have some issue with the battery so I don't know). I could accept and find work arounds for what I stated, but I'm paying close to 3k and to get a machine that requires that much compromises seems silly, especially when I can get a competing product for 1,000 less and they have most of what Apple is missing.

I've been berated, and my needs have been marginalized and belittled as some member stated that magsafe and the SD slot are not needed, the keyboard is awesome, and how touch bar is the greatest thing since sliced bread. But for me they're important, I use the keyboard all day, I use the SD card all the time, I want the battery to last all day (and I believe it should now, hopefully)

What we don't really know from the sales figures is the breakdown between models and how many of the posted sales were for 2015 vs the 2016 models.

You say "While Apple did have a better quarter, thanks to the 2016 release, it was people buying the 2015 model, and not the 2016 new MBP." Do you have the breakdown of sales of the 2015 and 2016 models during that quarter to support that? I have not seen the breakdown published myself, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Again, you state "seeing a run on the 2015 model and not their new baby really threw Apple for a curve." But again, I haven't seen any breakdown of figures between the two models to know if that is true or not.

Regardless of whether or not it is true, I haven't a clue what Mercurian believes is an error in the figures, published by Apple publically or what any of what Juli published has to do with my comment " is that fact that there are currently 22 refurbished models for sale really that surprising? " admission of error? Error in what? Reporting figures that he himself found while conducting his own search?

 

[maflynn]

What we don't really know from the sales figures is the breakdown between models and how many of the posted sales were for 2015 vs the 2016 models.

I agree, we don't know the breakdown, but the ratio was such that it helped push apple to reach out its customer base, apologize and promise a better product in the future

 

[SDColorado]

I agree, we don't know the breakdown, but the ratio was such that it helped push apple to reach out its customer base, apologize and promise a better product in the future

The only thing I have seen in this regard relates to the MP, which I can't disagree with. I used to love the old cheese grater MP's, but the new one in my humble opinion was an epic failure. I haven't seen any similar admission about the MBP, or have I missed it?

Not that it matters. It still doesn't have anything to do with what I posted in regards to the public sales figures. The "I am ready to accept your admission of error" comment just strikes me as a bit of ****-stirring to keep the thread alive

Edit: No offense to Juli, but I think Jason Snell of MacWorld, did a better job of reporting on the news, sticking with known fact and keeping it on track about the MP, rather than speculation under the guise of "apparently" and going into the MBP. Just my .2

 

[Sanpete]

That's the issue, while Apple did have a better quarter thanks to the 2016 release, it was people buying the 2015 model, and not the 2016 new MBP. While I'm sure many people did opt for the 2016 model, Cook was not all that honest in his remarks about the MBP sales.

Wow. You just made something up and accused someone else of dishonesty based on it. The source you're relying on is anonymous, not even an insider, as far as we know. But you present it as fact, because?

I've been berated, and my needs have been marginalized and belittled as some member stated that magsafe and the SD slot are not needed, the keyboard is awesome, and how touch bar is the greatest thing since sliced bread. But for me they're important, I use the keyboard all day, I use the SD card all the time, I want the battery to last all day (and I believe it should now, hopefully)

I haven't noticed anyone berating you for your personal preferences, only others stating their own. That isn't berating you. Now if you make stuff up, that's another matter.

 

[maflynn]

Wow. You just made something up and accused someone else of dishonesty based on it. The source you're relying on is anonymous, not even an insider, as far as we know. But you present it as fact, because?

I didn't make it up
Link

Apple saw a surge of orders for older MacBook Pros instead of the new model,

Clearly, Cook wanted to put a positive spin on the the Mac sales even though people were buying the 2015 in higher volumes then perhaps they had expected. I understand you'll defend Apple no matter what the facts state, but at this point, I don't see much good from continuing a dialog, its simple that you feel the need to defend apple to the end, and that's fine.

I know many people are happy with their 2016 MBP, but the same can be said about many people being disappointed.

Have a good day, I'd rather not continue on this debate at this point

 

[Sanpete]

I didn't make it up
Link

Clearly, Cook wanted to put a positive spin on the the Mac sales even though people were buying the 2015 in higher volumes then perhaps they had expected. I understand you'll defend Apple no matter what the facts state, but at this point, I don't see much good from continuing a dialog, its simple that you feel the need to defend apple to the end, and that's fine.

You presented as fact an unsourced rumor. That's making something up, namely the implication that it's a fact. Then you accused Cook of dishonesty based on that unsourced rumor. Then you essentially repeated it just now, again as fact. And then to top it off, you accuse me of defying facts.

What's to debate? The facts are as I've just stated them.

 

[SDColorado]

You presented as fact an unsourced rumor. That's making something up, namely the implication that it's a fact. Then you accused Cook of dishonesty based on that unsourced rumor. Then you essentially repeated it just now, again as fact. And then to top it off, you accuse me of defying facts.

What's to debate? The facts are as I've just stated them.

The Macbook Rumors article that makes mention of these sales figures and "alleged" disappointment in the 2016, mirrors the one I mentioned above from Juli Clover. That in turn, did some "borrowing" of information originally posted in a blog from Thom Holwerda who cites "tidbits and nuggets I've picked up regarding the new Mac Pro from people and sources who know their stuff." That's totally credible, right? You know "they" said it, so it must be true. You know "them," the notorious un-named experts. I would love to know Holwerda's sources and see actual data, rather than take his word that "people who know their stuff." said so. Otherwise it is journalist opinion rather than fact.

Thom claims "What made Apple do a 180? Well, after the announcement of the new MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, orders for refurbished "old" MacBook Pros supposedly (emphasis mine) went through the roof, and after the initial batch of reviews came out, they shot up even higher. This response to the new MacBook Pro with Touch Bar took Apple completely by surprise."

But who really knows how accurate Thom really is (he doesn't even know or he would have used a stronger statement than supposedly) and how credible his "people who "supposedly" (emphasis again mine) who know their stuff" really are. But it is Mac Rumors after all .... so fair play