Exactly...I would think when they spend billions to design these planes and millions to purchase each one that they would at least put some shielding to protect the aircraft from an iPhone. It's hard to believe that any phone could be that powerful to impact the aircraft electronics. I know the mfgrs keep trying to cut costs, but for goodness sake..shield the aircraft sensors.
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Airline Industry Remains Divided Over Personal Electronics Usage During Takeoff and Landing
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Exactly...I would think when they spend billions to design these planes and millions to purchase each one that they would at least put some shielding to protect the aircraft from an iPhone. It's hard to believe that any phone could be that powerful to impact the aircraft electronics. I know the mfgrs keep trying to cut costs, but for goodness sake..shield the aircraft sensors.
The armchair engineers are out in full force.
My take: if there is even a suspicion that these devices have an impact, the rule should remain.
In addition, as someone else said, takeoff and landing are crucial times. Keeping people focused should something occur should be priority number one.
My take: if there is even a suspicion that these devices have an impact, the rule should remain.
In addition, as someone else said, takeoff and landing are crucial times. Keeping people focused should something occur should be priority number one.
Do you know how many commercial flights there are every day around the world, and on how few of those people have really turned off all their devices? And there hasn't been that one. At what point are you willing to concede that the evidence is conclusive?
Politics should not determine what the rules are for electronic devices on planes.
Passenger convenience should not determine what the rules are for electronic devices on planes.
Airline preferences should not determine what the rules are for electronic devices on planes.
Scientific analysis should determine what the rules are for electronic devices on planes.
If having cell and/or wifi radios enabled causes interference, require those to be disabled. Or if not, don't. If simply having them powered on causes interference, require them to be off. Or if not, don't. (Those are two separate questions, with I suspect, but would like them to verify different answers.) And if either of these is a problem, then it's way past time to re-engineer those systems on planes to make them resistant to that kind of interference, because electronic devices with radios in them are not going away.
Passenger convenience should not determine what the rules are for electronic devices on planes.
Airline preferences should not determine what the rules are for electronic devices on planes.
Scientific analysis should determine what the rules are for electronic devices on planes.
If having cell and/or wifi radios enabled causes interference, require those to be disabled. Or if not, don't. If simply having them powered on causes interference, require them to be off. Or if not, don't. (Those are two separate questions, with I suspect, but would like them to verify different answers.) And if either of these is a problem, then it's way past time to re-engineer those systems on planes to make them resistant to that kind of interference, because electronic devices with radios in them are not going away.
Not according to testimony I saw in Congress from experts on this sort of thing. Liquid explosives are incredibly unstable and hard to work with and the ban on liquids and gels is an overreaction and pretty much pointless.
Pretty cavalier attitude with the lives of 100+ people who aren't you, wouldn't you say? Personally, I'm not OK with the schmuck in 10D making a decision that could end my life.
What I would like to see is an exhaustive, controlled, scientific study of the potential effects, instead of relying on anecdotal evidence. And until they are 100% certain that electronic devices can't interfere, leave things as they are.
But further to that, what really needs to happen is that flight crews, after asking a passenger to turn off their device for the fourth time should open the door (or return to the gate) and have them escorted off of the plane by armed agents. After a few of those, and the ensuing legal issues around them, peer pressure and common sense may actually take hold.
So, Airplane Mode...then why would we have to turn off e-books? The supposed danger is EMI, not wifi.
I have never completely turend off any of my electronic devices during take-off or landing.
Sure they are on flight mode, but I ain't shutting down iPhone (music) and MacBook (work) just for 5min of ascending/descending.
I do put them in my bag though, I don't want flight attendants getting pissed at me when they still have to serve me food
Sure they are on flight mode, but I ain't shutting down iPhone (music) and MacBook (work) just for 5min of ascending/descending.
I do put them in my bag though, I don't want flight attendants getting pissed at me when they still have to serve me food
I'm an EE as well though not a pilot. However, I stand by the sentiment stated here and elsewhere: If there was the slightest doubt, the slightest shred of evidence, then these devices would be treated like firearms - in checked luggage only.
No, and neither do you.
Once there is an exhaustive, scientific and controlled study that proves it. Not until then do I want you, as an uneducated layman making decisions that could end the lives of me and the other 100+ people on the plane.
Bad analogy. When you're driving a car, your margin of error is FAR lower because you're much, much closer to other traffic than in a plane.
That really only applies to IFR. Any time the weather isn't bad the pilot and copilot will be looking out the window. The fact that they CAN do it without looking out the window doesn't imply for a moment that they won't "just because."
Anyone who has tested them would know. It doesn't take an hour to set an iPad on "Angry Birds" and place it next to a GPS navigation system to see if there will be any impact. You could try it yourself. I bet you dollar there won't be - and that's with a GPS receiver that ISN'T FAA certified even.
1. We know that no one will bring a device like that on board, because it won't have passed FCC Part 15. And, at least ostensibly, no such device is supposed to be available to the public in the United States.
2. If you want to have a rule that says that the Pilot, at their discretion in bad weather, can ask the passengers to discontinue use of all portable electronic devices, I don't think anyone would object. I think what is under discussion is the blanket ban by default.
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As a VERY frequent flier who follows the rules, it is frustrating to see the airlines parrot the "please turn off electronic devices" and then not enforce the rules. It's not my job to point out the 80-90% of people who simply hit the lock button and don't turn off their phones, or the people who surreptitiously use their devices after the flight attendants are strapped in.
And as others have pointed out, there is simply no way to ensure that devices in seatback pockets or carry-on bags are off. And the airlines make essentially no effort to enforce the rules anyway; I have been on flights where people were talking on cell phones during takeoff not 3 rows away from flight attendants.
So, there is really only one answer: design airplane electronics so that a random cell phone won't screw up the compass or communications. I mean, really -- if a single device can cause a problem, then what about flying over a cell tower, even at a height of 10,000 feet?
Like so many things related to aviation, this is a case of airlines and the FAA creating rules for show and then not enforcing them. It's just a waste of time.
And as others have pointed out, there is simply no way to ensure that devices in seatback pockets or carry-on bags are off. And the airlines make essentially no effort to enforce the rules anyway; I have been on flights where people were talking on cell phones during takeoff not 3 rows away from flight attendants.
So, there is really only one answer: design airplane electronics so that a random cell phone won't screw up the compass or communications. I mean, really -- if a single device can cause a problem, then what about flying over a cell tower, even at a height of 10,000 feet?
Like so many things related to aviation, this is a case of airlines and the FAA creating rules for show and then not enforcing them. It's just a waste of time.
If only it were just take off...it's from the moment the cabin doors close and can be quite a while, upwards of an hour. If you fly a lot, you might understand how this is frustrating, being stuck in a seat with nothing to do because you buy books and magazines electronically...or if you actually have work you plan to do on the flight...idiots are those that justify this nonsense. If electronics were that dangerous we wouldn't be allowed to bring them on the plane.
And if you, like some of us "idiots", bothered to read the actual rules around this stuff you'd find that we're allowed to use electric shavers and even hair dryers during take off and landing.
Also, kind of funny that you'd accuse others of self-importance while you call them idiots...
I've never understood the idea that electronics can somehow interfere with an aircraft's ability to take off or land. Putting aside the argument that cell phones emit radiation which interferes with instruments, which is ridiculous, the rule also applies to simple electronics like Gameboys and CD players of years past, which can barely emit sound, much less some kind of interference. You would think that at some point, they could have done a study and conclusively proved that electronic devices interfere with aircraft if it's such a threat to our safety, but I suppose that's hard to do when you can find no evidence. It's uncommon sense to know that there are much stronger signals than what your phone can dish out in the air at all times (radio, tv, satellite, gps, cell towers, etc).
Exactly. The fact is folks is that the research has been carried out, exhaustively, over millions of flights where at least 1/3 of passengers don't turn off their devices, over 20 years or more. You can't get any better research sample than this. To date, has there been ONE accident verified to have been caused by a consumer electronics device?
I work every day with magnetic devices orders of magnitude more sensitive than the compasses used in an airplane. Don't you think we would have noticed by now if an iPhone could disrupt our work?
What bothers me is the physics of the issue. I don't want to get hit with someones iPad flying through the cabin on takeoff...
Considering I fly at least twice a week all year round, and I never, ever actually turn off anything but my cell phone to prevent it from draining the battery...and carry numerous tablets, laptops, and gaming devices on these flights...I must be a huge risk to the safety of the aircraft?
You don't need a degree in electrical engineering to realize that devices with much higher EMI were used in the past on flights and are still allowed to this day.
Or instead
gasp
we could just shield the airplane properly like it should be in the first place. It's not terribly expensive fixes to existing aircraft. It needs to be done anyway because other things outside the plan can have effect.
We all hate the guy who keeps using his cellphone even while we are taking off, because he's giving everybody who obeyed the middle finger. But that doesn't make the rule any less stupid. I don't know anyone except me that actually turns their phones off They just put them in their pocket.
On every single plane probably 80% of the passengers leave their electronics on. Hell some people don't even know how to turn them off!
We all hate the guy who keeps using his cellphone even while we are taking off, because he's giving everybody who obeyed the middle finger. But that doesn't make the rule any less stupid. I don't know anyone except me that actually turns their phones off They just put them in their pocket.
On every single plane probably 80% of the passengers leave their electronics on. Hell some people don't even know how to turn them off!
Let me make this easier for you to understand. Cars don't fall out of the sky and kill 100+ people when something goes wrong.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!
People who bring young kids on flights are the most selfish obnoxious people around.