AirPods Max Market Segment Too Niche to Boost Sales, Say Apple Suppliers

[Mr.PT]

I have the XM3s also. They're good headphones, in fact the best I've ever bought (comfort is unmatched, and they're the only headphones I've owned in years that haven't broken within a year or so!), but they're not perfect. The software is pokey. Some aspects of the UX aren't great (switching between devices. Nearly useless microphone. Stupid touch panel - arrgh!). And mine have developed a somewhat annoying hiss in one side when noise cancelling is on.

They also have that "plasticky" Sony build feel and annoying creak in the headband when they move around.

Some of this stuff might be fixed on the XM4s, but I'm seriously tempted to go for Apple's as my next purchase. The AirPods Max have some clear advantages over the XM4: 9 microphones, surround sound with huge suite of positioning sensors including gyroscope and accelerometer etc. Presumably the sound quality and NC will be at least as good as Sony's, and the software, UX and "build quality" are guaranteed to be significantly better.

The only unknown for me is whether the comfort matches the XM3s when worn for long periods. Weight is a concern. But I'm certainly willing to give Apple's a shot.

For slight cheaper, I suggested you take a look and try also the B&O’s H9: Real good material and construction and very good sound. The kind of built quality I wished Apple went for instead the chosen design...I was looking forward to these, but not anymore, it doesn’t look and I suspect feels like an Apple product. You’re very right to be concerned about weight, it’ll be paramount to longtime use comfort

 

[Precursor]

So. You think they are too expensive and/or you can't afford them so anyone that can afford to buy them is only buying them to impress people they don't like*?

Can you hear yourself?

If you too are buying an Apple product as a "fashion statement" or to look "cool" or "successful" then I stand behind what I said. Apple is a tech company, your "fashion" choices don't change the fact.

 

[Precursor]

We live in a World built on credit(loans, credit cards, payment plans, etc.). Exactly how are people spending consciously?

So

Teenagers are not a market? Where on Earth are you pulling that from? They are just about the best demographic to appeal to because they have next to no responsibilities but are easily influencing by advertising and get money and gifts left and right from their hard working parents and relatives.

And the Apple Watch is most definitely also a fashion statement even if it also offers great functionality. I don’t get why you insist that the two have to be mutually exclusive?

Apple is a Tech Company. Your "fashion" choices doesn't change that. Yes, Apple can make different colors, accessories to appeal to more customers too, that doesn't mean they aimed teenagers to buy them to show "how successful they are in life". What percentage of sold AirPods Max will be bought by parents for their teenage kids as presents? Spending $800 on headphones as a gift, how is that a "market"?

 

[femike]

Take it you’re in Australia too. I agree that $900AUD seems to be way too much. This week Sony was selling refurbished XM3’s for $219...you could literally buy 4 pairs and have a bit of change left over. I get those are an older pair, but they’re still very well regarded and beat the AirPod Max in some areas. You can get the latest XM4’s or Bose 700 on a good day for under half, sometimes close to a third.

Don’t get me wrong, the Max look like a great product, I just think the price is far too “premium” this time around. It’ll be interesting to see how demand runs past the initial release window. Love my AirPods. I also like full sized over ear headphones. My other headphones work well with my iPhone already however and the audio quality on them isn’t bad, so at this price it looks like a very hard sell.

Yes I am. Agree. I have the on-ear Beats Solo Pro, has the H1 chip and transparency mode, and hardware buttons, and good sound, but the ANC is not as good as the Sony XM4/Bose 700.

 

[Precursor]

With all due respect, I’d question how broad your sample is. Also, a big differentiator in the price of Apple Watches is the strap. I’ve got 4 straps that range in price from $50 (included with the watch) to $450. And I’d readily admit the $100 braided loop and $450 space black link bracelet are personal style choices, and I don’t choose these caring a rats ass what anyone else thinks (most people won’t notice or care). I pick them because I like the look and/or feel and they’re beautiful to me.

Having style choices for a tech product doesn't make it primarily a "fashion statement" though (which was my point), that is not what the actual product is aimed for. It is still primarily a tech product.
I have a box full of 50 pairs of Apple Watch bands too, but I keep buying newer Apple Watches because they improve in technology, not because they change in looks (they don't, Apple Watch 1 looks the same as Apple Watch 6).

For the Airpods Max we still don't know how the head piece will hold up, will the mesh part tear over use? lose its elasticity and sag? change color from sweat? Will the headpiece change color from using it as a handle? Will the open sections of the "case" cause scratches/dents on the ear cups? Will the headphones extreme weight cause headache after long use? We don't know yet.
Almost all the people I know won't spend $800 before these are revealed. Their kids will cry to them to buy the headphones for sure. I am an Engineer with 7 digit salary, but I can't justify an hour of my work to look silly in these headphones in public (yet). If they hold up to be durable and better in sound than my Sony and Bose THEN I might consider buying them, but NOT as fashion statement, as a product of function.

 

[vvrinne]

They only "quickly sold out" because they manufactured a small batch of them. It's pure marketing.

Interesting, were you in the meeting this was discussed? Care to illuminate what the batch size was?

 

[Coconut Bean]

Is it a niche segment today? Absolutely. But what I see happening is that Apple entering this segment will take it from being something for a 0.01% market segment to being a 2-5% market segment in within 2 or 3 years, and then owning the majority of this new market. I expect Bose and Sony too to follow with 'higher end' offerings.

Maybe, but question becomes what can Sony and Bose do once they are allowed to spend $200 more on their "top of the line" premium product. Realistically, increase price by $50 and include 100g of "premium metal" and they pretty much match these already.

There will be a revolution at some point, likely from Apple, when ANC takes a generational leap with computational audio, with something like RTX sound from Nvidia.

 

[vvrinne]

Are audiophiles going to be buying Apple? Seriously? There's a reason those top end headphones all have a cable and not bluetooth.

I have a pair of AvantGarde horn speakers in my home that run in the ~12-13k range. I also have Sennheiser HD800s. I have real trouble hearing the difference between compressed and lossless audio, to the point where I've given up on caring and simply use Spotify for everything due to the convenience. When you get into real audiophile territory a lot of what you are hearing is happening inside your own head. I'm not saying that it isn't a real thing you feel, simply that others might not be hearing the same thing and trying to say that you can objectively measure the difference between different things becomes a bit ridiculous. It's like trying to objectively compare expensive wines, it simply isn't possible but it also doesn't mean that you can't get value from buying expensive wine. It is a proven fact that if you know something is expensive your brain can make you appreciate it more.

The horn speakers were a great purchase, but mainly due to them taking a lot of room related issues out of the equasion for me. With a good room (or if I had the ability to do something about it) I could have gotten the same performance for less than half the price.

With headphones you reach the territory of "something is different, but it might be inside my own head" quite rapidly. I have no trouble believing that Apple could compete with my Sennheisers, perhaps I'll still prefer the HD800s for when I just want to listen to music, but most of the time I will probably prefer the convenience of being able to do everything with a single pair rather than switching between the big cans and my airpods for taking calls. And yeah obviously I don't know what they sound like yet, but I have enough trust at Apple to get it right at this price point. If I'm wrong then I just made a bet that cost me a few hundred.

 

[Coconut Bean]

Having style choices for a tech product doesn't make it primarily a "fashion statement" though (which was my point), that is not what the actual product is aimed for. It is still primarily a tech product.
I have a box full of 50 pairs of Apple Watch bands too, but I keep buying newer Apple Watches because they improve in technology, not because they change in looks (they don't, Apple Watch 1 looks the same as Apple Watch 6).

For the Airpods Max we still don't know how the head piece will hold up, will the mesh part tear over use? lose its elasticity and sag? change color from sweat? Will the headpiece change color from using it as a handle? Will the open sections of the "case" cause scratches/dents on the ear cups? Will the headphones extreme weight cause headache after long use? We don't know yet.
Almost all the people I know won't spend $800 before these are revealed. Their kids will cry to them to buy the headphones for sure. I am an Engineer with 7 digit salary, but I can't justify an hour of my work to look silly in these headphones in public (yet). If they hold up to be durable and better in sound than my Sony and Bose THEN I might consider buying them, but NOT as fashion statement, as a product of function.

Just a question. As money doesn't seem to be a constraint for you. What headphones are you using now? $250-$350 Sony, Bose ANC?

Why not something more premium for a multiple of price?

 

[Coconut Bean]

They said the same thing about the iPod, iPhone, AirPods, ......

iPods and Airpods were about convenience, this hardly is

 

[AnthonyHarris]

If you too are buying an Apple product as a "fashion statement" or to look "cool" or "successful" then I stand behind what I said. Apple is a tech company, your "fashion" choices don't change the fact.

I have no intention of justifying my reasoning behind buying Apple products because it has nothing to do with you.

I own several products from Apple. How another person perceives me when they see me with those products is their problem not mine.

 

[deevey]

For slight cheaper, I suggested you take a look and try also the B&O’s H9: Real good material and construction and very good sound. The kind of built quality I wished Apple went for instead the chosen design...I was looking forward to these, but not anymore, it doesn’t look and I suspect feels like an Apple product. You’re very right to be concerned about weight, it’ll be paramount to longtime use comfort

And yet, since you haven't see or heard them in the flesh you nor me have any idea if they are better worse or somewhere in the middle 🤣

iPods and Airpods were about convenience, this hardly is

It is for many people who simply cannot wear in-ear headphones

Yes I am. Agree. I have the on-ear Beats Solo Pro, has the H1 chip and transparency mode, and hardware buttons, and good sound, but the ANC is not as good as the Sony XM4/Bose 700.

These aren't beats solo pro's though so why bother comparing

Apple is a Tech Company. Your "fashion" choices doesn't change that. Yes, Apple can make different colors, accessories to appeal to more customers too, that doesn't mean they aimed teenagers to buy them to show "how successful they are in life". What percentage of sold AirPods Max will be bought by parents for their teenage kids as presents? Spending $800 on headphones as a gift, how is that a "market"?

It was enough of a market to warrant 30+ million (expensive and mediocre) beats headphones sold up to 2018

It's like trying to objectively compare expensive wines, it simply isn't possible but it also doesn't mean that you can't get value from buying expensive wine. It is a proven fact that if you know something is expensive your brain can make you appreciate it more.

Once you drink enough everything tastes great though regardless of the price !

 

[scrapesleon]

Big, heavy, expensive, and lets robbers know exactly who to target. I would rather stick with my airpods. Maybe if future revisions can bring the cost down I might get one for home use only

Damn right definitely ain’t wearing it outside

 

[notabadname]

Are audiophiles going to be buying Apple? Seriously? There's a reason those top end headphones all have a cable and not bluetooth.

Yes. And, that is why I mentioned the wired option; “if you are an audiophile looking for a cutting-edge, cord-free option to your wired gear.”

There is a spectrum of performance across wireless, as there is with wired. The best wireless cannot sound as good as a great wired. But if you care about the quality, and have a need for wireless, then some will still want the best of that technology. Do you believe that audiophiles DON’T ever use wireless headphones?

 

[vvrinne]

Damn right definitely ain’t wearing it outside

Where the hell do you people live that is so full of daylight robbers?

 

[Abazigal]

Damn right definitely ain’t wearing it outside

The funny thing is that more expensive headphones than the AirPods max have existed for a while, and we don’t see news reports of people getting robbed over them.

I remember when the OG AirPods were announced, and we had all these quips of how people would go about just ripping them from other people’s ears, or how they would be dropping out of people’s ears randomly, and it would be easy to scavenge a bunch of them.

Or when the 5s debuted Touch ID and there was all this “hysteria” that people’s fingers would be cut off to unlock their iPhones.

Seriously, what is it with all this doom and gloom? Does the world have something against apple product users or something?

 

[ipponrg]

The funny thing is that more expensive headphones than the AirPods max have existed for a while, and we don’t see news reports of people getting robbed over them.

In NYC, I’ve probably only seen a few more expensive headphones. Most people are not aware of these brands. If theft were to happen, pretty sure people would go after these or Bose or Sony.

That is one of the beauties of using boutique or less mainstream brand products that still perform

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Even with a $70 discount I felt ripped off on the HomePod, and I’m sure these would fill me with even more buyers remorse.

I bet you’re glad you returned that HomePod!

 

[ipponrg]

Are audiophiles going to be buying Apple? Seriously? There's a reason those top end headphones all have a cable and not bluetooth.

As someone who owns a plethora of wire cans (and IEMs) ranging from low end Ultrasones to a little higher end MrSpeakers, I still have some interest in this.

I have been looking for a good Bluetooth over the ear can with a good set of mics for Zoom calls, for work/mobile downtime, and for random headset calls. Here is my current situation

• Work (hear surroundings all the time): Aftershokz Opencomm
• Work (noisy env no ear plugs): Jabra Evolve2 85
• Random headset calls: AirPods Pro
• Gym: AirPods Pro
• Leisure at desk: MrSpeakers EtherCX + THX 789 amp

 

[Maukey]

Not at all. Exclusively comparing to Sony is silly. Buyers also want style. The Sony’s lack that. And the Sony’s are tuned for very colored audio. I’d never listen to them because they don’t sound neutral enough for me.

People don’t compare B and O to Sony for a reason... the same reason comparing the Max to the Sony doesn’t make sense. They aren’t competing for the same customer.

Not true at all.

And the B&O H95 are $800. The market leaders in Wireless ANC headphones are the Sony 1000XM4 and Bose 700/QC35 II. It makes 100% sense to compare any Wireless ANC headphones to those. Believe it or not, there is a Value metric when reviewing headphones and some people want to know what makes a headphone that’s 2 or 3 times the market leader better/worth it if that’s the case. Of course it’s all opinions, and value, style, sound quality is all subjective, but it doesn’t mean there’s not a place for those opinions/comparisons in reviews. It’s not “Silly” in my opinion and I find it useful.

 

[Anson_431]

Just a question. As money doesn't seem to be a constraint for you. What headphones are you using now? $250-$350 Sony, Bose ANC?

Why not something more premium for a multiple of price?

Perhaps because from an audiophile perspective, price is not always the primary concern, particularly when you're puchasing high-end options - you're buying the sound signature and tuning, not just the components/for the design itself.

The difference in sound signature and tuning is also what makes audiophiles, or the IEMs/Headphones segment interesting and fascinating (or at least in my personal perspective). The preference in sound signature could be very different from person to person, and finding out/owning the pair that suits your taste is what's more important than the price tag and design when you're an audiophile.

I'm really curious of the reviews from audiophiles when people starts to get their hands on them haha

 

[citysnaps]

I agree, but wish they had the same attitude about products such as a non-XDR standalone display, wifi routers, etc. There are a lot of products they used to make that weren't even all that niche, and they ditched them.

And those, like the Apple LaserWriter, ImageWriter, and PowerCD, have been commoditized. At one point in time continued production for Apple made no sense.

 

[JOBS-3:16]

This article was brought to you by Captain Obvious. You're welcome!

 

[Sam Squanch]

“No one is going to buy a $500 phone”, ”no one is going to buy a $400 Apple watch”, no one is . . . . .

To Audiophiles, these are not expensive.

Yes.

I read somewhere a while back that Apple purposely makes these niche expensive products to help maintain the Apple quality image. I mean they don't want products to fail but having the reputation that they are a quality brand is important.

I read this around the time that Apple had released the new iMac Pro and everyone was roasting them on the expensive monitor stand and the expensive wheels. In the article the point was made about maintaining Apple's image as well as in the filmmakers' world those prices were reasonable... just jaunt over to Red's website and see what they are charging for handles for their camera's let's just say they make Apple look underpriced.

 

[System Of A Down]

Of course it is - and that's what I love most about these. That the biggest tech company in the world is willing to spend R&D making what is essential a niche device and will generate about 0.0001% of the iPhone income.

Even if I don't want the items, I'm very happy when Apple releases niche devices like the XDR display and to a lesser degree these -- because ultimately it's not making them anymore significant money and they could easily not bother.

annnndd the fanboi timeline where they eventually warm up to the idea of being ripped off by surpar headphones only because it has a Apple logo is right on cue.

-posted from my iPhone 12 Pro Max