AirPods Max Market Segment Too Niche to Boost Sales, Say Apple Suppliers

[deevey]

Therein lies the problem. Apples marketing muscle will cause people to pay 1.5 for a product when something like the Mobius or Drop Panda will outperform them for much less money. If you're an apple investor that's a win. If you're a consumer you may not even realize you just overpaid. I have Panda currently and the Hifiman Deva (a steal for 299) recently and I will be shocked of the Max sound as good as either. I guess you are buying the Apple experience which has value I suppose but for me, sound quality is the most important aspect of any headphone purchase.

We live in a world where the brand you choose is more important that the quality or functionality it provides - but thats true of almost every luxury brand from cars to jeans.

To be fair to Apple, I have not doubt these will sound good or better that the competition and with better integration with the iDevices that one in two people already own.

They'll do it at a price range that's a little higher than their closest (known) brand competitors. e.g. Bose / Sony / Sennheiser / Shure and even their own Beats. I don't think an extra $150 is going to be a hard sell to folk in that market.

Lets face it, Most people will be just using these for watching badly compressed youtube videos, Netflix on the go, zoom calls and Spotify. None of which have a requirement for "high end" audio anyhow.

While it's possible they could be used as professional monitors (with the wire) - it's not really that market.

It'll certainly be interesting to see how the audiophiles feel about the sound once they get their mitts on them.

 

[4487549]

Wish they’d make some niche products like wireless routers. I dunno—maybe an AirPort Max and AirPort Mini?

 

[Populus]

Apple does not break out sales by model (or report sales numbers at all anymore), so I’m curious where you’re getting this information.

Ok, you’re absolutely right, Apple doesn’t specify which models sold more or less for a couple of years, give or take. However, I did see -probably here on MacRumors and other sites- a piece of news citing an unofficial source, reporting the sales of the 4 iPhone 12 models, and the mini was the least sold by far. I’ve been the last 20 minutes trying to find it without any luck, so maybe it was just my imagination, or maybe this info was pulled after publishing it, I don’t know.

However, this wasn’t the point of my comment. Even without this info, the iPhone 12 mini could very well be the least sold (and it is OK, I still like it), and in that case, knowing that Apple doesn’t focus only on the best selling devices is a relief, for us who have less mainstream tastes.

 

[clerkpalmer]

We live in a world where the brand you choose is more important that the quality or functionality it provides - but thats true of almost every luxury brand from cars to jeans.

To be fair to Apple, I have not doubt these will sound good or better that the competition and with better integration with the iDevices that one in two people already own.

They'll do it at a price range that's a little higher than their closest (known) brand competitors. e.g. Bose / Sony / Sennheiser / Shure and even their own Beats. I don't think an extra $150 is going to be a hard sell to folk in that market.

Lets face it, Most people will be just using these for watching badly compressed youtube videos, Netflix on the go, zoom calls and Spotify. None of which have a requirement for "high end" audio anyhow.

While it's possible they could be used as professional monitors (with the wire) - it's not really that market.

It'll certainly be interesting to see how the audiophiles feel about the sound once they get their mitts on them.

True. 500 can get some some serious wireless fidelity. For example, you can pair a Fiio BTR5 for 100 with any semi efficient cans (hifiman sundara for 300?) and get a superb portable solution that uses LDAC instead of AAC and will blow the doors off the Max. I realize Apple probably is not cross selling these to someone looking at a Sundara but they are pricing them like that is their intended market. I would love to be convinced these that there are worth the asking price but until the reviews come in I'm seriously skeptical.

 

[Mcckoe]

True. 500 can get some some serious wireless fidelity. For example, you can pair a Fiio BTR5 for 100 with any semi efficient cans (hifiman sundara for 300?) and get a superb portable solution that uses LDAC instead of AAC and will blow the doors off the Max. I realize Apple probably is not cross selling these to someone looking at a Sundara but they are pricing them like that is their intended market. I would love to be convinced these that there are worth the asking price but until the reviews come in I'm seriously skeptical.

Or insane Home HiFi:

106mm Balanced Planar Headphones For 400

Monolith by Monoprice M1570 Over Ear Open Back Balanced Planar Headphones - Monoprice.com

The Monolith™ M1570 Planar Headphones use a 106mm planar magnetic driver enclosed in a gorgeous, open back housing. It features a plush, padded headband and earpads for com

www.monoprice.com

Dual AKM4493 DACs and Dual AAA-788 Modules Fully Balanced DAC and Amplifier for 400

Products no longer Available

I guess thats 800... you could dress that setup down a bit i guess... but just proving a point as this setup running a DSD128 signal; would be 5 magnitudes over what humans are capable of hearing directly. Or for 550 dollars you can have regular old dynamic headphones from apple.... if money is an issue consider these for 400, almost all the tech, with Planar instead of apple’s dynamic drivers:

Mobius Spatial Audio Gaming Headset

Our Audeze Mobius headphones produce the very definition of audio perfection. To learn more, look through our selection of high-quality headphones.

www.audeze.com

or without the head tracking and spatial audio stuff for 300

Penrose Wireless Gaming Headset

The Audeze Penrose and Penrose X low latency wireless planar magnetic gaming headsets deliver the best in audio quality, broadcast microphone technology, and wireless performance for Xbox and PlayStation consoles, Windows and Macintosh desktops, and mobile devices.

www.audeze.com

 

[isaiahmontoya]

Of course AirPods Max is niche. That’s why now was the best time to announce it—building as much excitement around the product as possible. It should sell well this holiday season. Ultimately Max is for AirPods diehard fans who consider themselves true audiophiles—and the vanity sell, as we’ve seen with AirPods, has a way of exceeding market projections.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Still have to wonder if Apple is encroaching into Beats overear headphones sales, what the future between the two product lines?

At the price, I’m guessing you won’t be much overlap.

 

[carletonguy]

I do not understand the comparisons to Sony, JBL, and Bose. Apple did not release a product to compete at those lower points. Apple released a headphone that competes squarely with Bang and Olufsen and Bowers and Wilkins. The Apple market is more aligned with the Bang and Olufsen market anyway... Design is equal in importance to sound, and sound has to be above average. These go head to head with the B&O H9 or H95, and the B&W PX7. I get that Apple is a bigger, more recognizable company, but the nonsensical comparisons to lower-end headphones with different missions and entirely different market strategies makes no sense. And don’t get me stated on the real audiophile headphones...again, these aren’t designed to compete with those, but at least those comparisons make slightly more sense than cheaper mass-market compares.

What’s even more silly about these comparisons is Apple owns a brand that DOES compete with Sony/Bose/JBL/Etc... BEATS! Beats = mass market. Airpod max = higher end, niche market. Criticize the Max’s if they don’t compete will with the B&O or B&W crowd, but criticizing it for being too expensive compared to Sony makes no sense.

 

[clerkpalmer]

I do not understand the comparisons to Sony, JBL, and Bose. Apple did not release a product to compete at those lower points. Apple released a headphone that competes squarely with Bang and Olufsen and Bowers and Wilkins. The Apple market is more aligned with the Bang and Olufsen market anyway... Design is equal in importance to sound, and sound has to be above average. These go head to head with the B&O H9 or H95, and the B&W PX7. I get that Apple is a bigger, more recognizable company, but the nonsensical comparisons to lower-end headphones with different missions and entirely different market strategies makes no sense. And don’t get me stated on the real audiophile headphones...again, these aren’t designed to compete with those, but at least those comparisons make slightly more sense than cheaper mass-market compares.

What’s even more silly about these comparisons is Apple owns a brand that DOES compete with Sony/Bose/JBL/Etc... BEATS! Beats = mass market. Airpod max = higher end, niche market. Criticize the Max’s if they don’t compete will with the B&O or B&W crowd, but criticizing it for being too expensive compared to Sony makes no sense.

This is a very sensible argument actually. B&O, B&W and M&D are catering to a different crowd although to date most of their audio products aren't really any better than Bose and Sony. They certainly are not audiophile companies - they just pretend to be. If you read reviews of these companies' products, they are often compared to Bose and Sony and often not favorably due to price. So Apple is probably going to be in the same boat.

 

[acblue94]

Big, heavy, expensive, and lets robbers know exactly who to target. I would rather stick with my airpods. Maybe if future revisions can bring the cost down I might get one for home use only

Just because you can't afford them doesn't mean they are expensive. Maybe they are meant to compete with higher end models. And if so, then these are cheap.

Radiance Closed-Back Headphones - Bentley Edition $1,290.00​

Montblanc MB 01 Over-Ear Headphones Black $595.00​

Audeze LCD-X Music Creator Special Planar Magnetic Headphones $1,199.00​

 

[acblue94]

I do not understand the comparisons to Sony, JBL, and Bose. Apple did not release a product to compete at those lower points. Apple released a headphone that competes squarely with Bang and Olufsen and Bowers and Wilkins. The Apple market is more aligned with the Bang and Olufsen market anyway... Design is equal in importance to sound, and sound has to be above average. These go head to head with the B&O H9 or H95, and the B&W PX7. I get that Apple is a bigger, more recognizable company, but the nonsensical comparisons to lower-end headphones with different missions and entirely different market strategies makes no sense. And don’t get me stated on the real audiophile headphones...again, these aren’t designed to compete with those, but at least those comparisons make slightly more sense than cheaper mass-market compares.

What’s even more silly about these comparisons is Apple owns a brand that DOES compete with Sony/Bose/JBL/Etc... BEATS! Beats = mass market. Airpod max = higher end, niche market. Criticize the Max’s if they don’t compete will with the B&O or B&W crowd, but criticizing it for being too expensive compared to Sony makes no sense.

Exactly what i'm saying. What people don't understand is these headphones are actually priced very well when compared to these higher brands.

 

[salamanderjuice]

I do not understand the comparisons to Sony, JBL, and Bose. Apple did not release a product to compete at those lower points. Apple released a headphone that competes squarely with Bang and Olufsen and Bowers and Wilkins. The Apple market is more aligned with the Bang and Olufsen market anyway... Design is equal in importance to sound, and sound has to be above average. These go head to head with the B&O H9 or H95, and the B&W PX7. I get that Apple is a bigger, more recognizable company, but the nonsensical comparisons to lower-end headphones with different missions and entirely different market strategies makes no sense. And don’t get me stated on the real audiophile headphones...again, these aren’t designed to compete with those, but at least those comparisons make slightly more sense than cheaper mass-market compares.

What’s even more silly about these comparisons is Apple owns a brand that DOES compete with Sony/Bose/JBL/Etc... BEATS! Beats = mass market. Airpod max = higher end, niche market. Criticize the Max’s if they don’t compete will with the B&O or B&W crowd, but criticizing it for being too expensive compared to Sony makes no sense.

Because the Sony and Bose have widely been accepted as the best ANC wireless headphones for years?

Apple really doesn't have the "it sounds amazing" cache as B&O or B&W either. Airpods are 99% convience over sound.

 

[Johnny907]

And yet still better than Bose.

Except not. Every reputable reviewer has dinged even the top of the line Beats for overemphasizing bass while delivering weak highs and muddled mids. Bose is overrated as well but in terms of well rounded SQ they have always schooled Beats. They also are a heck of a lot more comfortable to wear for long stints.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Please post a link for iPhone 12 mini sales data. I can't really find the it.

OP is probably talking about the Flurry Analytics data:

iPhone 12 Pro Max Launch Dominates All Apple Devices Over Last Three Years | Flurry

On October 13, 2020, in a highly anticipated launch event, Apple introduced its newest iPhone models, the iPhone 12 series. For the first time ever, Apple launched four devices that differ by size, price and features, including the first ever iPhone 12 mini at 5.4 inches. The devices launched in...

www.flurry.com

or possibly the wave7 interviews. PC Mag did a write up, surprised MR didn’t cover it; maybe they’ll use it tonight or over the weekend 🤷‍♂️

Analyst: Apple iPhone 12 mini Is Not a Big Hit

So it turns out that not many people want smaller phones.

www.pcmag.com

A couple of charts:

 

[DeepIn2U]

I don’t use Apple Music or ITunes , to listen to my music.

What do you use ... Tidal or ?
Also what's the codec you stream or purchase and what's the quality (bitrate & hz) please? I'm still learning about this and from what I see over Bluetooth Sony's LDAC (?) is the best thus far over Bluetooth.

 

[falainber]

Wish they’d make some niche products like wireless routers. I dunno—maybe an AirPort Max and AirPort Mini?

Apple is a consumer electronics company. Routers do not fall into this category.

 

[falainber]

These headphones are clearly a niche product based on the price alone. What I am curious about is how many Apple fans never bothered to buy hi-end headphones before (they existed mode decades) because they never needed them but now all of a sudden realized that they need $500 headphones?

 

[Apple_Robert]

The market is definitely niche. However, I think it is too soon to say (in so many words) the Air Max will be a flop.

 

[dannys1]

Except not. Every reputable reviewer has dinged even the top of the line Beats for overemphasizing bass while delivering weak highs and muddled mids. Bose is overrated as well but in terms of well rounded SQ they have always schooled Beats. They also are a heck of a lot more comfortable to wear for long stints.

To he fair I'd never own Beats over ears, but I did try the Beats Solo3's regardless of what paid reviewers say they're not THAT bad, they were historically notoriously shocking but they've got better. So have Bose to be fair, but it's still a god awful sound signature. But I own Sennheiser HD800s, HD650s, a few headphone amps, Beyerdynamics, NuraPhones, PowerBeats Pro which again, are actually really not that bad (though I bought them to use in the bath) - they probably sound better than my AirPods Pro - my proper IEMs are Sennheiser IE80s and I use them with an AudioQuest DragonFly Red or Cyrus soundKey - and again the PowerBeats Pro aren't miles aware from them even when paired up with a DAC that costs almost as much - the thing is the convience of the H1 chip and the swapping between Apple devices automatically really makes me want to consider the AirPods Max for over the ears even if they don't compete with my HD650's even (which are open back and require an expensive amp to drive them properly anyway!)

 

[dannys1]

The market is definitely niche. However, I think it is too soon to say (in so many words) the Air Max will be a flop.

What does a "flop" entail anyway? What if Apple only planned and wanted to sell 5000 units and they do? I don't think Apple need to have the best selling device in each class just not to be consider a "flop" - I mean if that's the case is the Mac a flop? No...

 

[Apple_Robert]

What does a "flop" entail anyway? What if Apple only planned and wanted to sell 5000 units and they do? I don't think Apple need to have the best selling device in each class just not to be consider a "flop" - I mean if that's the case is the Mac a flop? No...

I can’t say what a flop is for Apple. I was more speaking to the periphery known as MR.

Even if the headphones have outstanding quality, I think the price tag is going to hurt prospective sales. Then again, Apple may not care about that.

 

[deevey]

Or for 550 dollars you can have regular old dynamic headphones from apple....

Firstly, while they might be regular old dynamic headphones, but we do not know what kind of DSP magic is going on inside that may just blow everything else out of the water.

if money is an issue consider these for 400, almost all the tech, with Planar instead of apple’s dynamic drivers:

Mobius Spatial Audio Gaming Headset

Our Audeze Mobius headphones produce the very definition of audio perfection. To learn more, look through our selection of high-quality headphones.

www.audeze.com

or without the head tracking and spatial audio stuff for 300

Penrose Wireless Gaming Headset

The Audeze Penrose and Penrose X low latency wireless planar magnetic gaming headsets deliver the best in audio quality, broadcast microphone technology, and wireless performance for Xbox and PlayStation consoles, Windows and Macintosh desktops, and mobile devices.

www.audeze.com

Nice enough kit - but only people "into" wireless audio would know / care about them. (I'm into decent headphones but I've never heard of them until you posted). Honestly, they aren't really competing in the same category as AirPods Max.

Theres also no ANC which is a HUGE selling point on any wireless cans these days and something that I expect Apple have managed to do very well.

If the M1 release is anything to go by, until there is some real in-depth reviews we should keep an open mind.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

"Transparency mode". Nothing is cut off. You hear all your surroundings. Good at work as well. And I absolutely hate sticking anything into my ears.

I know they have the transparency mode feature but I still wouldn’t do it because you are still not hearing 100% of your surroundings, it feeds it in combined with your music still.

Personal preference at the end of the day, but I’ve seen people walking at night alone with big headphones on and I’m thinking I could walk up behind you with a hammer and you wouldn’t know.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I did try the Beats Solo3's regardless of what paid reviewers say they're not THAT bad

I got a pair for a really good price such that, even if they were horrible, it’d still be no big loss. I’ve heard horrible, before, the Beats weren’t. So, I figure there’s some sort of audiophilic rite-of-passage whereby you have to hate on Beats to join the club. I, meanwhile, bought a newer pair with H1 automatic switching and never looked back. Until the non-replaceable ear cups degraded. I may be in the market for a new pair

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I know they have the transparency mode feature but I still wouldn’t do it because you are still not hearing 100% of your surroundings, it feeds it in combined with your music still.

The transparency mode on the Apple headphones that have it is exceedingly good. By definition, it’s not 100%, but it’s enough 9’s after the decimal point to be good enough. Unfortunately for others, they THINK that because they’re in, I can’t hear them and I’m willing to let them continue to think that, but I can hear just as well as when they’re off.

I think I “got it” when I realized that the microphones they use must be scary good to be able to replicate pretty much everything I’m hearing around me. And, since your ear canal is still blocked from the external pressure, I’ve used them at loud sporting events (from a loooong time ago) so I can still hear the crowd, and the folks sitting next to me without having to insert and remove ear protection continuously.