AirPods Max to Gain Lossless Audio and Low-Latency Audio in iOS 18.4

[PotentPeas]

The RC for 18.4 is out. Downloading now. Will see if this works or if we need to have a firmware update for the AirPods as well

I was just going to mention this. I would imagine that the AirPods Max needs a firmware update itself, but maybe it will be delivered after iOS 18.4 is installed. (Apple doesn't have a way for you to force AirPods firmware to update immediately... I think their suggestion is "plug it in to charge and wait at least 30 minutes".)

 

[DaniTheFox]

The plug not being TRRS only means it cannot use those "combo" jack that was on older iPhones and Macs. It may still be able to route to an actual line level / mic level stereo input.

That new 3.5mm to type-C cable product page already says the cable is bi-directional, meaning it can do the above. But it is unclear if the AirPods Max itself can do that. But yea if it does, it means you can only chose either input or output, not both at the same time.

Indeed, this adapter is designed to assist you in connecting your iPhone to the auxiliary input of a (car) stereo system.

 

[DaniTheFox]

I really have to ask: does this lossless playback also apply to any headphone connected to the USB Type C port, or is it an AirPods Max exclusive due to the decoding on the headphone itself?

Yes. The Beats Solo 4, Studio Pro, newer B&W, T+A etc. have this since a couple of years.

 

[PotentPeas]

The plug not being TRRS only means it cannot use those "combo" jack that was on older iPhones and Macs. It may still be able to route to an actual line level / mic level stereo input.

That new 3.5mm to type-C cable product page already says the cable is bi-directional, meaning it can do the above. But it is unclear if the AirPods Max itself can do that. But yea if it does, it means you can only chose either input or output, not both at the same time.

They seem to be supporting a more robust connection to AirPods Max than "simple audio" if you plug them in via USB-C. (The press release mentioned that spatial audio with head tracking is available this way.) Maybe they'll send the mic data back through the USB connection, too ....?

 

[derbyshire2013]

Can anyone clarify....

- If we were to connect APMs to a recent iPhone (15 Pro onwards), does the iPhone have a suitable internal DAC or does it not require one for Lossless? I know all of the recent Apple silicon macs have an internal DAC.

- To connect to an iPhone, will a suitable USB-C to USB-C cable be enough or will it need to be a 3.5mm -> USB-C cable?

This article (from What HiFi) mentions iPhone 15 Pro having an internal 24/48 DAC:

The iPhone 15 has USB-C, but is it the hi-res audio upgrade we've all been waiting for?

Fewer blocks to better audio, potentially...

www.whathifi.com

I have the Beats Solo 4/Studio Pro myself, rather than AirPods Max, and I can't tell the difference between the included USB-C to USB-C cable provided in the box from a £10 one I purchased from a supermarket once when playing back Lossless Audio.

 

[Chancha]

They seem to be supporting a more robust connection to AirPods Max than "simple audio" if you plug them in via USB-C. (The press release mentioned that spatial audio with head tracking is available this way.) Maybe they'll send the mic data back through the USB connection, too ....?

For a C to C connection, I imagine both the headphone and the mic will appear as separate USB audio devices. In fact even with a Lightning iPhone, you already could do that when plugging it to a Mac, the mic and speakers show as discrete audio devices in AudioMIDI.

As for the spatial audio stuff I imagine that must require a digital input to the AirPods, so only with C to C and wireless.

 

[rumz]

I see (kind of). So it's really dependent on the DAC on the USB Type C port headphone?

I still think Apple is looking at using UWB to transmit Apple Lossless to a wireless headphone, given UWB's much wider data bandwidth than even Bluetooth 6.0.

This is probably an over-simplification, but basically the only DAC that matters here is the one in the AirPods Max. Whatever USB-C source only needs to send 1's and 0's.

I mean, the little lightning > 3.5mm and usb-c > 3.5mm adapters Apple makes (that allow you to connect wired analog headphones that just have a 3.5mm plug to your iPhone) have little DACs built into them. I think the only hardware DAC on your iPhone probably deals just with playing sound through the phone's speakers.

I bought a pair of B&O H95s a couple months before Apple announced the original AirPods Max in 2020, and they've always been able to do "lossless" via USB-C > USB-C cable, whether from a computer or from my USB-C iPad Pro. They have a similar design where all the processing of the audio is done on the headphones themselves. No need for any kind of DAC in between.

 

[rumz]

Because the lightning AirPods Max already offer close to lossless, but they can’t claim it does due to the signal conversion from digital to analog, which results in some data loss. With USB-C, this conversion doesn’t happen if I’m understanding it properly. I don’t believe it’s possible with lightning.

I don't know that there's a technical limitation that it can't be done with lightning. I think it's just not worth the effort for Apple. iPhone still used lightning ports when the Max first came out-- you'd basically need a lightning > lightning cable, I just can't imagine Apple wanting to provide that solution. Too niche. (They also weren't offering lossless / higher res music on Apple Music yet at that point).

The cable they made for 3.5mm > lightning for the Max was to allow it to connect to other devices (the oft cited Airplane use case); not as much for any kind of "near lossless" goal, I'm sure. That cable converted an analog signal to digital for the Max to process, which means the lightning port on the Max isn't just a dumb charging port, it can actually receive data and send it through the audio path of the headphones.

I'm baffled by the lack of H2 in the most recent Max update though. So odd.

 

[poofdadz]

In my head: I wouldn't even hear the difference. Right? I don't even really care. It's fine.
~first gen owner

You wouldn’t hear the difference either if you owned the second gen.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

What about getting Lossless Audio using the USB-C to Lightning Cable that comes with it already?

 

[neotint]

Wired headphones with an external DAC are still better. With a DAC you can choose from many audiophile headphones. E.g. I use an ifi Go soundbar, with 2 different headphones: closed AKG studio monitors, and open Sennheisers. With AirPods Max requiring a cable for lossless and limited to 48khz (even tho' Apple Music offers higher res audio) I don't see them speaking to audiophile users; this update is targeted at sound editing for prosumers and those who are into spatial audio (more VR gimmicks).

I get that Apple doesn't make professional audio gear or audiophile gear, that's too niche for Big Tech. When it comes to audio, Apple is a mid-level consumer brand for audio, like Bose. e.g. Sony earbuds are still way better than AirPod Pros even. Apple is not focused on critical listening, professional or otherwise.

 

[MrRom92]

48khz is an interesting and rather unoptimal choice. Most available high res content will have to be downsampled (using which algorithm?) to half or even a quarter of the native sampling rate. The vast majority of music will have to be upsampled from 44.1khz (again, in real time and using which methods?) 48khz is not completely unused for recordings these days but it is probably the LEAST common sampling rate for many recordings, so almost nothing will play natively without additional processing.

 

[dannys1]

While that might be true due to poor hearing of MacRumors posters, it is not really true that people cannot 'detect' a difference.

Music is more than a set of sounds. 'Tell' means to be able to identify one source from the other, 'detect' means to be able to notice a difference.

These are not the same if you have really good ears, for example, perfect pitch, or experience with live never digital versus recorded music.

Or put it another way - the best ears in the industry have never been able to tell the difference vs a very high quality lossy codec and a lossless one - on equipment far better than Apple's AirPods Max.

 

[dannys1]

I possess both a Beats Solo 4 and some B&W headphones with this feature . I can assure you that you would also hear the difference . It is quite evident.

I can assure you, you don't - you THINK you do, but it is not "quite evident" at all. The best ears in the industry have never been able to do it on mastering equipment worth £100,000 never mind your mid range consumer head phones.

I've a £5000 headphone, AMP and DAC setup and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

 

[ThomasPicard]

Thats great, so I have to get 39$ cable to my already 550$ headphones, and say bye to wireless to make this work.

No - you don't have to get the 39$ cable - only if you want 3,5mm

Otherwise EVERY (not crap) USB-C cable will work - they added USB-C-audio - lossless - with low latency..

 

[dannys1]

48khz is an interesting and rather unoptimal choice. Most available high res content will have to be downsampled (using which algorithm?) to half or even a quarter of the native sampling rate. The vast majority of music will have to be upsampled from 44.1khz (again, in real time and using which methods?) 48khz is not completely unused for recordings these days but it is probably the LEAST common sampling rate for many recordings, so almost nothing will play natively without additional processing.

It won't make any difference - you can export the same file in 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88 kHz, 96 kHz, and they'll all null perfectly with each other for our audible hearing range.

High-resolution audio is nonsense anyway; it's not needed for playback. 48 kHz is really the absolute perfect range in that it's well above what any human ear can hear. The benefit of high-resolution audio in recording and processing audio is that it avoids anti-aliasing with digital processing, which can fold back into the audible spectrum. In reality, this has been happening for about 30 years of digital audio, and no one really cares or notices.

Most electronic music is done at 44.1 or 48 kHz, and we use oversampling in plugins to increase the sample rate to 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x, etc. Again, the algorithm to do this introduces no change to the audio but always things especially like colour and saturation to not fold back into the audible spectrum.

 

[PotentPeas]

Updated to macOS 15.4 (RC) and I don't seem to be able to get audio input to the headphones over USB-C connected to my MacBook Pro. A firmware update for the AirPods Max is likely required. I'll plug them in to charge for a while and see if they update... but Apple might not have published the update just yet.

I ordered the 3.5mm/USB-C audio cable from Apple but it looks like it won't be available until Thursday.

Quick impressions, since I just got these AirPods Max today...
The latency over Bluetooth is actually quite good, I can't detect any using the Twitch latency test video or when gaming. (My experience using Microsoft Surface Headphones 2 was an obvious 1/4 - 1/3 second latency when using them over Bluetooth.) So, maybe this is a non-issue for me.

Another thing. Using the AirPods Max with a USB-C cable plugged in... you can really "hear" the cable in the right earcup if anything touches the cable or brushes along it. That could be moving your fingers along the cable, or just having it brush on your shoulder if you turn your head. I tried a few different cables and they are all like this. I do *not* experience this to nearly the same degree with my Sony XM4 headphones with a 3.5mm cable connected.

 

[dtuck90]

I can confirm that with 18.4 RC on iPhone 16 pro wired connection isn’t working yet. Guessing there will be an update for the AirPods imminently.

 

[DaniTheFox]

Another thing. Using the AirPods Max with a USB-C cable plugged in... you can really "hear" the cable in the right earcup if anything touches the cable or brushes along it. That could be moving your fingers along the cable, or just having it brush on your shoulder if you turn your head. I tried a few different cables and they are all like this. I do *not* experience this to nearly the same degree with my Sony XM4 headphones with a 3.5mm cable connected.

Indeed, this braided cable has become a disadvantage. I possess a Special Audio Cable from AudioQuest. Perhaps we should consider purchasing a USB-C cable with the same build. The cable that comes with the Beats Solo 4 is quite satisfactory.

 

[vinsalducci]

This functionality works with the latest Beats Studio Pro. It’s cool, and I’ve used it maybe twice. Not a game changer.

 

[CalMin]

I have lossless headphones, and I can certainly hear the difference, especially for classical music. Huge difference for me. I'm sure use cases vary. For instance, I cannot for the life of me see any difference with promotion and couldn't care less about it, but some people do. I don't discount their ability to do so.

Fair point. I was responding to another comment and wasn't suggesting that lossless is useless, just that I personally can't tell anymore.

 

[PotentPeas]

Indeed, this braided cable has become a disadvantage. I possess a Special Audio Cable from AudioQuest. Perhaps we should consider purchasing a USB-C cable with the same build. The cable that comes with the Beats Solo 4 is quite satisfactory.

I tried it with a non-braided cable (plain "rubber sheath") and experienced the same thing. I'm not familiar with the AudioQuest cable, I'll look into that.

 

[newton4000]

Wired headphones with an external DAC are still better. With a DAC you can choose from many audiophile headphones. E.g. I use an ifi Go soundbar, with 2 different headphones: closed AKG studio monitors, and open Sennheisers. With AirPods Max requiring a cable for lossless and limited to 48khz (even tho' Apple Music offers higher res audio) I don't see them speaking to audiophile users; this update is targeted at sound editing for prosumers and those who are into spatial audio (more VR gimmicks).

I get that Apple doesn't make professional audio gear or audiophile gear, that's too niche for Big Tech. When it comes to audio, Apple is a mid-level consumer brand for audio, like Bose. e.g. Sony earbuds are still way better than AirPod Pros even. Apple is not focused on critical listening, professional or otherwise.

True - but could these connect to a DAC with a USB-C out?

 

[newton4000]

Or put it another way - the best ears in the industry have never been able to tell the difference vs a very high quality lossy codec and a lossless one - on equipment far better than Apple's AirPods Max.

false

 

[JM]

Well that's a huge slap in the face for first gen owners.

Even worse is that didn’t lightning USED to have lossless through wired connection, but they removed it when usb-C came out?
Nevermind. I read the other article