Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

AirPods Max Won't Directly Support Lossless Apple Music Over Lightning

I don't know why MacRumors and Apple are saying this.

There will still be a BIG improvement.

Right now you are taking a 256 AAC file and compressing it a SECOND time at 256 AAC to send to your ears. You are taking a lossy format, and applying a lossy format again!

With lossless, you will have the original file on your phone, and only then will it get converted to 256 AAC when it gets sent tp your ears.

It will still be a big improvement. Why are folks so confused by this?
 
Last edited:
  • Disagree
  • Like
Reactions: freedomlinux, decypher44, AOLG and 3 others
oddgit said:
The issue with the Air Pod Max is that they have their own DAC that may not support the full decoder range.
Click to expand...
Apple's leadership knows the roadmap of their products and services well in advance. That sound like lack of foresight on their part.
 
  • Like
Reactions: decypher44
Apple's high end earphones aimed at audiophiles don't support it wired? Bizarre. And the response that "People won't really notice the difference anyway" doesn't really cut it does it? So the $19 Earbuds are Apple's solution to listening to lossless with headphones!! LOL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos and sanichor
anshuvorty said:
How do you suppose we do that if the 3.5mm to Lightning cable that Apple advertises doesn't allow for lossless audio?
Click to expand...

The headphones aren't equipped to take a digital stream over cable and decode it. However they still support an *analog* connection over cable, the same way all wired headphones have for decades. The way all the highest-end headphones still do. There always has to be a DAC to decode digital audio for it to play. Even if the APM could decode a digital stream sent via cable, there's no way it's internal DAC would compete with a quality external DAC.

If you want to listen to and appreciate lossless audio, you should have a set up that looks something like this:

📱💻 Audio Source

⬇️ DIGITAL Connection

🎛 High Quality DAC

⬇️ ANALOG Connection

🎧🔊 Headphones or Speakers


If you don't already know this, then lossless audio probably isn't for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: snipr125, R88D, sean+mac and 6 others
powerbook911 said:
I don't know why MacRumors and Apple are saying this.

There will still be a BIG improvement.

Right now you are taking a 256 AAC file and compressing it a SECOND time at 256 AAC to send to your ears. You are taking a lossy format, and applying a lossy format again!

With lossless, you will have the original file on your phone, and only then will it get converted to 256 AAC when it gets sent do your ears.

It will still be a big improvement. Why are folks so confused by this?
Click to expand...
The 256 AAC is not re-compressed again when using iOS device and AirPods and no, this is NO big improvement – I'm betting my house that your ears won't pass a real blind test between 256AAC and lossless.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: AOLG
Before posting you should ask yourself a simple question:

Where is the chain is the DAC and what does it support?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ErikGrim
This was so obvious.... there is no bluetooth codec that truly supports lossless.

Lossless audio is essentially an ipad / mac feature since it has usb-c.

Perhaps this will mean iphone will include usb-c?
 
  • Like
  • Disagree
Reactions: decypher44 and Cashmonee
powerbook911 said:
I don't know why MacRumors and Apple are saying this.

There will still be a BIG improvement.

Right now you are taking a 256 AAC file and compressing it a SECOND time at 256 AAC to send to your ears. You are taking a lossy format, and applying a lossy format again!

With lossless, you will have the original file on your phone, and only then will it get converted to 256 AAC when it gets sent do your ears.

It will still be a big improvement. Why are folks so confused by this?
Click to expand...
AAC compression is lossy, but it's very good at what it does and a single compression gets the file to its minimal size at 256 kbps with as little quality loss as possible with the most unnecessary bits removed as a priority.

Compressing a 256 AAC file again into another 256 AAC file will yield essentially the exact same file, same quality, as there are no more redundancies to remove to achieve the exact same 256kbps due to them being removed in the first compression.
 
lars666 said:
The 256 AAC is not re-compressed again when using iOS device and AirPods and no, this is NO big improvement – I'm betting my house that you won't pass a scientific blind test between 256AAC and lossless.
Click to expand...

This is not true. It is re-compressed today with Apple Music and AirPods. Some of the wording led to the confusion you stated, and I believed the same thing for some time too, but it is actually compressed when sent to your ears.

The AirPods receive a mix audio from your phone, for email alerts, etc. it is not playing the original song file in your ears, or you wouldn't hear your alerts and everything else. That is why Tidal, Amazon Music HD sound so much better with AirPods.

Furthermore, it's more like 250 AAC sent to your ears, it's not quite 256.
 
WhoDaKat said:
Apple has confirmed that lossless audio can be listened to on an iPhone, iPad, Mac, or Apple TV, but the higher quality audio is not available on AirPods, AirPods Pro, or AirPods Max.

You have to be f’ing kidding me. My $600 headphones don’t support, even wired? They just freaking released them! Who on gods earth are they bringing lossless to Apple Music for? For all the people that don’t buy their products? They sell speakers and headphone, and none of them support lossless? That makes zero sense. This surely has to be a mistake.
Click to expand...
Sir, with all due respect, you chose to purchase $600 headphones with a lightning port.

Not an audio jack, not USB-C, a frikin lightning port.

That should have been the first sign that these were going to be kiddie headphones.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: freedomlinux, Alfredo_Delgado, snipr125 and 4 others
It is weird that the lossless story here completely ignores every single audio hardware product Apple has released lately, including the supposedly high end AirPod Max. One would think the work put into the proprietary real time wireless codec used to connect the Apple TV and the HomePods could have been leveraged for high bitrate wireless music playback for AirPods and HomePods alike.

Best case I can come up with is this is a chicken and egg situation, where we'll see hardware support later on once there's a demand for it. Damn shame Match and purchases are exempt too. The venn diagram between people who care about lossless/high res and people who like to own their music should be damn near a circle.

Repost from the other thread since there are so many disparate threads discussing this
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos and tkermit
WhoDaKat said:
Apple has confirmed that lossless audio can be listened to on an iPhone, iPad, Mac, or Apple TV, but the higher quality audio is not available on AirPods, AirPods Pro, or AirPods Max.

You have to be f’ing kidding me. My $600 headphones don’t support, even wired? They just freaking released them! Who on gods earth are they bringing lossless to Apple Music for? For all the people that don’t buy their products? They sell speakers and headphone, and none of them support lossless? That makes zero sense. This surely has to be a mistake.
Click to expand...

The stupid part is had they never said anything at all, nobody would know. It is just because somebody had to scratch their audiophile itch & ask Apple. Apple being true to their word had to tell the truth when asked an honest question.

My thoughts are that have you have to be ***** kidding me that a bunch of people HAPPILY bought the product not KNOWING the true specs of the product, & are NOW upset that the specs are not exactly everything they always imagined in their perfect little world of make-believe. End of the day, if this was so IMPORTANT then you would not have bought the product until you CONFIRMED this feature (Oh and guess what? That responsibility falls on YOU, the consumer).

Fact is the real audiophiles are laughing, I bet they are all saying "yeah I know. thats why i didnt buy these". Everyone else who is complaining is just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Not an apple apologist. Im just saying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ipponrg, haruhiko and TheSynchronizer
If you are returning the expensive AirpodsMax because of this announcement, let's tell Apple this is the reason for the return.
 
ErikGrim said:
It is weird that the lossless story here completely ignores every single audio hardware product Apple has released lately, including the supposedly high end AirPod Max. One would think the work put into the proprietary real time wireless codec used to connect the Apple TV and the HomePods could have been leveraged for high bitrate wireless music playback for AirPods and HomePods alike.
Click to expand...
The Apple TV uses Airplay over Wifi to stream to a Homepod. But Wifi isn't suitable for tiny wireless headphones like the Airpods because it uses significantly more energy than Bluetooth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos
ipponrg said:
This sounds like more of a technical limitation on Apple's part:

"Apple's AirPods Max headphones are equipped with a Lightning port, but it is limited to analog output sources and will not natively support digital audio formats in wired mode. Apple has not yet said whether the AirPods Max support lossless audio over Lightning with a digital to analog converter."

Don't worry, there will probably be another dongle for your dangle
Click to expand...
I already have enough dongles for my dangle. It's odd that they wouldn't make the lightning connectivity the same as literally every other device they have.

Still looking forward to this though.
 
Funny so WH1000XM4 support lossless when wired, but Apple's own product won't? Wow, but then the Sonys won't support Spatial audio - good god! You actually need multiple products to enjoy all the features.
 
  • Like
Reactions: airbusking and decypher44
Sounds like Apple really messed up here. There is an expectation (warranted or not) that Apple services and hardware should just work together with no fuss. Or there's AirPod Max Pro's in the works that can take full advantage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: airbusking and sean+mac
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back