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AirTag Anti-Stalking Measures 'Just Aren't Sufficient' Says Washington Post Report

jamface said:
So I go to my garage in the morning, find the door bust open and my motorbike is no longer there. I go back inside the house, feeling despondent and angry. My wife says what’s wrong?! I say I seem to have lost my motorbike. She says you lost it? What do you mean you lost it? I watched you put it in the garage. I say yeah I did. But now it’s lost. The door was all bust open and- she says what?! The door? You mean it was stolen?! Somebody stole it? I say yeah it was stolen, I guess. And now I’ve lost it. She says lost it wtf? Some acehole has stolen it. Right. I’m calling the police. good thing you put that airbag on it...
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Yeah, motorbikes are large, so if one disappears then obviously it was stolen.

But now imagine it's your wallet—that seems like a very reasonable use case for an AirTag. Your wallet could be between the couch cushions, but it could have been taken by the housekeeper. Maybe it was between the couch cushions but the housekeeper found and took it. All you know is that it's lost.
 
dk001 said:
Well done test of this device from a possible stalking perspective.
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I think a REAL well done test would be tracking someone who doesn’t know and doesn’t want to be tracked. All of these examples with (I was tracking someone who knew I wanted to track them and they were TOTALLY fine with it miss the point :)
 
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cmaier said:
It’s easy to muffle while pressing the top! (Um, who is pressing the top to muffle the sound while this attempted stalking is happening. I am very confused)
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A vice, pressure pliers, a spring clamp? Use your imagination...
 
Unregistered 4U said:
I think a REAL well done test would be tracking someone who doesn’t know and doesn’t want to be tracked. All of these examples with (I was tracking someone who knew I wanted to track them and they were TOTALLY fine with it miss the point :)
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There are exactly zero ways to ethically do this. And few legal ways, for that matter.
 
Wowfunhappy said:
There are exactly zero ways to ethically do this. And few legal ways, for that matter.
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I know, and the folks making the videos do, too. :) The main point is, before this does ANY tracking, you’ve got to get an object that’s approximately 1.25 inches wide and over a quarter of an inch thick attached to someone OR in their possession in a way that they won’t find it.

If these people weren’t willingly being tracked, I doubt they’d ever get to the point where they find out what happens 3 days later. Plop down your backpack to pull out your headphones, “What the hell is this?” Google it, use your phone to reset it, now you’ve got a free toy OR just smash it.
 
Unregistered 4U said:
I know, and the folks making the videos do, too. :) The main point is, before this does ANY tracking, you’ve got to get an object that’s approximately 1.25 inches wide and over a quarter of an inch thick attached to someone OR in their possession in a way that they won’t find it.

If these people weren’t willingly being tracked, I doubt they’d ever get to the point where they find out what happens 3 days later. Plop down your backpack to pull out your headphones, “What the hell is this?” Google it, use your phone to reset it, now you’ve got a free toy OR just smash it.
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You could put it in the back of someone's car (buried under seat cushions perhaps), or in an unused side pocket of their backpack. I don't find it at all hard to imagine.

Although, I think there is a type of experiment that would satisfy you. Make an agreement with a consenting friend or colleague: "at some point in the next three months, I'm going to try using an Airtag to surreptitiously track your movements. Do your best to stop me." You could even put some money on the line!
 
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Wowfunhappy said:
You could put it in the back of someone's car (buried under seat cushions perhaps), or in an unused side pocket of their backpack. I don't find it at all hard to imagine.
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OH absolutely, I think anyone that has access to the inside of your car OR house has a MUCH better chance tracking you. I’m assuming that’s the primary concern, though. Being tracked surreptitiously by someone you know… far more than being tracked by an anonymous other. And, the videos DO show that particular risk accurately.
 
For some reason people enjoy living in a surveillance state. Ring doorbells, security cameras, AirTags.
 
jlc1978 said:
It's not about one person being able to track a specific device, which both can do, but the ability of others to all=so track it unbeknownst to either party.

Cellular - sending signal to tower so unless you have a device that can spoof cellular towers or otherwise garb the signal you cannot intercept signal

Airtag - sends signal and (encrypted) data to cell phones nearby, which has the potential for detection and tracking by a 3rd party in the vicinity.

Think of it as the difference from being able to track a cell phone from what tower it pings where you need access to the tower data; vs. a bluetooth device that constantly sends out a signal saying "Hi. I'm a device nearby." Sort of like a bluetooth beacon, except encrypted and not being used to locate other devices.

I'm not saying it would be easy to do, but a security flaw in Airtags would potentially mean every iPhone or other phones compatible with Airtags could be used to track them because of how the report location.
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It seems like your concerns are about the underlying technology of Bluetooth vs. Cellular encryption, which is immaterial to the point I'm trying to make. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. :)
 
incoherent_1 said:
It seems like your concerns are about the underlying technology of Bluetooth vs. Cellular encryption, which is immaterial to the point I'm trying to make. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. :)
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Fair enough, I may be missing your point. Mine is the underlying way the airtags function to determine their location opens up a new avenue for tracking by third parties. One, I think, might be much easier to exploit than cellular trackers.
 
cmaier said:
The fact that the thing starts beeping would seem to be a way for them to know they’re being stalked, no?

So, when Tile sells devices that don’t do that, are they also banking on selling to stalkers?

How big, do you think, is the stalker market? What percentage of Apple’s quarterly revenue would fall into sales of airtags to stalkers who are stalking people with android devices?

I’d really like to understand the full depth of this conspiracy.
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Appreciate the pith, and I'm thankful you're not someone who's had the misfortune of having an unbalanced person following you around. Regardless, if it's plausible that even one person with ill-intent could see this as a product they could use, and if it's plausible that Apple's not run by ignorant morons, then yes, they've considered it as a draw for more sales. And before you jump through another logical hoop, no, I'm not saying it's why they made the product, nor its target market.

Is that stalker-market large? Hopefully not. But since you want to understand the full-depth, please run a poll and let me know what stalkers feel about this product. It's clear you're not their target market either so you have nothing to worry about.
 
shigatashway said:
Appreciate the pith, and I'm thankful you're not someone who's had the misfortune of having an unbalanced person following you around. Regardless, if it's plausible that even one person with ill-intent could see this as a product they could use, and if it's plausible that Apple's not run by ignorant morons, then yes, they've considered it as a draw for more sales. And before you jump through another logical hoop, no, I'm not saying it's why they made the product, nor its target market.

Is that stalker-market large? Hopefully not. But since you want to understand the full-depth, please run a poll and let me know what stalkers feel about this product. It's clear you're not their target market either so you have nothing to worry about.
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I wonder how big the killer market is for kitchen knife customers. Hopefully not too big.
 
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