All Three Major U.S. Carriers and Google Adopt Rich Communication Services, But No Sign of Apple Interest

[hewbass]

What a seamless and easy to use experience, Apple should get right on that...



So the "standard" doesn't even ACTUALLY enhance user security. But Apple is the one holding it back?

The *Standard* (and yes, it is an internationally published one, owned by the GSMA) does enhance user security even without the E2EE layering over the top, as it encrypts all messages in transit. The end points (your phone, the service provider message store) are, however, not required to be in anything other than clear text.

And yes it is a fairly seemless experience when using the web client PWA on a decent web browser implementation such as Edge, Chrome, probably Firefox. Sorry iPad users (and I am one)

Yes: iPhone to iPhone conversations are more secure than using RCS without E2EE. But introducing an iPhone into a conversation between RCS users makes all of the participants less secure.

 

[hewbass]

Do you ignore other e2e encrypted services that is platform agnostic like Whatsapp and Signal? The problems that RCS is trying to solve have been solved already, thus there's little interests on RCS from operators and OEMs.

I don't mind people or Google promoting RCS. But pointing a finger at Apple is silly as majority of Android users around the world don't even use it. If Google wanted RCS to be successful, Google should be making it a requirement for GMS certification. That way all Android devices will have to support it by default.

WhatsApp and Signal are not platform agnostic, they are their own platforms. They can run on other platforms, but unlike (say email) you don't have any choice about finding an alternative provider for that service, and they don't interoperate (even if they broadly use the same basis for their protocols). Good luck talking to a WhatsApp user from Signal or vice versa!

If Google truly do want to make it successful, then they will make it part of GMS certification, but although they are promoting it, it is not *their* standard.

 

[hewbass]

WhatsApp and Signal are not platform agnostic, they are their own platforms. They can run on other platforms, but unlike (say email) you don't have any choice about finding an alternative provider for that service, and they don't interoperate (even if they broadly use the same basis for their protocols). Good luck talking to a WhatsApp user from Signal or vice versa!

If Google truly do want to make it successful, then they will make it part of GMS certification, but although they are promoting it, it is not *their* standard.

To be honest mostly this is really about making sure the "out of box" experience is the best possible, without having to install half a dozen different messaging apps to be able to talk to all your friends/family, or having to install a brand new app every time your meet a new person just to be able to talk to them.

 

[hewbass]

This brings up a good point. Even though person to person texting would be encrypted with this new protocol, what would happen with the shortcode texts that companies send out? Or the two factor SMS texts that get sent out? Would those somehow adopt RCS as well?

There's supposed to be RCS Business Messaging, with active links/buttons in the messages (e.g. your boarding pass with links to the gate information, etc)

It's where the monetisation model is supposed to be.

 

[hewbass]

It's not seamless experience. First, not all carriers around the world support it, and not all OEM's support it either on their default SMS app. So the first thing a user have to do is change their default SMS app to Google's messenger. That alone is already a huge barrier for normal folks.

Why bother with Apple when majority of Android OEMs don't even support it? Google doesn't even care if Android OEMs use it.

People *can* install Google messages, or depending on OEM (Samsung, Huwei, etc.) just use the RCS client built into their phone. That's the entire point of it: the out of box experience.

It's still not fully there yet, but it's reaching the point of penetration where it is starting to make a difference and be noticeable- hence this conversation presumably.

 

[hewbass]

What a seamless and easy to use experience, Apple should get right on that...



So the "standard" doesn't even ACTUALLY enhance user security. But Apple is the one holding it back?

Also I fail to understand how any implementation of RCS that Apple may make would be less seemless for the end user than what they already do. Especially in countries where group messaging over SMS is not an actual thing, but RCS is.

Supporting RCS would be an enhancement for iPhone users as well as for everyone else who has access to RCS and wants to talk to iPhone users.

Really not sure why you are so opposed to the idea.

 

[alecgold]

They used to champion standards around the early days of Mac OS X. They don’t have to care now because they aren’t on their knees. Just a large corporation that behaves like a cunning _fill in adjective_.

problem with iMessage is that it has a lot of rights and possibilities within iOS. That also means that it's on of the most vulnerable parts of iOS and as it is Apple is having enough trouble keeping hackers at bay (looking at you, Pegasus!!)
I still believe in iOS as one of the most secure operating systems we have, but it's certainly not perfect.
And I hate the business model where I'm paying with my data for a "free" service/OS/whatever.

 

[Germany12Points]

Here in Germany, RCS was available from all mobile operators, but since it was not natively supported in either Android or iOS at the time, O2 completely abandoned RCS in 2017 and disabled it on the network side. T-Mobile and Vodafone still offer it in their networks. T-Mobile additionally operates its own app for it, Vodafone does not. If Apple does not bring it with iOS 15 or with iOS 16 next year at the latest, it will not have a chance to establish itself.
Unfortunately, over 90% of the population here in Germany use WhatsApp, which they are practically forced to do. I could still resist, only use the messaging app from Apple. However, there are many more Android users here, so I still write a lot of old-fashioned text messages every day. MMS even still cost 39 cents here, so I always send photos via iCloud link, sometimes also by e-mail

(Translated from German into English with DeepL)

 

[ian87w]

Here in Germany, RCS was available from all mobile operators, but since it was not natively supported in either Android or iOS at the time, O2 completely abandoned RCS in 2017 and disabled it on the network side. T-Mobile and Vodafone still offer it in their networks. T-Mobile additionally operates its own app for it, Vodafone does not. If Apple does not bring it with iOS 15 or with iOS 16 next year at the latest, it will not have a chance to establish itself.
Unfortunately, over 90% of the population here in Germany use WhatsApp, which they are practically forced to do. I could still resist, only use the messaging app from Apple. However, there are many more Android users here, so I still write a lot of old-fashioned text messages every day. MMS even still cost 39 cents here, so I always send photos via iCloud link, sometimes also by e-mail

(Translated from German into English with DeepL)

Yes. You are describing the reasons why RCS will never succeed.

It's too late at this point in my opinion. If RCS was pushed hard 10 years ago, things would've been different. Now, majority of consumers already know to use Whatsapp. And considering no OEMs are supporting nor turning on RCS out of the box (Samsung only recently switched to Google Messages for their default SMS app), majority of consumers won't even know what RCS is. With carriers nor OEMs not bothered (ie. it doesn't bring them money), RCS will just go nowhere. Pointing fingers at Apple is silly and will not help.

 

[Krizoitz]

It's not seamless experience. First, not all carriers around the world support it, and not all OEM's support it either on their default SMS app. So the first thing a user have to do is change their default SMS app to Google's messenger. That alone is already a huge barrier for normal folks.

Why bother with Apple when majority of Android OEMs don't even support it? Google doesn't even care if Android OEMs use it.

Yeah I agree, my comment was sarcastic about the seamless part, guess that didn’t carry over 😆

 

[Krizoitz]

Also I fail to understand how any implementation of RCS that Apple may make would be less seemless for the end user than what they already do. Especially in countries where group messaging over SMS is not an actual thing, but RCS is.

Supporting RCS would be an enhancement for iPhone users as well as for everyone else who has access to RCS and wants to talk to iPhone users.

Really not sure why you are so opposed to the idea.

If Apple chooses to adopt it that’s fine I’m not opposed to the idea of an SMS successor in principle.
But RCS has quite a few problems so I’m not exactly disappointed Apple isn’t jumping on that bandwagon either.
What I actually have a problem with is the faulty idea that Apple is somehow at fault for not adopting RCS given those numerous issues that still have yet to be considered/resolved. Apple is not making anyone’s communication less secure, that’s moving the goalposts. Apple has made more people’s communications MORE secure with iMessage over the years.
Champion RCS all you want, try and convince people it’s a good idea (rather than the mess I think it is) but Apple isn’t the villain here, and Google is far from the hero.

 

[marco114]

Typical Apple, wouldn't open their messaging platform and now they've been gone around and users will suffer.

 

[brofkand]

Wouldn’t really make sense for apple to champion encryption and privacy like they do and also refuse to adopt an encrypted replacement for SMS.

 

[currocj]

pure evil on apple’s part. They don’t want to de-emphasize iMessage because RCS will finally pull people out of SMS hell.

I cringe when I’m on a chat groups where 12 out of 13 people are iPhone and that 1 person is on Android so we all descend into: so and so laughed at [repeat entire message]

 

[quarkysg]

pure evil on apple’s part. They don’t want to de-emphasize iMessage because RCS will finally pull people out of SMS hell.

Nothing much Apple can do when most mobile service providers in the world doesn't have the RCS service implemented. From my understanding, it's not enough just to have the RCS client.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Don't see what the cost (other than development) to Apple is to allow RCS for non-iMessages. Are there really customers who think "I'm going to move to/stick with iPhone" because I can't text across platforms securely? On the other hand, RCS may make Android users in US less willing to switch.

If they wanted to be in this user group, Google would need to offer its API so anyone could implement it into their own app. That’s wholesale - any OEM offering this right now needs to use Google Messages, not just any “RCS” app.

RCS is a GSMA standard. Not specific to Android.

These are publically known facts (actually heavily advertised ones in the telecoms industry).

RCS is a standard, but anyone can implement their own closed platform with it. It standardizes zero cross-carrier capabilities and allows carriers the ability to enable/disable it on their end, the largest issues that Google seeks to resolve here - their solution works without carrier enablement and allows cross-carrier interoperability. In order to jump on board, Apple would need Google’s API, they most certainly won’t be looking to have 2 apps to perform the same functions 1 app does today.

 

[hewbass]

If they wanted to be in this user group, Google would need to offer its API so anyone could implement it into their own app. That’s wholesale - any OEM offering this right now needs to use Google Messages, not just any “RCS” app.




RCS is a standard, but anyone can implement their own closed platform with it. It standardizes zero cross-carrier capabilities and allows carriers the ability to enable/disable it on their end, the largest issues that Google seeks to resolve here - their solution works without carrier enablement and allows cross-carrier interoperability. In order to jump on board, Apple would need Google’s API, they most certainly won’t be looking to have 2 apps to perform the same functions 1 app does today.

They don't need Google's API. RCS standardises cross carrier capability, if they are implementing the Universal Profile (and if they are not, they are not really implementing the GSMA standard) - that's what all the interop meetings are all about.

 

[MaxBurn]

Every time I see iMessage as end to end encrypted that annoys me. Sure, it is; but apple holds the keys to decrypt that and they can also pull backups off the phone and get the messages that way. It's not worthless but it's clearly a step below things like threema or signal where you are the only one with the keys.

I haven't read much on RCS but I gather it's much the same. Also with the unencrypted fallback sounds like it's ripe for downgrade attacks.

 

[quarkysg]

Every time I see iMessage as end to end encrypted that annoys me. Sure, it is; but apple holds the keys to decrypt that and they can also pull backups off the phone and get the messages that way. It's not worthless but it's clearly a step below things like threema or signal where you are the only one with the keys.

Erm ... no. Apple does not have the keys to decrypt end-to-end encrypted iMessages. It is called end-to-end encryption for a reason.

 

[PJM83]

Nothing much Apple can do when most mobile service providers in the world doesn't have the RCS service implemented. From my understanding, it's not enough just to have the RCS client.

It is enough to have the google messages app. Google bypassed the providers when they where so slow in rolling it out. Samsung also has RCS in their messaging app regardless of provider.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Question: just how secure is RCS? 🤔 🤷‍♂️ Especially if it's from Google.

 

[quarkysg]

It is enough to have the google messages app. Google bypassed the providers when they where so slow in rolling it out. Samsung also has RCS in their messaging app regardless of provider.

Well, Google has a vested interest in providing the backend servers to power the RCS service, as they could monetize the data collected from the RCS traffic.

There's no motivation for Apple to do what Google is doing, as they have different business model. Additionally it'll add complexity to the Messages app with very little benefit to the end user, since almost no one is using RCS. If implementing RCS would result in a big rush to purchase Apple devices, you can bet that Apple will implement it in a heartbeat.

 

[hewbass]

If Apple chooses to adopt it that’s fine I’m not opposed to the idea of an SMS successor in principle.
But RCS has quite a few problems so I’m not exactly disappointed Apple isn’t jumping on that bandwagon either.
What I actually have a problem with is the faulty idea that Apple is somehow at fault for not adopting RCS given those numerous issues that still have yet to be considered/resolved. Apple is not making anyone’s communication less secure, that’s moving the goalposts. Apple has made more people’s communications MORE secure with iMessage over the years.
Champion RCS all you want, try and convince people it’s a good idea (rather than the mess I think it is) but Apple isn’t the villain here, and Google is far from the hero.

It's a fact that SMS communication is less secure than RCS communication. Everything runs on as a consequence of that.

 

[Preed08]

It would be nice if Apple did something in this regard. If i'm sending a photo or video, I dont care what platform the other user is using, I should still be able to send that media item in higher quality than what MMS provides. Any extended holdout is blatant anti-consumer behavior.

If Apple wants their competing service, iMessage, to win over RCS, then they simply need to port it to Android. They wont be able to hold out forever, SMS/MMS is an extremely dated technology

 

[Razorpit]

I doubt anybody under the age of 65 uses SMS anymore anyway. When I do, it's only to reply to somebody with an Android phone over the age of 65 who doesn't have Signal. Are there many situations where SMS is still used? companies use it still to contact you? Banks, airlines etc. I guess.

I don’t know a single person that uses Signal or even heard of it under the age of 100.

Yeah like when Apple was the last to adopt a GUI for its OS…oh wait
Or the last to use trackpads…oh wait
Or the last to adopt WiFi in its laptops…oh wait
Or the last to adopt USB…oh wait
Or the last to adopt capacitive touch screens…oh wait

I believe you can add 3 1/2” floppies and Bluetooth to that list. 😉