Spock
Contributor
Those are standards/trends THEY created, not something they adopted because of the market.
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All Three Major U.S. Carriers and Google Adopt Rich Communication Services, But No Sign of Apple Interest
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crosseyedbum
macrumors newbie
The perspective behind this article is user based. But Apple is a company focused on making money like any other company. The adoption of RCS by google is just google catching up to apple’s messaging services over a decade late. It brings no incentives for apple’s business model. And really, by not adopting it, it changes nothing for the present iPhone user experience. It keeps the status quo for iPhone users, and makes messaging suck less for Android users. Why Apple should feel pressured to join this adoption like it’s a break through moment is hilarious in my opinion. It’s simply google catching up framed as a technological break through. If they want Apple to join, they are going to have to make it worth their while. Cause it stands, it isn’t.
Google doesn't have access to end to end encryption as per their own policy -
"With end-to-end encryption, no one, including Google and third parties, can read eligible messages as they travel between your phone and the phone you message. "
If Google did try and serve ads based on end to end encryption text messages then everyone would know about it and Google's business would be irreparably harmed. Same for Google's policy on not using "sensitive" information, there's no way that Google could both monetize this kind of data and keep it secret. We would all quickly know about it by the ads we receive and Google would be exposed.
The truth is that Google only requires very basic information to charge advertisers extra $ for targeted ads. Age , gender, region you're in with acceptable browsing/search history data is all Google needed to make targeted ads work and become a trillion dollar company. Hyperbole about Google wanting "everything" is just FUD directed at naive consumers that's meant to lock people into Apple's ecosystem.
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"Why Apple should feel pressured to join this adoption like it’s a break through moment is hilarious in my opinion. "
The "pressure" comes from Apple themselves. They constantly talk security and privacy and RCS has huge advantages in both over SMS. By not supporting RCS they are being hypocrites.... which shouldn't surprise anyone considering that Apple also practices privacy invading user tracking and targeted ads themselves on the app store and Apple News while criticizing others for the same behavior. Not to mention the Siri recording iPhone users fiasco and sharing that data with 3rd parties without consent, and we can't forget that Apple chose to help Google exploit iPhone users private search data in exchange for billions a year etc.
In other words by not supporting RCS Apple is giving yet another example of how their stance on privacy/security is at best just marketing spin with little if any substance behind it.
Google Assistant gets triggered by accident from time to time. Even the TV sometimes wakes my Google home, lol.
The same has occurred with Siri. Sometimes people were triggering Siri unintentionally just by the way they raised their Apple watch. Both companies used the data to improve the service but Android/Assistant users always had the opt out option while Apple only gave that option once they got caught doing it without consent. Apple also contracted and shared with a 3rd party company the data, Google did not.
"revenue comes from gathering as much data on a user as possible to monetize that knowledge of each specific user."
Also, the entire "Google wants as much data as possible" angle is absolute nonsense. Google only needs very basic data in order for targeted ads to work and "sensitive" data is off the table as per their own published policy. If they were to make targeted ads based on more that just your age, gender, region and acceptable online activity then they wouldn't be able to hide it. We would see this "sensitive" information in the ads we get and Google's business would be irreparably harmed.
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"With end-to-end encryption, no one, including Google and third parties, can read eligible messages as they travel between your phone and the phone you message. "
There are inherent security concerns with end to end encryption, like how secure is what you just sent once it's decrypted on the other person's device? Google reading end to end encryption in transit is not one of them. They would be quickly exposed by the ads we receive and their business irreparably harmed as a result.
mazz0
macrumors 68040
Indeed. iMessage competes very well with SMS on Mac.
"why would you expect Apple to help with making its competitor’s technology a standard"
Because Apple is supposed to be all about privacy and security and RCS has huge advantages in both over SMS. Apple supporting RCS, the new industry standard that's to replace SMS, would be good for users on both platforms.
hatchettjack
macrumors 6502a
Google and security are oxymoron’s
Krizoitz
macrumors 68000
Time to change your name because you have behaved in a very illogical fashion, declaring as true something that is easily proven to be false. The “real” Spock would be ashamed of you.
The mouse was Xerox PARC
The 3.5” floppy design was created by Sony. So too the CD.
PostScript fonts were Adobe
Ethernet was again Xerox PARC, along with DEC and Intel
Bluetooth was Ericsson and Intel leading with IBM, Nokia, and Toshiba helping develop it.
USB was Microsoft, Intel, Compaq, DEC, IBM, Nortel and NEC.
WiFi was the NCR Corporation and AT&Ts Bell Labs
Apple absolutely was an early promoter of many of them, but none were created by Apple. So it is utterly false to claim Apple only supports/promotes standards it creates.
I'm not sure if all transit through Google servers or not. There's some talk of Verizon and others still using their own bit it doesn't matter anyways. Google can't read/record RCS messages that have end to end encryption -
"With end-to-end encryption, no one, including Google and third parties, can read eligible messages as they travel between your phone and the phone you message. "
We would all know by the ads we receive if Google could/did and they would be quickly exposed as a result.
Krizoitz
macrumors 68000
1. RCS isn’t a standard
2. Apple isn’t required to support each and every attempt to replace SMS, nor does it mean they don’t value and promote privacy when they don’t do so
3. RCS is a mess after over a decade of Google promoting it. Carriers can support or not support various features, E2E is only in beta and only then between two people, not groups. Why should Apple support this utter mess of a non-standard by its biggest competitor?
1. RCS is the new standard if both OEMs and carriers support it and that's what we're seeing now, at least in North America. Places like Europe will have it as well but they all use WhatsApp over there, even iPhone users. Now, that's not to say SMS will disappear but RCS IS it's intended replacement and is being accepted as such by most of the industry already.
2. If Apple wants to put an emphasis on privacy and security then supporting RCS is a no brainer.
3. "over a decade of Google promoting it". LOL, no. Google didn't switch from Allo to a broad support for RCS until 2018 and even then they left it up to carriers to adopt on their own for 2 more years. Only more recently has Google bypassed carriers and implemented it on their own. Samsung however did adopt it earlier and before that it was a GSMA initiative.
It's NOT a mess either. Apple need only support the RSC protocol for a more secure solution for those that have it enabled. If it doesn't apply, groups or other messaging apps for example, then it would continue to revert to SMS. Just because RCS is supported it doesn't mean SMS isn't.
Verizon isn't supporting it until next year so there's no hurry for Apple to act but it should be in their plans as well if security and privacy is really a priority for Apple.
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Krizoitz
macrumors 68000
1. No that’s not what a standard is. A standard is certified by a relevant industry body after a review process. But even if we go by your definition RCS is still not a standard as it hasn’t been widely accepted. Maybe it will be someday but it’s not yet.
2. RCS is a mess. It is so so so far from a “no brainer”. It doesn’t even have full E2E support in BETA yet after over a decade. It’s a hodge podge of features with mixed support that has already failed in multiple markets. RCS is a “no brainer” in the same way Flash on iOS was a “no brainer”.
I’ll cop to being wrong about how long Google has been involved but the fact it has to bypass the carriers to implement it in the first place further demonstrates what a garbage dump RCS is. Some “standard”.
GSMA , the "relevant industry body" first proposed RCS in place of SMS in 2016 after a lengthy "review" process. Last time I checked it isn't 2027 so your "over 10 years" argument is ridiculous. As for the standard argument, it simply doesn't matter what you or I think, the GSMA body set the industry standard and they want RCS.
You're also wrong about it being a "mess", and "failing". This is just more of the exaggerated nonsense that your arguments rely so heavily on. E2E for group chats is still to be tested and implemented but for individuals all the benefits of RCS already work, and flawlessly in my experience. For all we know that last missing feature will be ready next year when Verizon adopts the RCS protocol. RCS also isn't seeing the security problems that iMessage has experienced. No text is shutting down my phone.
That Google bypassed carriers and began to roll RCS out two years ago is a good thing and that makes it no different than iMessages, WhatsApp, Telegram etc who also bypass the carriers. None of them are the "garbage dump" that you describe. Besides my own experience using RCS, that fans of iMessage feel the need to form dishonest and nonsensical arguments is just more proof of how great RCS is imo.
Like it or not, the only reason that Apple won't follow Verizon next year and support RCS is because Apple's commitment to security and privacy has always been more about marketing than substance. Ignoring the far more secure and feature rich RCS and the benefits it brings to their own users will be yet another example of that.
Krizoitz
macrumors 68000
Nope, RCS has been kicking around since 2007 and the working group hosted by the GSMA since 2008. It’s really easy to check this stuff. I don’t know why you insist on being so wrong.
And yes it’s a mess.
Carriers and phone companies can pick and choose which features they support.
E2E is STILL not part of the standard, 14 years in.
Multiple carriers have dropped support over the years.
By your own repeated admission Google had to bypass carriers to get it on their phones. Yes other chat apps bypass the carriers, they also never claimed to be a “standard”. That’s a big difference.
And finally no, Apples claims on privacy and security are proven by their actions, just like Google’s lack of priority on those areas are also proven by theirs.
You are either blatantly astroturfing on behalf of Google or someone else who has gone all in on RCS or you are just anti-Apple to begin with. You have repeatedly ignored facts that contradict your claims and keep making ridiculous biased arguments. Enjoy your dumpster fire of an RCS service. I’m happy for Apple to wait until a real solution is offered and use iMessage in the meantime.
No headphone jack, and no USB-A.
If iMessage need to become the standard and replacement for SMS on all platforms, then, iMessage must be open source and become independent from Apple, controlled by ISO or IEC, just like the PDF standard was given to the ISO by Adobe.
Yes, that's true. They use iMessage as a selling point so the last thing they want to do is showcase RCS. Just imagine, Apple showing their own users that the competition has a messenger with similar features to iMessage.
I'm thinking it won't happen, even if SMS becomes a serious security problem for iPhone users, Apple will sacrifice both security and privacy before they show off RCS.
bousozoku
Moderator emeritus
Will Google be able to decrypt the messages?
For the NSA or FBI you mean? Perhaps if they have the storage space for trillions of encrypted messages for billions of users. I'm thinking that servers and storage limitations will see a shelf life put on them, and that a warrant would be required to access them if it's even possible to do so. I also think that Google wants carriers on board so that Verizon ect can use their own servers and storage space as it's probably not economical for Google to build the facilities required to handle every single Android user.
They're not doing for targeted ads or in real time, that much we know. From Googles policy;
" With end-to-end encryption, no one, including Google and third parties, can read eligible messages as they travel between your phone and the phone you message. "
Personally, I'd be more concerned about what happens to the encrypted message or file once it's decrypted on the receiving device. People get all caught up in the transit of the message without giving a thought to what happens to it on the other end. In other words, Google may not be able to see your dlck pic's but the person you sent it to, or the person who hacked your recipient can still choose to put it online for all to see. ;-)
DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
have you come across anyone accessing a telco’s servers to get sms/mms records before? I’ve only heard from the end device.
I still think the medium isn’t the weakest link, it’s the user or the device that sms terminates from.
question if someone sends you an RCS message while your SIM is out of a device or not powered on for e-sims, powering on another or inserting your sim in another (like an upgrade), does the message in transit terminate on the new device or ends on the carrier servers? Sms has a 72hr hold+retry.
Krizoitz
macrumors 68000
Apple isn’t doing a single thing to “sabotage” RCS and it doesn’t need to, it’s a big enough mess on its own.