AltStore for iPhone in EU Will Have Apps Backed By Patreon

[Nuno Lopes]

Interesting concept. I'm hoping to see Setapp business model one they in iOS as it is in macOS.

Looking forward for businesses being able to self publish. It seams that at the moment is all about App Stores. But the key is really the option for any user to be able to self publish and acquire apps to subscribe to digital services direct between each other on iOS ... most business don't need App Stores but App Hosting, much like Web Site hosting.

At the moment Apple App Store works similarly to a forced man in the middle business attack system ... when users click buy in app, instead of presenting the business payment service, like it happens 99% of computer systems, it presents the App Store payment service.

Cheers.

 

[techfreak23]

“I want my iPhone to be like my Mac… download an IPA and install… we’ve been able to do it on Macs for years… blah blah blah” I’m tired of seeing that argument. Yes, iPhones can technically be setup like Macs to install apps from anywhere, obviously, but that was never the model for iOS. Completely different paradigms and people/governments want to force Apple to change THEIR product. Go make your own damn smartphone so you can do whatever it is you want with your software and hardware. If Apple licensed iOS to other OEMs like Google with Android or Microsoft with Windows there would actually be an argument. iOS has always been a CLOSED platform and Apple has never marketed it as otherwise. Next thing you know Apple will be forced to start licensing its operating systems with the way things are going.

 

[Abazigal]

Make apple a private company or petition Apple to pull out of EU entirely. Or do both. After then, EU cannot demand Apple to do whatever EU likes, I am confident.

I don’t think Apple will do it, but you never know.

 

[justperry]

For the complainers, you can still use Apples App store by default.

 

[Jamie0003]

I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again. This CTF is pure extortion and Apple has absolutely no right what so ever to charge devs any money for apps that are not on AppStore. Let alone free ones. “Working on a solution….” Blah blah my butt. Just drop it entirely, what’s there to speculate about?

I hope, really hope, that EU fines Apple so daaaamn hard for this. Tim needs to learn a lesson from this.

I still don’t get why everyone on here seems to be defending Apple for this crap. Having more competition is going to mean more user choice, more money to devs and ultimately a better experience overall, since we’ll finally be able to use iOS for stuff it’s not currently able to do, such as running terminal, formatting drives and a proper file manager.

This will also force Apple to open the AppStore more too, like what happened with cloud gaming apps. Literally everybody wins, except for Apple.

Apple brought this on themselves by being so tight fisted with the AppStore in the first place. They deserve every fine they get.

Apple might continue to use the argument that it’s all about privacy and security. It’s not. Look at what happened with type C, it’s all about making Apple more money via MFI money, in this case. Same deal here.

What about macOS? It’s been open since the beginning, is anyone calling for Apple to close it down? Nope. Nobody died, Mac is as strong as ever.

Y’all are hypocrites. Stop defending trillion dollar corporations, they aren’t your friends and only care about their bottom line. It’s madness

 

[Applfan81]

If I can’t own apps it is not for me. I detest subscription's, and will not support it.

 

[Dreadnought]

Big question is: will this store also handle all Tax an VAT declarations in all countries in the world and all regions/states (US and Canada) like Apple (and Google) does? Or is it just like payment provider (like Adyen) where you need to handle this on your own?
The fees that Apple and Google charge are not that bad for what you get. As a developer you don’t need to handle B2C sales, only 1 B2B with Apple. Which saves you lots of administrative hassle.
I’m coming from the online gaming business and our fees for small game developers that have their game on our websites are 40-60%, which is normal in that business.

 

[Beautyspin]

Oh no, maybe people like having everything come from one place instead of having to go to multiple places. Ever consider that? Is it difficult to get apps on the Mac? No. Is it annoying having to go to multiple places to get apps and would it be much more convenient to be able to get them all in one place? Absolutely! The app experience on Mac would be FAR BETTER if the ONLY place I had to go was the App Store. But no, instead, I have to go to multiple vendor websites for multiple apps. None from the same place and my payment information has to be put out into even more places.

The app experience on Mac is absolute crap and something I don’t want to have to deal with on my phone.

Well, currently, my workflow for new app discovery is like this.
1. I am browsing a forum, tech website, or some website that review tech products and see a good app recommendation so I want to try it out.
2. I go to Google search and search for an app that does what I want to do (like search for "Video editing Apps for my iPhone.")
3. I get the results, and then I copy the app name.
4. I go to the Appstore and again search for the name of the app. Sometimes, I get the app in the results and go to the app page and install.

If I could install it directly, I could save steps 3 and 4. I see the I am saving time and effort. The developer is saving money. Not sure how it is bad?

 

[theclaw37]

Lol replace appstore with subscriptions. GTFO mate.

 

[Beautyspin]

That’s exactly what it does. Look no further than the fact that the EU keeps threatening to fine based on “worldwide” revenue…something they should have absolutely ZERO right to. The EU should be limited to issuing fines based on revenue from within their economic area. Anything outside of that makes it look like exactly what it is…a money grab.

Apple could say it has no revenue in the EU and not pay any fine or it could have negligible revenue in the EU and hence fine as a percentage of it EU revenue may not deter Apple from repeating the actions.

 

[Ma2k5]

The only thing Apple is attempting to do is to protect their bottom line. Users don’t need to be protected. Apple and their model of profit control can take a hike.

Stop being scared. They’re just computers.

Well, you’re just making up numbers on the spot. From my research it’s 99+% of users that feel they should be able to decide what apps get installed on their own phone.

But beside that, the most powerful governments around the world are all looking to dismantle the nonsense that Apple has been getting away with since 2008. This isn’t the result of sub 1% of users. It’s the result of the world collectively saying enough of this garbage.

Clearly the world isn’t saying enough of this garbage given the unrivalled success of iOS and iPhones? But yes let’s turn a blind eye to that and pretend that 99% of people care about this alternative/unrestricted app stores.

 

[BuffaloTF]

But it costs more because Apple is pocketing the difference

Meanwhile the dev of the VPN is getting even LESS than on Android:

$99.99 - 30% = $69.99

So on Android the dev gets $74, on iOS the dev gets $70 and apple gets $30

Yeah… they aren’t getting 74 CAD. Play Store fees are identical. They’re getting 74 - 30% for the first year, for a total return of 52.50 CAD. Then 15% after the first year for a total of 63.75.

They’re charging more because they can get more from Apple users and need a carrot for the Android users.

 

[BuffaloTF]

lol what? When have forced competition by the government been bad?

Every single time? Electricity deregulation led to… higher prices and worse service. Breaking up AT&T led to… higher prices and worse service (and the loss of Bell Labs, which couldn’t patent anything non-telephony related… things like UNIX and stereo sound… and discovering the Big Bang… and there’s a huge laundry list of other things we lost out on). Breaking up Standard Oil led to… higher prices and making a retired man the richest person the planet has ever seen, oh, and also an energy industry that has an incredible amount of influence and control of our government.

Price control has been the only effective tool our government has ever employed… regulation. And that’s a 4-letter word for one of our major parties here.

 

[nottorp]

Hmm since when does Apple allow emulators like these?

Tbh I don't care about new and innovative ways to pay a subscription. I care about being able to install applications without Apple's involvement. And this is nowhere to be seen.

 

[I7guy]

Apple could say it has no revenue in the EU and not pay any fine or it could have negligible revenue in the EU and hence fine as a percentage of it EU revenue may not deter Apple from repeating the actions.

The euro’s setting a fine precedent forming a company based in global revenue. US government should take note. But this will take years to resolve. Good luck to the eu.

 

[Abazigal]

But it costs more because Apple is pocketing the difference

Meanwhile the dev of the VPN is getting even LESS than on Android:

$99.99 - 30% = $69.99

So on Android the dev gets $74, on iOS the dev gets $70 and apple gets $30

It's not immediately clear from the screenshot that the developer gets to keep 100% of revenue earned from android, so I am going to just take your word for it. Else, it could simply be a case of the developer opting to charge iOS users more because they think iOS users may be amenable to shelling out more money.

 

[Lihp8270]

I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again. This CTF is pure extortion and Apple has absolutely no right what so ever to charge devs any money for apps that are not on AppStore. Let alone free ones. “Working on a solution….” Blah blah my butt. Just drop it entirely, what’s there to speculate about?

I hope, really hope, that EU fines Apple so daaaamn hard for this. Tim needs to learn a lesson from this.

Devs should then produce their applications without using any of apples technology or APIs.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

That’s exactly what it does. Look no further than the fact that the EU keeps threatening to fine based on “worldwide” revenue…something they should have absolutely ZERO right to. The EU should be limited to issuing fines based on revenue from within their economic area. Anything outside of that makes it look like exactly what it is…a money grab.

The fines aren't based on "worldwide" revenues. Apple EU business is so massive that the numbers maybe confusing to you.

 

[iOS Geek]

The fines aren't based on "worldwide" revenues. Apple EU business is so massive that the numbers maybe confusing to you.

They aren't? That's strange, because the EU seems to say otherwise. Have you taken the time to actually read about the fines and threats of them? You might want to do a quick read if you really want to go with the condescending attitude, because the EU, in their own words, keeps threatening to fine based on percentages of "worldwide revenue". Worldwide revenue...straight from the horses mouth. Otherwise, if that's the attitude you want to take...make sure your facts line up, because the EU's own words don't line up with your claim that the fines aren't based on that.

 

[rellimie]

Then don’t install 3rd party app stores.

Apple is mandated to allow other app stores, but users aren’t mandated to use them.

(Digital) Costumers being able to choose from a wide variety of (digital) goods from a wide variety of (digital) stores. Thats what a free market is about.

The free market also allows for a person to purchase an Android. I disagree that any government should force a manufacturer to change their product when there are alternative products that consumers could purchase.

I also disagree with the US DOJ lawsuit against Apple.

 

[MisterSavage]

Ngl. This is pretty smart

That’s a very cool idea. Could be a way out of our current freemium hellscapet

Agreed. I'm interested to see how it plays out and what it offers. That's the nice thing about having options. The "I'll never pay a subscription for anything" crowd can be happy with something else but those who are willing to make a recurring payment for something quality can also get it.

 

[ChromeAce]

While I agree...unfortunately, it wouldn't help much. The simple fact that this is all in the code, whether you use it or not...is a security risk. The only way to reduce the risk that has been introduced by this forced change to the code...is to undo the changes to the code. But now due to the EU...that genie is out of the bottle and there's no turning back, no matter how bad it gets. Welcome to legislation that completely ignores potential negative outcomes...written by people who will try to push the blame for any negative outcomes, even though it's their fault.

That’s not true. Alternate stores can be allowed and still sandboxed from the rest of the OS by running them in a special virtual machine on the phone, for example. There are many ways to do it.

Apple could also create an app users you download to remove any alt store enabling code completely from their own phones.

 

[I7guy]

I still don’t get why everyone on here seems to be defending Apple for this crap. Having more competition is going to mean more user choice, more money to devs and ultimately a better experience overall, since we’ll finally be able to use iOS for stuff it’s not currently able to do, such as running terminal, formatting drives and a proper file manager.

Competition ripping apart apples intellectual property via regulation is not competition. It’s government playing Robin Hood.

This will also force Apple to open the AppStore more too, like what happened with cloud gaming apps. Literally everybody wins, except for Apple.

No this will force a downward spiral of the ecosystem.

Apple brought this on themselves by being so tight fisted with the AppStore in the first place. They deserve every fine they get.

No they didn’t. It’s a vendetta against American tech.

Apple might continue to use the argument that it’s all about privacy and security. It’s not. Look at what happened with type C, it’s all about making Apple more money via MFI money, in this case. Same deal here.

That’s exactly what it’s about. Privacy and security and apples ip.

What about macOS? It’s been open since the beginning, is anyone calling for Apple to close it down? Nope. Nobody died, Mac is as strong as ever.

What about it? Different platform.

Y’all are hypocrites. Stop defending trillion dollar corporations, they aren’t your friends and only care about their bottom line. It’s madness

The bar of what constitutes a hypocrite is sadly misplaced. Trillion dollar corporations deserve defense when they are in the right.(which they are here)

 

[Shirasaki]

Y’all are hypocrites. Stop defending trillion dollar corporations, they aren’t your friends and only care about their bottom line. It’s madness

Yeah madness, except those big companies are more than happy to, imma say it a bit nicely here, “influence” general public and massage the message so that hopefully more people fall into those craps than those who don’t. So far, it has been quite effective.

Devs should then produce their applications without using any of apples technology or APIs.

Yeah sure, then Apple should make iOS open source, then dev would be able to do so.
will that happen? Not in a million years, unless government forces Apple to do so.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Oh ok, if ONLY Apple didn’t apply dictatorship level censorship to their own App Store, trash it with random refusals to legit apps, extorting developers, ignoring scam apps, and so on and so on…

But, this is why Apple’s marketshare in the EU is below 20%, where I’d think most people in the EU would want it to be. Making the iPhone more attractive is just going to make Apple more money.