Am I crazy or...

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by cryer, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. cryer macrumors regular

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    May 3, 2010
    #1
  2. HLdan macrumors 603

    HLdan

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  3. kny3twalker macrumors 65816

    kny3twalker

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    #3
    take the picture from a lower angle and see if the effect is reversed. Apple does not use high end LCD panels. These are Twisted Nematic LCD panels and the viewing angles are poor especially vertically.
     
  4. elleana macrumors regular

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    #4
    If you don't think of it, you won't notice it.
     
  5. DanMacApple macrumors 6502

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    #5
    I completely agree.
     
  6. cryer thread starter macrumors regular

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    #6
    You mean like this?

    http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4582/photo2tu.jpg

    Also, I compared side by side to the one on display in the Apple store, same antiglare 17" model

    http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1673/photo1ly.jpg

    http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8339/photo2uar.jpg

    Can you see a difference between the two in the bottom center portion?

    I'm within my first 14 days so I can either replace it or keep it.. I'm afraid that if I replace it, the replacement might end up worse. Like even more apparent yellow. Or something I hate worse than even the yellow: dead or stuck pixels. So what to do?
     
  7. AlphaDogg macrumors 68040

    AlphaDogg

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    #7
    +1
     
  8. cryer thread starter macrumors regular

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    #8
    That's what I thought I would do but it kept bothering me. I made up my mind to do this a few days ago but then everytime I looked in that area (which is a lot obviously), I would wonder if there was a defect there because I had thought there might be yellow. So either it's worth a replacement or I just keep it. I just don't want to end up with a bad replacement and I don't want to end up keeping it and always thinking there's something wrong. So there's the issue.

    Have you looked at the two pictures I took in the Apple store I posted? I think it may be more apparent to see when comparing the two. If you open those two pictures in two separate browser tabs and go back and forth, there seems to be a difference.
     
  9. kny3twalker macrumors 65816

    kny3twalker

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    #9
    Yes, exactly like that.

    It does not appear to be anything other than the poor viewing angles associated with TN LCD panels. Until Apple adopts IPS or PVA LCD panels, the macbook pro displays will always have issues like this.
    Also I believe the glossy screen and glass dull the whites in comparison to an anti glare display.
    Have you tried calibrating it?

    I would keep it. If you need a perfect, color accurate monitor, buy an external for when at home.
     
  10. winninganthem macrumors 6502a

    winninganthem

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    #10
    ^-- Correct.

    Color shifting occurs in TN panels when you look at your display from odd angles. IPS panels prevent against color shifting the best, but are more expensive.
     
  11. cryer thread starter macrumors regular

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    #11
    If it's poor viewing angle, then why do these two MBP 17" screens differ?

    http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1673/photo1ly.jpg

    http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8339/photo2uar

    They are sitting side by side in same place, same lighting and that white square bottom center portion differ in tint, don't they? If you open them in two separate tabs and switch between them, you can make out a difference in tint.

    Another thing about that is that I asked a few employees there if they could see it, and only saying look at the bottom white square portion between the two and see if there is a difference and what it was. Didn't say either one was yellow. And about half of them said they saw a hint of yellow on mine whereas the other half didn't know. A friend of mine who came with me also saw it.

    I did try calibrating but I think it's still there. The colors after calibrating might be better overall but I kind of like a bit more saturation in color than normal (but not to the point of the glossy screes, which is why I got antiglare). I just don't want any yellowish tint.
     
  12. cryer thread starter macrumors regular

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    #12
    I don't mind color shifting since it is normal but is it normal to show yellowish tint in a white area? Should't it turn out to be totally 100% grey versus grey with a yellowish tint in a color shift like this? Don't you think the Apple store model shows this better than mine in the two pics I linked to?
     
  13. kny3twalker macrumors 65816

    kny3twalker

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    #13
    Did you bother to check and see if they are the same LCD panel model number?

    Apple sources LCD panels from a few sources and they receive different model numbered panels from each source, and even if they are the exact same manufacturer and model number panel, they can slight differences from panel to panel.
     
  14. cryer thread starter macrumors regular

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    #14
    I didn't know about that until I got home and did more research so I didn't get it but I can go back and find out. However, doesn't the point still stand that if both differ that way, then a better panel exists? Can you see the difference I'm talking about in the pics?
     
  15. kny3twalker macrumors 65816

    kny3twalker

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    #15
    Neither display is calibrated. I would expect with calibration that the results would be fairly similar.
    On the other hand, it is true that some of the models of the panels used are slightly better than others. In general, however, the differences will be minimal after calibration, and the viewing angle issues will be present across all displays.

    Nonetheless, I nor anyone else can or should convince you the display you have is fine if you feel otherwise. If you are not happy return it, but understand you may 1) have to pay a restocking fee 2) receive a display that may have other issues such as a dead or stuck pixel.
     
  16. cryer thread starter macrumors regular

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    #16
    Looking at the screen at odd angles isn't the issue though. I could care less if it looks yellowy at some awkward angle I'd never use it in. But looking at it at an angle that I'd normally use it in all the time, looking at it for hours.. that's the angle I'm concerned about. And that angle is the one in the pictures.

    This one is calibrated:

    http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8775/photo2eg.jpg

    So you're saying calibrated or not, it will still show up? Do you see any in that photo?

    Can you tell me if you see a difference at all between the two models I posted though (mine and store model) and if one is a bit more yellow than the other?

    I want to say I really appreciate your response, I'm within my first 14 days but only have about 4 days left so I feel like time is running out.
     
  17. mk1ap macrumors member

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  18. kny3twalker macrumors 65816

    kny3twalker

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    #18
    The problem is with the LCD panels apple uses. These panels have viewing angles are so narrow that there can be a change in contrast between the top and bottom of the screen when viewed directly in front of the user.

    I see that the white squares are not the same tone as they should be.
    If your complaint is not in respect to this issue but instead to the whites being slightly tinted, have you calibrated your display? If so did you do it by eye or with a professional calibration tool?

    And how do you know this image you posted is calibrated? It is your laptop?

    Unless you will be using this computer for color accurate work you are making too much of an issue of this. And if you are, you should be calibrating it with professional tools before beginning your worry/complaints.
     
  19. cryer thread starter macrumors regular

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    #19
    I think whites tinted is ok, isn't it? Like you said, these panels have narrow vertical viewing angles so the bottom square tinted in comparison to the top is ok -- but as long as it's tinted a shade duller than white, like a grey. But if it's tinted a shade of yellow, then that's not right, is it? And I feel that, between the two machines in the two pictures, the white bottom square on mine looks more tinted than the store model. Not only that, but the tint is of a slight yellow. Do you see that?

    Yes, that one I said was calibrated is mine. It's a spyder profile I found on this forum from someone with the exact same screen model and manufacturer.
     
  20. HLdan macrumors 603

    HLdan

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    #20
    OMG, the reason why I posted "YES" earlier in terms of the answer to your thread title is because I knew where this was going. Just looking at this post alone just shows that you are not even "using" your MBP, you're just spending days analyzing a TN panel. The MBP screens actually have very wide vertical viewing angles in terms of black level but any TN panel will be limited in terms of color shift.
    Honestly man, do yourself a favor, either get on with life and enjoy your MBP because overall it's an amazing machine, but if you're going to be this anal and OCD then by all means either exchange it from where you bought it or return it for a refund if possible.
    And before you think that I am just voicing an opinion and don't own any of these machines, I have the new 27" iMac and mine has a very slight yellow tinge at the bottom and I have the new 15" Core i5 MBP and the screen is great on it. Overall both the iMac and the MBP have screens that are much better than what's available in the PC world.
    Ask yourself (and forget about the money spent on a Mac), if this were a PC would you be this anal?
     
  21. cryer thread starter macrumors regular

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    #21
    Yes, I agree that's true. But please understand that the only reason this is true is because I am within the 14 day period to replace and I am making sure it's the best screen possible on an MBP. Once that's been resolved, I certainly won't be analyzing anymore.

    Like I said, I realize this. But doesn't a shift from white mean it should shift to a greyish tint and not a yellowish tint? This is why, if there is any yellow, I feel that something is wrong with the panel. Do you see any tint of yellow in any of the pics I posted, especially comparing to the store model?

    I think the MBP is great otherwise, it's just this one screen issue I'm having trouble deciding on what to do about. I would opt to exchange right away but the fear is that the replacement would be worse, whether it's yellow again (possibly more) or dead/stuck pixels. And I hate dead/stuck pixels much more (this one has none that I can tell). Then again, the replacement could be even better than the one I have now. So it's a total gamble and I just don't know what to do.

    I also got a 27" iMac i7 (refurb) before I got the MBP and I went through about 4 or 5 of them and they all had yellow tint or grey horizontal bar on the bottom or wifi card not detected or severe backlight bleed or even dented stands. And every single one had dead or stuck pixels on screen or in the iSight camera. I eventually returned it. So, as you can see, I really don't want to go through another round like this again but I do want to make sure my screen is as good as possible.

    edit: Should note that this MBP is bought new, not refurb. With the iMacs, all replacements were refurbs. So since this is new, does that mean less chance of problems if a replacement is done?

    I can't say I can forget about the money spent.. it cost me about $2400 and all I'd like is a screen that is defect-free. I understand about viewing angles and all but if the regular working angle I will use 99% of the time shows yellow then, is that ok for a $2400 computer?
     
  22. kny3twalker macrumors 65816

    kny3twalker

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    #22
    Using the profile made from another computer does not mean its calibrated; all panels are slightly different from the factory.

    I think you are being neurotic now. You need to do a professional calibration, before any further judgments can be made. Unless you are willing to do this, you should keep the one you have because your experiment is without any true reference and therefore flawed and nothing should be concluded.

    Personally I see nothing wrong with your display.
     
  23. cryer thread starter macrumors regular

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    #23
    Ok, but at least can you tell me if you see a difference between the bottom white square portions on mine and the store model, and which looks better?
     
  24. Syonidism macrumors regular

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    Turkey
    #24
    not to be a pr1ck or anything but have you noticed how yellow your lamps are? the overall picture seems really yellowish rather than the notebook itself.

    maybe try different light bulbs and then try to see if youre crazy or not...

    just my opinion though.
     
  25. kny3twalker macrumors 65816

    kny3twalker

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    Oct 25, 2009
    #25
    The default apple profiles are overly blue. That is why your display using the someone's calibrated profile appears warmer rather than cooler, like the model at the store.
    I, and my eyes, also prefer a cooler white especially on a computer display, but it does not mean its accurate.

    Both screen shots look like perfectly working displays.
     

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