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Am I the only one who loves the "old" MBP?
- Thread starter laudern
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Is it?
Significantly better ?
What discipline are you talking about?
Even "theoretical performance" is not much better than a upgraded cMBP...
You can buy it second hand… there are enough people who are very satisfied with their apple products - until the next iMac model appears on the market - EXACTLY then, from one moment to another, they feel that the same machine that they were lucky with yesterday is now "too slow" or the new one would be "better" … and so they sell their always sufficient machines for low prices...So my 2011 mini is user upgradable. I wish I had a 2011 iMac now.
The only discipline in which apple is TOP-OF THE WORLD is…..
….MARKETING for lemmings...
For his needs it probably is. Some people need a thinner, lighter laptop with a better display. Some (Myself included) prefer the cMBP for other reason.s
Yep thinner, lighter, fantastic screen, better performance, far better thermals, better graphics and gaming, faster SSD and a far better battery life. All in all a far more useful computer that is more likely to be carried with me, still have charge when needed and is more pleasant to use.
You will say that you can FEEL the "faster SSD" ???
"Better performance" - significantly ?
No offense, but this sounds for me more like pure theoretical and not practical advantages and citations of apple´s marketing……
let´s have a look about benchmarks on everymac.com:
last and best performing nMBP 2015:
Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz Processor Type: Core i7 (I7-4980HQ)
Introduction Date: May 19, 2015 Discontinued Date: N/A
Processors: 1 (4 Cores) Architecture: 64-Bit
Geekbench 2 (32): 13838 Geekbench 2 (64): 15709
Geekbench 3 (32): 3478 Geekbench 3 (32): 12839
Geekbench 3 (64): 3830 Geekbench 3 (64): 14317
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cMBP early/mid 2012
Introduction Date: June 11, 2012 Discontinued Date: October 22, 2013
Processor Speed: 2.7 GHz Processor Type: Core i7 (I7-3820QM)
Processors: 1 (4 Cores) Architecture: 64-Bit
Geekbench 2 (32): 12367 Geekbench 2 (64): 13477
Geekbench 3 (32): 3048 Geekbench 3 (32): 11760
Geekbench 3 (64): 3350 Geekbench 3 (64): 13136
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so - the nMBP is not at all remarkable but NOT-SIGNIFICANTLY ( max. 10-20%) "faster" than the old one… in REAL LIFE they have the same performance
Ok, I am not a gamer and this might be better for gaming, ok.
Might also be that the cooling is better - but this should not be a problem with manual SMCFanControl or MacFanControl. My "old" MBP 2012´s fans run nearly NEVER at more than the basic 2000 rpm, not even with DVDs, Videos, Photoshop, or HD-TV…
For me and many other customers, the retina screen is just useless because nearly impossible to work with Photoshop or without fatigue in office-apps: you see more things that are behind you than things on screen…. and you can do surveillance of colleagues in backside position without turning your head...
That´s the reason why prices for the 2011/2012 models with antiglare/hi-res Screen rests stable and is even slightly going up. Especially for the 2012 models with USB 3.0 and Intel 4000 GPU.
but ok - everyone has his personal standpoint…
BTW: For some 100 USD you can upgrade a classic MacPro from 2009 (!) without any problem - and the "Old" MacPro will be SIGNIFICANTLY OUTPERFORMING even the "most performing" new MacPro (TrashCan) which costs more than 7000 USD…
also in terms of GPU-performance (with an EFI-upgrade by MacVideoCards for 100 USD for 3rd party GPUs) the modified "OLD" MacPro will significantly outperform the "new" MacPro … for a budget of only about 1000 USD-1300 USD…
I got a 250 USD GPU with EFI-Mod for 100 USD for a MAcPro of 2009 - and this "OLD" machine is capable of working with a 5k-Monitor, the "new" MacPros are NOT YET…
Don´t trust in apple marketing…. they aim only at lemmings...
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A large part of the industry is moving this way, but there are still pockets of sanity left. The gaming market will always demand real laptops. They even have successfully pushed for Cherry MX switches in laptops (MSI makes one). The business sector also will always have a place for a real laptop. Dell's Latitude line is still pretty good and Thinkpads, while not what they once were, are still decent choices. The overwhelmingly positive response to Lenovo's Retro Thinkpad proposal is a good sign. I think we'll always be able to find a real laptop, though the choices may become more limited.
I'm beginning to believe this as well!
I bought a 2009 MBP 15 second hand for $150. It had "issues" that I've since fixed and now its a pretty snappy machine. I added 6GB RAM and a 240GB SSD and I'm liking it more and more.
The rMBP I have is a 2013 model with 4GB RAM and a 128G SSD. As much as I love the display, the IT Tech in me loves that upgradability of the last gen models.
Am I crazy thinking about selling the rMBP and getting a 2012 MBP 15 second hand???
I bought a 2009 MBP 15 second hand for $150. It had "issues" that I've since fixed and now its a pretty snappy machine. I added 6GB RAM and a 240GB SSD and I'm liking it more and more.
The rMBP I have is a 2013 model with 4GB RAM and a 128G SSD. As much as I love the display, the IT Tech in me loves that upgradability of the last gen models.
Am I crazy thinking about selling the rMBP and getting a 2012 MBP 15 second hand???
Brilliant, that article sums it up.
I found my 2009 13" MBP getting unbelievably slow under El Capitan. I ended up replacing my 750GB WD Blue with a new fusion drive (1TB Seagate SSHD.) Things are running smooth and fast again. I have no plans to replace this MBP any time soon.
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You will say that you can FEEL the "faster SSD" ???
"Better performance" - significantly ?
No offense, but this sounds for me more like pure theoretical and not practical advantages and citations of apple´s marketing……
let´s have a look about benchmarks on everymac.com:
last and best performing nMBP 2015:
Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz Processor Type: Core i7 (I7-4980HQ)
Introduction Date: May 19, 2015 Discontinued Date: N/A
Processors: 1 (4 Cores) Architecture: 64-Bit
Geekbench 2 (32): 13838 Geekbench 2 (64): 15709
Geekbench 3 (32): 3478 Geekbench 3 (32): 12839
Geekbench 3 (64): 3830 Geekbench 3 (64): 14317
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cMBP early/mid 2012
Introduction Date: June 11, 2012 Discontinued Date: October 22, 2013
Processor Speed: 2.7 GHz Processor Type: Core i7 (I7-3820QM)
Processors: 1 (4 Cores) Architecture: 64-Bit
Geekbench 2 (32): 12367 Geekbench 2 (64): 13477
Geekbench 3 (32): 3048 Geekbench 3 (32): 11760
Geekbench 3 (64): 3350 Geekbench 3 (64): 13136
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so - the nMBP is not at all remarkable but NOT-SIGNIFICANTLY ( max. 10-20%) "faster" than the old one… in REAL LIFE they have the same performance
Ok, I am not a gamer and this might be better for gaming, ok.
Might also be that the cooling is better - but this should not be a problem with manual SMCFanControl or MacFanControl. My "old" MBP 2012´s fans run nearly NEVER at more than the basic 2000 rpm, not even with DVDs, Videos, Photoshop, or HD-TV…
For me and many other customers, the retina screen is just useless because nearly impossible to work with Photoshop or without fatigue in office-apps: you see more things that are behind you than things on screen…. and you can do surveillance of colleagues in backside position without turning your head...
That´s the reason why prices for the 2011/2012 models with antiglare/hi-res Screen rests stable and is even slightly going up. Especially for the 2012 models with USB 3.0 and Intel 4000 GPU.
but ok - everyone has his personal standpoint…
BTW: For some 100 USD you can upgrade a classic MacPro from 2009 (!) without any problem - and the "Old" MacPro will be SIGNIFICANTLY OUTPERFORMING even the "most performing" new MacPro (TrashCan) which costs more than 7000 USD…
also in terms of GPU-performance (with an EFI-upgrade by MacVideoCards for 100 USD for 3rd party GPUs) the modified "OLD" MacPro will significantly outperform the "new" MacPro … for a budget of only about 1000 USD-1300 USD…
I got a 250 USD GPU with EFI-Mod for 100 USD for a MAcPro of 2009 - and this "OLD" machine is capable of working with a 5k-Monitor, the "new" MacPros are NOT YET…
Don´t trust in apple marketing…. they aim only at lemmings...
Yes significantly better performance, it is the 13 inch one and it deals far better with hi def video and games and moving files around etc it also deals very well with some scientific apps in Windows that my 2010 struggled with.
Hey I'm not saying that the 2012 is using a bad processor but the HD4000 graphics are fairly shocking. However my main point was that for me a slimmer lighter better battery life computer was what I needed.
I can't disagree more about the screen I love it the glare and reflection are vastly reduced over my last MBP, and the hi RES is much less fatiguing for my eyes than my older screen especially hen reading a lot of text, the excellent movie and photo quality is just a bonus.
Now I understand…
you are not talking about the 15" 2011/2012 model most of us are talking about, but about the 2010 model of the 13" line.
Ok, this was still the VERY old design with a 2-core CPU (nearly same CPU as already in the 2007/8 model) , without integrated GPU (that came later with the 2011 models) and it had only a NVIDIA GeForce 320M that shares memory with the system.
here, you are right: It´s performing much less compared with the nMBP, but ALSO (!) compared with the cMBP 2011/2012 4-core models, who´s benchmarks are 200-300% higher and - as I showed before - nearly performing as good as the newest nMBP models!
MBP 13" 2,66 MHz
Introduction Date: April 13, 2010 Discontinued Date: February 24, 2011
Processors: 1 (2 Cores) Architecture: 64-Bit
Geekbench 2 (32): 3647 Geekbench 2 (64): 4026
Geekbench 3 (32): 1438 Geekbench 3 (32): 2395
Geekbench 3 (64): 1534 Geekbench 3 (64): 2514
Processor Speed: 2.66 GHz Processor Type: Core 2 Duo (P8800)
Details: *The Intel "Core 2 Duo" 45 nm "Penryn" (P8800) processor includes two independent processor "cores" on a single silicon chip.
nevertheless:
For normal use (Office, Internet and so on) even the 2009/2010 models are still "mostly good enough" - at least if upgraded with SSD and 8-16GB RAM (the latter advancing GPU performance due to shared memory with system).
I'm about ready to find a an i7 2012 13" MBP. I love the older design. My wife kidnapped my MBP for school and I miss having the MBP and Thinkpad for my side jobs.
Don't get me wrong--I totally agree. There are a lot of analysts out there right now that REALLY want to believe that in the future, you will walk into an office building and see everyone on iPads instead of Macs or PCs. My challenge to those people is always to walk into a REAL office building in the REAL world and watch how people use their computers. You will see lots of desks with multiple monitor setups, lots of multitasking that demands WAY more than just some kind of split screen option, and lots of use cases where a tablet just isn't going to do the job.
I love my iPad, and I love my Mac. I'm able to get "work" done on both device, and both do a good job with consumption as well. But there are definitely situations where one is better than the other, and more and more often, that option is turning out to be iPad. But for me, those situations are when I want to read, play a game, watch a movie, watch a TV show, browse the web. For anything else, I go to my Mac. I still don't love iOS for productivity, even in its current state.
But I'm also not married to a file system, a keyboard and mouse, etc. I'm always willing to "think different" and adapt to a new paradigm as long as it's quicker and more efficient than what I'm currently doing. Right now, it's FAR less efficient to do something even as simple as typing up a Word document in iOS than it is on OS X.
Yes, the screen kind of sucks on the old one. It was good in it's time but the Retina screens are so much better in sharpness and viewing angles etc.
It is one of the best laptops Apple ever made. It's user upgradeable, has a CD Drive and has legacy ports (firewire, ethernet).
I just upgraded my dad's 13" MacBook Pro to a 256GB Samsung SSD and 16GB RAM....
VROOOOM!
The main problem with using these today is the graphics.. They're getting outdated. Still fine for my uses.
Wish Apple would just update the thing to broadwell and Iris graphics.
Wish Apple would just update the thing to broadwell and Iris graphics.
This as well but I thought I might have been asking too much
A retina Cmbp with up to date specs would be my dream machine.
I still don't mind using my 2012 13" MBP.
On my 2015 15" MBP, I will never ever use that thing to it's full potential and even on my 2012, the same applies. I bought the 2015 because it had a 12GB SSD and 16GB RAM. Never had a computer with that much RAM and SSD storage.
I've already upgraded the RAM in my 2012 to 16GB and the SSD may be coming soon as well but it's not a huge priority. That increased RAM has already taken care of the beachballs and slowness that would come with what I used to get on a 2010 MB with 4GB RAM.
I was using a black 2008 MB till I got my 2015 MBP. After using the 2015, the 2008 was just tooooo slow and I boxed it up and put it in the closet. I bought the 2012 AFTER buying the 2015. If I hadn't bought the 2012, it would have kept bugging me, same reason I bought a 6S and a 6S+.
I look at my 2012 as a 2008 black MB replacement but much faster and capable.
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If there were to be a skylake option for the cMBP it would be my next buy. Use the same alu-body and get TB2, USB 3.1 (it works with the old/current USB-A format right?) and perhaps a PCI-E/SATA III solution for storage. So its still a 2,5 inch slot for storage but you could attach a faster gumstick drive through an adapter if wanting the higher transfer speeds. Most important of all to still have exchangeable memory. I'd bet the battery life would be insane considering the advancements in tech and still having a bigger room for battery.
Instant buy!
Edit: Missed an obvious point, AC-wifi!!!!
Instant buy!
Edit: Missed an obvious point, AC-wifi!!!!
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A really very good article about "classic" and "new" apple-philosophy, read it from "
"Misguided Chutzpah"
on….
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/new-macbook-type-c-apple-hubris,news-49896.html
"Misguided Chutzpah"
on….
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/new-macbook-type-c-apple-hubris,news-49896.html