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I can't help but see this as Amazon using the billion songs as a loss-leader to generate interest in its store. Granted, in this case, it's clear that Pepsi is helping out, but anyway you cut it, it's the same principle. Pepsi gets advertising out of the deal, so it's at least reasonable from that perspective, but Amazon has to be taking some of the hit as well.

A number of big-box stores will take a hit on DVD sales to get customers in the door and in the mood to spend. This seems to work pretty well for retailers.

But I can't, off the top of my head, think of any instance where taking losses on a product to boost market-share has been particularly successful at generating repeat business in that product-arena after you jack up the prices and begin turning a profit. It seems just the opposite. Consumers turn elsewhere.

I don't have numbers to back this up, but my general impression is that loss-leaders only work when one product's losses subsidize a different product's sales. And perhaps that's Amazon's angle: "Shop at Amazon; get a free song; buy something else while you're here."

That might be a great promotional idea, but in the long run for a music store, I don't see it working.

Here's a bad analogy:

A lot of bars in the D/FW area will have big opening parties. They advertise free booze every Tuesday for a month or something. They get slammed every Tuesday for a month, report a huge volume of "business", and that, generally speaking, the grand opening gala was a smashing (or is that smashed?) success.

The problem is that after a month, they've lost a huge amount of money. Now they have to start charging. I don't go to these places after the free booze dries up, for a couple of reasons:

1. You pay the "New! Chic! Happening-Place! Tax." Drinks are pricier than other places that have been around longer.

2. I can't stand "New! Chic! Happening-People!"

As far as the (lack of) DRM incentive goes, I think a couple things can be briefly pointed out in gross generalizations:

1. The vast majority of consumers don't mind Apple's DRM. Either they don't run into the limitation very often, or they don't care about them. If they did, iTunes wouldn't be successful.

2. An even greater majority of consumers fail to make their purchase decisions on "Principle." If they did, retailers like Wal-Mart wouldn't be in business.

The idea of what the consumer wants vs. what a retailer is offering is hugely complex, and I won't attempt to address it all now. Just boiling the idea down to its barest concept marks this as a losing proposition for Amazon and the companies that partner with it to distribute music.
 
If Apple's rental deal is as bad as we hear ($4/24 hours), then Netflix needn't have worried. Unlimited movie streaming for such a low price to combat the iTunes rentals is like swatting a fly with a Buick.

"swatting a fly with a Buick"? No I'd call it a "preemptive knockout punch." They've killed a competitor before the fight even started.

I'd say it is such a bad deal for Apple that I'd not be surprised if Apple didn't pull the movie rental announcement from the Keynote. What an embarrassment to have to stand on stage of talk about $4 per 24 hours the day after Netfliix announces "unlimited" viewing. If they leave the segment in, Steve will have to be really good to keep the audience from laughing out loud. I'm 100% sure that everyone in the live audience will come in knowing about Netflix's new deal.
 
"swatting a fly with a Buick"? No I'd call it a "preemptive knockout punch." They've killed a competitor before the fight even started.

I'd say it is such a bad deal for Apple that I'd not be surprised if Apple didn't pull the movie rental announcement from the Keynote. What an embarrassment to have to stand on stage of talk about $4 per 24 hours the day after Netfliix announces "unlimited" viewing. If they leave the segment in, Steve will have to be really good to keep the audience from laughing out loud. I'm 100% sure that everyone in the live audience will come in knowing about Netflix's new deal.

Netflicks could offer to pay me a quarter for every movie I watch and I still would not be interested. All I want is content for my AppleTV, not more time spent in front of my computer.

It does appear that the video industry is lining up a vast coalition of "Anything but Apple".
 
"swatting a fly with a Buick"? No I'd call it a "preemptive knockout punch." They've killed a competitor before the fight even started.
Well, Netflix announcement does not really matter, as their streaming library is very limited and the quality is fairly poor. (I did not realize there was going to be a fight over a loads of crummy old movies and TV shows that they are giving away along with only three or five decent movies.)

Nobody is going to offer $9 a month deal for recent movies and TV shows that will let you cancel your cable subscription and stop renting movies from a real store. Stop dreaming. That won't allow studios to pay their bills.
 
Sure, the hidebound Mac and Linux users won't be able to avail themselves of it, so they'll just have to console themselves with the other 95% of the population.

That's just not true and further propagates old and tired myths. Man some people have taken this hook, line and sinker. Your saying a 95% Windows marketshare equates to 95% of computer households. That's just a fallacy since you are lumping all the corporate boxes into the mix, unless the Corporate world is suddenly going to start letting their employees watch movies at work.
 
resolution

I am very interested in the Netflix option, but there is still more to this battle than price (although it may be the deciding factor). I haven't used the Netflix watch on a demand feature (on a Mac, you know), but I wonder about the quality of the picture. I can't find any info on this on the Netflix site.

Apple's offering may beat Netflix on features, if not price. I would love to be able to stream HD video to an AppleTV type box for $9/month, but we aren't quite there yet. If video quality remains poor, then the stream will be great for TV shows and kids movies, but probably not up to snuff for real movies on a high quality TV set. Why did you buy that expensive TV in the first place, then?

By the way, I'm still using my 20 year old JVC set until I get a bit more clarity on how all of this is going to shake out. I do feel that this is the year that things are going to finally move.
 
I am very interested in the Netflix option, but there is still more to this battle than price (although it may be the deciding factor). I haven't used the Netflix watch on a demand feature (on a Mac, you know), but I wonder about the quality of the picture. I can't find any info on this on the Netflix site.
I don't know the maximum theoretical quality, but Netflix did not look as good as streaming TV shows from abc.com. Besides, for some reason, after about half an hour or so Netflix claims the quality of our connection is not very good, so it automatically reduces the quality even further. It is nice as a free option to your already existing subscription, but not very exciting at the moment.
 
Well, Netflix announcement does not really matter, as their streaming library is very limited and the quality is fairly poor. (I did not realize there was going to be a fight over a loads of crummy old movies and TV shows that they are giving away along with only three or five decent movies.)
Its doesnt matter. Netflix is the king of movies & they wanna be the king of online distribution. The online library will get better. They have a HUGE user base already giving them leverage. Apple for the most part is very new to the movie game. iTunes video store wasn't a runaway hit like they wanted it to be because they didn't give the user much choices. It was either download & pay full price for ownership or nothing at all.

Stevie got it wrong on this one because he wanted to treat videos like music & the only reason they're going rental is because they're basically being forced to by competitors & studios. Thats pretty well documented.

Apple are the ones playing catchup here, not Netflix.
 
"Hurry hurry hurry, release something before Apple so it doesn't look like we're behind"

what are you talking about ?

Netflix has had online streaming for about a year now.....
i think it started last may or so.

unless netflix updated their library for streaming, it sucks. I like new releases for streaming or atleast newer.

exactly. alot of the "watch it now" movies are terrible and most aren't even close to being popular or well known.
 
yeah . . . oh well

too bad apple loses out on the pepsi music deal, that was a good one and great publicity and a good deal. i switched from diet coke to diet pepsi because of the deal in the past. big time marketing wins another sucker. ah well.

as for nextflix, their online movie availability sucks, big time. no major releases, certainly within the past decade. only a few tv shows are worthwhile, so i'm sure not sweating the non-apple compatability. now, if they made their entire catalogue open as soon as their physical media, dude, that would be another story.
 
Its doesnt matter. Netflix is the king of movies & they wanna be the king of online distribution. The online library will get better. They have a HUGE user base already giving them leverage. Apple for the most part is very new to the movie game.

I have no doubt that Netflix online library will get better, but I am sure it will not be this cheap when it becomes any decent. In that respect, Amazon and Tivo partnership, Xbox or cable TV on demand services are far bigger players. At the moment, Netflix is irrelevant for online movie rental business.

However, I agree, Apple should have provided movie rentals from the beginning. They have lost a year, but I don't see anybody really gaining that much ground, so it is not a big loss. In any case, online movie rental is not a revolutionary product. It will be a more convenient or cheaper alternative to what we already have. Online music was different. It gave consumers the option to buy only the songs they liked instead of paying for 10 other filler songs on a CD. It also popularized podcasting. Relatively speaking, this is bound to be ho hum.
 
Apple needs to push the iPod as the MP3 player of choice for the Amazon MP3 store

This Amazon/Pepsi promotion is interesting because the songs will work on iPods and the downloads even sync right up with iTunes after they download from Amazon.

I hope Apple takes the high road with this one and continues to allow Amazon to use the images of the iPod in their ads for their Amazon MP3 Store. (Currently Amazon shows a stack of MP3 Players with the iPod right there front and center). I would hope the Apple goes as far as encouraging or even partially funding the Amazon MP3 store ads that feature the iPod on them.

In the end I cant see Amazon taking market share away from iTunes for one simple reason - the Amazon MP3 store is absolutely impossible to navigate! Reminds me of the failed Google Video store - great concept but poor user experience.
 
Netflix is working on streaming support for Macs using Silverlight. They demoed a preliminary demo app last May. Silverlight 1.1 supports cross platform DRM so that's the main reason why its not out for Macs yet.

http://www.hackingnetflix.com/2007/05/netflix_demos_s.html

Neato.
I believe that it will only support Intel Macs. Thats a whole lotta PPC people left out. Intel Macs are still pretty new relatively speaking.
 
Decoupling the computer

Netflix will be severely handicapped until a set-top box can be used - which may not be until late summer (LG is a partner).

If Apple introduces a compelling product like an upgraded AppleTV, they can turn the table on Netflix.

The iPod was not the first hard drive based MP3 player nor was it the cheapest. However, it was the first one to use a 1.8" HDD and a beautiful user interface.

If AppleTV can be a standalone product that a Joe6Pack can use (as long as he is able to get the home networking going!!) to choose and rent a movie and then watch it in a few minutes - Apple will win. Most users are not movie addicts that they will sit in front of their computer streaming movies one after another. However, if a lot of people get tempted and buy AppleTV and rent movies, Apple makes a ton of money in selling hardware.
 


As we approach the Macworld Expo Keynote, a few industry news items that may be relevant to Apple...


Netflix Streaming
In face of rumors that Apple would be entering the movie rental arena, Netflix announced that they are allowing customers to stream an unlimited number of movies for a flat monthly fee (starting at $8.99). This service offers customers access to over 6000 titles for streaming. Prior to this announcement, streaming downloads were subject to usage caps based on your subscription plan.

Article Link

So this extra $8.99 doesn't include the regular movie swapping? Interesting...

I think I pay $14 a month for my netflix subscription. First of all, I'm not going to pay $9 more so I can watch movies on my computer. I already pay $140 for my comcast cable and internet. If I can't get the on demand movies onto my TV, I'm not going to do it.

I think Apple did a great job of pushing the Apple TV out a bit. They have also done a good job of kicking out Front Row on all of the new computers. I think Rental is going to be a fantastic addition to the already "user friendly" devices available from Apple.

I think for shareholders, this will be a much bigger market than the ultra portable market.

I hope nobody is let down when they don't get their macbook air for Christmas.
 
i love amazong unbox on my tivo if amazon offers this then it will just make my tivo that much better.

Regarding apple and their business model.
I cant believe people are willing to pay for per movie instead of all you can eat. That is both in music and video i see subscription based offers so much more appealing.

I mean when your done listening to music and your tired of the cd it gets put away never to be heard off it just turns into accumulated junk. Same with movies both in real life and on the computer taking up harddrive space.

I hope something big is announced tomorrow im tired of paying comcast 200+ per month. if i can limit it to 9 bucks a month and all i can watch that will save me a ton of money.

I for one welcome subscriptions....you never really own anything you buy
try to distribute something you bought pubicly and see how fast you get sued.
 
Yes, it's simple. Microsoft licenses out the DRM technology for playback with Windows Media Player, and Apple does not for QuickTime. Thus, you're up to your own for playing back DRM'd media on Mac OS X.

funny, windows media player works on a mac. on mine, anyway. for the past several years. go figure...
 
Its disappointing that Netflix (streaming) isn't available on the Mac. I would much rather spend ~$10 a month then the $70+ a month I am already spending for all the premium channels on Comcast.

If they open up iTunes rentals to the AppleTV with *good* quality I will be all over it. I already own an AppleTV hooked up to a 61" HD TV. So, the quality needs to be at least DVD level, which I know is a tall order.

Out of curiosity, and as someone who's not the biggest tv watcher in the first place, how is it a "rental" if you're downloading it to the drive on your apple-tv? does the movie stop working after a few days, or self-delete? aren't you really buying a copy of it via download? how would it be different than the tv show episodes one can by from itunes now (which aren't to my knowledge classified as "rentals")?
 
It hasn't been updated or supported in several years and it does not work with protected WM content.



Are you nuts! Last year it was not cell phones, it was the iPhone, Apple's biggest product since the iPod. Also, have you not heard about the ultraportable rumors going on for months?

hey, you're right! the iphone isn't a cell phone at all; it's... GOD!!!:rolleyes:
 
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