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Well, thank goodness! I was absolutely terrified that one day, I would accidentally wear the same thing twice. Now, each day I can compare my current outfit with every single outfit I've ever worn before, and ensure that never happens.

And, yes, I'm totally kidding. I wear the same thing every day in various colors. I'm pretty sure someone has noticed this by now.

Amazon kind of reminds me of Apple sometimes, in that they take risks with new products and sometimes, like with the Echo, it pays off big time. Other times, like with the ill-considered Amazon Fire mobile phone, it flames out in a spectacular explosion of incredulity and failure.

I'm pretty sure I know which category this "fashion camera" fits into. But, I could be wrong. I guess we will see soon enough.

Sean
 
Amusing reading some of the posts here because I'm sure some of the detractors probably think they dress smart when they really could use something like this to tell them, no, just no.

This is in the beta stage -- it's invitation only. But I can see where it has potential. It's the next step of similar outfit suggestion software already on many sites. This could save a lot of returns as well as promote a lot of purchases and all without the hassle of going to the store -- something people have less and less time for.

This isn't for me. I tend to keep it simple. But if this can keep one guy out of an Ed Hardy shirt or cargo pants it will have made the world a better place. :D
 
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Amusing reading some of the posts here because I'm sure some of the detractors probably think they dress smart when they really could use something like this to tell them, no, just no.

This is in the beta stage -- it's invitation only. But I can see where it has potential. It's the next step of similar outfit suggestion software already on many sites. This could save a lot of returns as well as promote a lot of purchases and all without the hassle of going to the store -- something people have less and less time for.

This isn't for me. I tend to keep it simple. But if this can keep one guy out of an Ed Hardy shirt or cargo pants it will have made the world a better place. :D
I think it could help people with color blindness or other visual impairments who often rely on help from other people to select their wardrobe. In any other respect I think it sends us on the continual downward spiral of the infantilization of healthy adults via over reliance on technology. And these Amazon devices are too easy to hack, according to my husband, whose crew routinely hack the ones they keep for testing purposes.
 
I think it could help people with color blindness or other visual impairments who often rely on help from other people to select their wardrobe. In any other respect I think it sends us on the continual downward spiral of the infantilization of healthy adults via over reliance on technology. And these Amazon devices are too easy to hack, according to my husband, whose crew routinely hack the ones they keep for testing purposes.

Yes, the infantilization is a problem of smart devices, I agree. But people have had problems dressing well before the invention of the solid state transistor. :D I kinda think style is genetic, not learned, so maybe no harm here. Heck my nearly 80 y.o. mom keeps wearing here 80s Vanderbilt jeans and thinks they look great. Funny thing is my grandfather was a mens haberdasher so maybe it just skipped a generation. Heh.

Also agree about Amazon electronics. I have a FireTV stick so I can get in on occasional Alexa offers. But if I'm not ordering something it's 100% offline.
 
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It always amazing me how may cave dwellers we have on these "Tech" forums.

OMG it's listening to me.
OMG it's looking at me.

Firstly, it's amazing you think you are THAT interesting to anyone.
Hey, you have either a Penis or a Vagina as roughly 50/50 of the population do.

You may pick your nose, fart, scratch your nuts, get drunk.

Sorry, but that's not exactly going to set the world alight.

Can you imagine these people in a future Star Trek and Commander Data?

OMG he can see me, he must be spying, he can hear me, he must be listening, OMG and he can move around.
I will sit here motionless at any time Commander Data is in the room.

Wow, Paranoid much.

Ok, if you think we're all being paranoid just by being concerned about privacy, then how about you set the example. You take down all the curtains and blinds in your house, leave the lights on all night, and walk around naked 24/7. Take the doors off your bathrooms, and while you're at it, set up some cameras in there and in your bedroom, and send the output to some 80 inch screens posted around the outside of your place. Tell us how that works for you.

With that little satirical aside done and posted, maybe I can give you a bit of light about our concerns.

Its common for people to pick out and defeat exceedingly ridiculous concepts, your "penis/vagina" example being a very solid representation of that. You may be too busy building easily knocked-down straw constructs to see reason, but I can try explaining this nonetheless.

Any individual data point seems ridiculous to consider from a privacy standpoint, because of course it is. Especially the longer you consider it on its own, just like when you were a child and you played the game where you said the same word over and over until it lost its meaning and seemed like nonsense. You may bring up nudity in this context, other times you may bring up the setting on your thermostat, still other times the page you're looking at on CNN or whatever. The bills you pay online, the places you buy gas on your debit card, the number of times you get coffee and ring up stars on that pretty gold card - its all irrelevant and ridiculous, isn't it? The privacy concern doesn't deal with any particular thing, because in a closeup, every example seems ridiculous. But consider this illustration:

You take a box of ball bearings and scatter it on a pool table. With your nose about a foot from the pool table you look around using your peripheral vision and you decide that the scattering looks completely random. Then you climb a ladder and look down from the 10 foot ceiling at the pool table. Now you can see little patterns. You might see half a smiley-face, or a plus sign, whatever. Yes, you're doing what the ancients did when they established the odd constellations of our night sky. But you're still seeing patterns, whether they're true representations or projections of your psyche on your observations. For the purpose of this discussion, either reasoning works.

Now you extend the pool table out infinitely in all directions, and you use an infinite number of ball bearings. And hell, for the purposes of this discussion, you have perfect eyesight from any distance. Because I said so. From your height, you can see patterns upon patterns upon patterns. The higher you go, the more ball bearings you can see, and therefore more patterns. You'll see smaller patterns form pieces of larger patterns as you go higher.

That table surface is the net, and the ball bearings are the digital components of your life. The more you add data, and the bigger the picture, the more patterns are seen, and the more is known about what goes on between your ears.

The concern that privacy advocates have doesn't deal with any particular thing, even though privacy concerns manifest at the introduction of the tools to know each particular thing. The true concern deals with pattern recognition and the introduction of tools that can be used for that recognition, whether the patterns can be either real or perceived. Either mode is just as dangerous, with the perceived one just a little more scary than the real one.

Those algorithms that I've been trying to get people here to understand, well, those algorithms don't sleep, they never stop working, and they might just be a little wronger than they are right. If they are right, they know everything you have done - and why. And they will employ that knowledge to make sure they anticipate your wants. Maybe even influence them. If they're wrong, hoo boy. Think of the time you tried to explain yourself to someone you were in trouble with. Maybe your third grade teacher when they found all those pictures of penises and vaginas you had in your Trapper Keeper. "NO! Its not obscene! I wasn't drawing dirty things! I was illustrating how we all have one or the other, in anticipation of an argument I will have twenty years from now!" You knew you were right, but they "knew" otherwise. Because they'd been watching you for some time and felt they had a perfect handle on your mindset, based on everything they'd ever seen you do, plus the physical data they had on you. You were convicted by pattern perception. It didn't feel good, did it?

(Lots of people like to use straw men to reinforce a shaky argument, while I prefer to illustrate with satire, which serves the dual purpose of exposing a shaky position all the while illuminating my own point. Take it or leave it. )

"What are you worried about?" isn't the appropriate question to ask us when we're talking about potential privacy concerns. By doing so you're avoiding critical thought. You've taken a side already and you're asking us to defend a position rather than to consider it for yourself. The correct question should be "how might this go wrong?"


Its not my job to convince you of the potential loss of liberty that products like this can cause. My own personal objections to technology doesn't come from eco-facism or, as your "cave dweller" comment might presuppose, ludditism. As a child I looked forward greatly to the things I saw in media ranging from Star Trek to Popular Science. However, as time passed, I became acutely aware of the loss of personal freedom these things can cause if not implemented with an eye towards that freedom. My objection isn't to the approach of inevitable future tech, but to the loss of the individual, entrepreneurial spirit that made that future tech possible.

I recently read the comments under a TED talk, where a futurist had given a speech on privacy in the future. One of the commenters said something extremely chilling: he felt that true progress wasn't possible until privacy was completely eliminated. He said that all of our lies and fronts cause delays in cooperation and wasting of resources. We can only truly progress "as a society" once all those privacy barriers are eliminated. The usual tired tropes of "full equality" were on full display. I can't decide if I was more repelled by his flawed reasoning or by the several posters below his comment who agreed with him. I find myself chilled to the marrow to think of a world where the loss of privacy is absolute, where everyone has access to every physical marker and every thought of every person alive. Where no political system is even needed because no one can have thoughts that deviate from "the norm".

For some reason, as the pace of technology accelerates, the loss of human individual identity is portrayed as some kind of desirable thing. The egalitarian argument carried out to its full synthetic end means that all of us must be completely identical, and striving for the whole. Like an ant colony. I won't be part of that. My idea of peace is not to have complete conformity, but rather to have complete individualism. Where anyone can do what they please with their own property (including their own body) as long as it doesn't cross over, uninvited, into their neighbor's yard.

YMMV.
 
Most sexist device and advertising ever?

Basically AI to answer, "Do I look fat in this dress?" Wise husbands can now answer, "let's ask Alexa".

Single professional women with lots of money probably going to buy a lot of these. Next up it will give you suggestions for clothes you will look better in, OneClick and you can wear them in 2 days. Technology is getttjng crazy.
 
Most sexist device and advertising ever?

Basically AI to answer, "Do I look fat in this dress?" Wise husbands can now answer, "let's ask Alexa".

Single professional women with lots of money probably going to buy a lot of these. Next up it will give you suggestions for clothes you will look better in, OneClick and you can wear them in 2 days. Technology is getttjng crazy.
Most single professional women I know already know how to dress well. If there's an occasion we are not sure about, it takes about two minutes to look up good advice and illustrations on the internet. Like I did a few months ago when my teenager was going to attend her first opera.

I think a lot of women are going to be wary of having a camera enabled device in their dressing area, unless they are already exhibitionist by nature. There may be some men and women who set these up in a isolated room they can walk into already dressed. That's their choice. I still have my concerns. I say this as someone who as a Samsung with that Bixby feature that wants access to my camera to help me point and shop for stuff. No, I do not have it enabled and I am investigating the ways it could get hacked anyway. Nobody on the forums I've talked to so far wants this feature enabled and we are studiously ignoring it.
[doublepost=1493315966][/doublepost]
Ok, if you think we're all being paranoid just by being concerned about privacy, then how about you set the example. You take down all the curtains and blinds in your house, leave the lights on all night, and walk around naked 24/7. Take the doors off your bathrooms, and while you're at it, set up some cameras in there and in your bedroom, and send the output to some 80 inch screens posted around the outside of your place. Tell us how that works for you.

With that little satirical aside done and posted, maybe I can give you a bit of light about our concerns.

Its common for people to pick out and defeat exceedingly ridiculous concepts, your "penis/vagina" example being a very solid representation of that. You may be too busy building easily knocked-down straw constructs to see reason, but I can try explaining this nonetheless.

Any individual data point seems ridiculous to consider from a privacy standpoint, because of course it is. Especially the longer you consider it on its own, just like when you were a child and you played the game where you said the same word over and over until it lost its meaning and seemed like nonsense. You may bring up nudity in this context, other times you may bring up the setting on your thermostat, still other times the page you're looking at on CNN or whatever. The bills you pay online, the places you buy gas on your debit card, the number of times you get coffee and ring up stars on that pretty gold card - its all irrelevant and ridiculous, isn't it? The privacy concern doesn't deal with any particular thing, because in a closeup, every example seems ridiculous. But consider this illustration:

You take a box of ball bearings and scatter it on a pool table. With your nose about a foot from the pool table you look around using your peripheral vision and you decide that the scattering looks completely random. Then you climb a ladder and look down from the 10 foot ceiling at the pool table. Now you can see little patterns. You might see half a smiley-face, or a plus sign, whatever. Yes, you're doing what the ancients did when they established the odd constellations of our night sky. But you're still seeing patterns, whether they're true representations or projections of your psyche on your observations. For the purpose of this discussion, either reasoning works.

Now you extend the pool table out infinitely in all directions, and you use an infinite number of ball bearings. And hell, for the purposes of this discussion, you have perfect eyesight from any distance. Because I said so. From your height, you can see patterns upon patterns upon patterns. The higher you go, the more ball bearings you can see, and therefore more patterns. You'll see smaller patterns form pieces of larger patterns as you go higher.

That table surface is the net, and the ball bearings are the digital components of your life. The more you add data, and the bigger the picture, the more patterns are seen, and the more is known about what goes on between your ears.

The concern that privacy advocates have doesn't deal with any particular thing, even though privacy concerns manifest at the introduction of the tools to know each particular thing. The true concern deals with pattern recognition and the introduction of tools that can be used for that recognition, whether the patterns can be either real or perceived. Either mode is just as dangerous, with the perceived one just a little more scary than the real one.

Those algorithms that I've been trying to get people here to understand, well, those algorithms don't sleep, they never stop working, and they might just be a little wronger than they are right. If they are right, they know everything you have done - and why. And they will employ that knowledge to make sure they anticipate your wants. Maybe even influence them. If they're wrong, hoo boy. Think of the time you tried to explain yourself to someone you were in trouble with. Maybe your third grade teacher when they found all those pictures of penises and vaginas you had in your Trapper Keeper. "NO! Its not obscene! I wasn't drawing dirty things! I was illustrating how we all have one or the other, in anticipation of an argument I will have twenty years from now!" You knew you were right, but they "knew" otherwise. Because they'd been watching you for some time and felt they had a perfect handle on your mindset, based on everything they'd ever seen you do, plus the physical data they had on you. You were convicted by pattern perception. It didn't feel good, did it?

(Lots of people like to use straw men to reinforce a shaky argument, while I prefer to illustrate with satire, which serves the dual purpose of exposing a shaky position all the while illuminating my own point. Take it or leave it. )

"What are you worried about?" isn't the appropriate question to ask us when we're talking about potential privacy concerns. By doing so you're avoiding critical thought. You've taken a side already and you're asking us to defend a position rather than to consider it for yourself. The correct question should be "how might this go wrong?"


Its not my job to convince you of the potential loss of liberty that products like this can cause. My own personal objections to technology doesn't come from eco-facism or, as your "cave dweller" comment might presuppose, ludditism. As a child I looked forward greatly to the things I saw in media ranging from Star Trek to Popular Science. However, as time passed, I became acutely aware of the loss of personal freedom these things can cause if not implemented with an eye towards that freedom. My objection isn't to the approach of inevitable future tech, but to the loss of the individual, entrepreneurial spirit that made that future tech possible.

I recently read the comments under a TED talk, where a futurist had given a speech on privacy in the future. One of the commenters said something extremely chilling: he felt that true progress wasn't possible until privacy was completely eliminated. He said that all of our lies and fronts cause delays in cooperation and wasting of resources. We can only truly progress "as a society" once all those privacy barriers are eliminated. The usual tired tropes of "full equality" were on full display. I can't decide if I was more repelled by his flawed reasoning or by the several posters below his comment who agreed with him. I find myself chilled to the marrow to think of a world where the loss of privacy is absolute, where everyone has access to every physical marker and every thought of every person alive. Where no political system is even needed because no one can have thoughts that deviate from "the norm".

For some reason, as the pace of technology accelerates, the loss of human individual identity is portrayed as some kind of desirable thing. The egalitarian argument carried out to its full synthetic end means that all of us must be completely identical, and striving for the whole. Like an ant colony. I won't be part of that. My idea of peace is not to have complete conformity, but rather to have complete individualism. Where anyone can do what they please with their own property (including their own body) as long as it doesn't cross over, uninvited, into their neighbor's yard.

YMMV.
This is well written and I hope everyone takes the time to read it. But I worry that our social media culture that insists on reducing human expression into tiny Twitter sized sound bites have rendered modern attention spans too short to take in all of your very insightful points. Too often I see "TL/DR" posted as responses to thoughtful and well-written and well-formatted posts like yours.
 
Ok, if you think we're all being paranoid just by being concerned about privacy, then how about you set the example. You take down all the curtains and blinds in your house, leave the lights on all night, and walk around naked 24/7. Take the doors off your bathrooms, and while you're at it, set up some cameras in there and in your bedroom, and send the output to some 80 inch screens posted around the outside of your place. Tell us how that works for you.

With that little satirical aside done and posted, maybe I can give you a bit of light about our concerns.

Its common for people to pick out and defeat exceedingly ridiculous concepts, your "penis/vagina" example being a very solid representation of that. You may be too busy building easily knocked-down straw constructs to see reason, but I can try explaining this nonetheless.

Any individual data point seems ridiculous to consider from a privacy standpoint, because of course it is. Especially the longer you consider it on its own, just like when you were a child and you played the game where you said the same word over and over until it lost its meaning and seemed like nonsense. You may bring up nudity in this context, other times you may bring up the setting on your thermostat, still other times the page you're looking at on CNN or whatever. The bills you pay online, the places you buy gas on your debit card, the number of times you get coffee and ring up stars on that pretty gold card - its all irrelevant and ridiculous, isn't it? The privacy concern doesn't deal with any particular thing, because in a closeup, every example seems ridiculous. But consider this illustration:

You take a box of ball bearings and scatter it on a pool table. With your nose about a foot from the pool table you look around using your peripheral vision and you decide that the scattering looks completely random. Then you climb a ladder and look down from the 10 foot ceiling at the pool table. Now you can see little patterns. You might see half a smiley-face, or a plus sign, whatever. Yes, you're doing what the ancients did when they established the odd constellations of our night sky. But you're still seeing patterns, whether they're true representations or projections of your psyche on your observations. For the purpose of this discussion, either reasoning works.

Now you extend the pool table out infinitely in all directions, and you use an infinite number of ball bearings. And hell, for the purposes of this discussion, you have perfect eyesight from any distance. Because I said so. From your height, you can see patterns upon patterns upon patterns. The higher you go, the more ball bearings you can see, and therefore more patterns. You'll see smaller patterns form pieces of larger patterns as you go higher.

That table surface is the net, and the ball bearings are the digital components of your life. The more you add data, and the bigger the picture, the more patterns are seen, and the more is known about what goes on between your ears.

The concern that privacy advocates have doesn't deal with any particular thing, even though privacy concerns manifest at the introduction of the tools to know each particular thing. The true concern deals with pattern recognition and the introduction of tools that can be used for that recognition, whether the patterns can be either real or perceived. Either mode is just as dangerous, with the perceived one just a little more scary than the real one.

Those algorithms that I've been trying to get people here to understand, well, those algorithms don't sleep, they never stop working, and they might just be a little wronger than they are right. If they are right, they know everything you have done - and why. And they will employ that knowledge to make sure they anticipate your wants. Maybe even influence them. If they're wrong, hoo boy. Think of the time you tried to explain yourself to someone you were in trouble with. Maybe your third grade teacher when they found all those pictures of penises and vaginas you had in your Trapper Keeper. "NO! Its not obscene! I wasn't drawing dirty things! I was illustrating how we all have one or the other, in anticipation of an argument I will have twenty years from now!" You knew you were right, but they "knew" otherwise. Because they'd been watching you for some time and felt they had a perfect handle on your mindset, based on everything they'd ever seen you do, plus the physical data they had on you. You were convicted by pattern perception. It didn't feel good, did it?

(Lots of people like to use straw men to reinforce a shaky argument, while I prefer to illustrate with satire, which serves the dual purpose of exposing a shaky position all the while illuminating my own point. Take it or leave it. )

"What are you worried about?" isn't the appropriate question to ask us when we're talking about potential privacy concerns. By doing so you're avoiding critical thought. You've taken a side already and you're asking us to defend a position rather than to consider it for yourself. The correct question should be "how might this go wrong?"


Its not my job to convince you of the potential loss of liberty that products like this can cause. My own personal objections to technology doesn't come from eco-facism or, as your "cave dweller" comment might presuppose, ludditism. As a child I looked forward greatly to the things I saw in media ranging from Star Trek to Popular Science. However, as time passed, I became acutely aware of the loss of personal freedom these things can cause if not implemented with an eye towards that freedom. My objection isn't to the approach of inevitable future tech, but to the loss of the individual, entrepreneurial spirit that made that future tech possible.

I recently read the comments under a TED talk, where a futurist had given a speech on privacy in the future. One of the commenters said something extremely chilling: he felt that true progress wasn't possible until privacy was completely eliminated. He said that all of our lies and fronts cause delays in cooperation and wasting of resources. We can only truly progress "as a society" once all those privacy barriers are eliminated. The usual tired tropes of "full equality" were on full display. I can't decide if I was more repelled by his flawed reasoning or by the several posters below his comment who agreed with him. I find myself chilled to the marrow to think of a world where the loss of privacy is absolute, where everyone has access to every physical marker and every thought of every person alive. Where no political system is even needed because no one can have thoughts that deviate from "the norm".

For some reason, as the pace of technology accelerates, the loss of human individual identity is portrayed as some kind of desirable thing. The egalitarian argument carried out to its full synthetic end means that all of us must be completely identical, and striving for the whole. Like an ant colony. I won't be part of that. My idea of peace is not to have complete conformity, but rather to have complete individualism. Where anyone can do what they please with their own property (including their own body) as long as it doesn't cross over, uninvited, into their neighbor's yard.

YMMV.
Your (and my) problem is that the collective is stronger than a group of individuals, at least in the short term.
 
no one wants an Amazon Echo either right... *rolls eyes*... It seems like Amazon and Samsung are the only two companies creating new products. Apple has not released anything innovating in a long time. Nice to see Amazon is still innovating and not just trying to please shareholder. Wake up Tim Cook
 
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no one wants an Amazon Echo either right... *rolls eyes*... It seems like Amazon and Samsung are the only two companies creating new products. Apple has not released anything innovating in a long time. Nice to see Amazon is still innovating and not just trying to please shareholder. Wake up Tim Cook

Yes, in order to be a success, Apple must release a... phone. Another phone. A phone that is slightly different than the last phone, but still a phone. Just like Samsung. Actually, they have that one covered with the iPhone 7, so they are right on top of that stuff.

No, what they really need in order to be innovatoring is to release a really obvious room bug. Not the ones we already have but a really obvious one. With a camera. And make sure it stays on 24/7. But make sure it only "works" when you call out to it. Because its totally not listening, until you... tell it to listen.

So yes, Apple has really fallen behind on devices that spy on people. Wake up, Tim Cook!

Actually, I'd prefer if he'd stay asleep. For as long as it takes to replace him.
[doublepost=1493383672][/doublepost]
Your (and my) problem is that the collective is stronger than a group of individuals, at least in the short term.

I agree. The sunny side is that over time, the collective by definition can only move in one direction, and slowly, while the individuals can split apart, regroup, and allocate effort in whatever way gets the job done the most efficiently.
 
Yes, people care about fashion and how they look. strange indeed.
[doublepost=1493307621][/doublepost]

No everyone is married, nor want to be.
You're right, having an always on internet-connected camera in your bedroom just so you can take "selfies for fashion" is totally normal and benign. No other easy ways to check how you look or anything.

Don't get me wrong, there are useful applications for something like this, however there are also some devastating pitfalls here and yes it is strange when taking a selfie or mirror selfie isn't that big of an issue now...
 
This product isn't for beta males with no interest in fashion

Very predictable responses in this thread

Right! Because the Alpha Males are busy showing their backsides to a robot camera in their closets asking it if these jeans make them look fat.

But, two points for using a stereotype in a post without a smiley.

I know many people who are very into fashion. They aren't superficial - that is just important to them. They all have one thing in common, though - they trust their own fashion sense, and would never, ever, purchase this product. They have mirrors. Everywhere. Insane amounts of mirrors. But I just can't see this succeeding. It is essentially an admission that they don't know what they are doing and need help.

Like I said in my earlier post, though, making money is about taking risks, and this is definitely one of them. I could easily be wrong.

We shall see.

Sean
 
Ok, if you think we're all being paranoid just by being concerned about privacy, then how about you set the example. You take down all the curtains and blinds in your house, leave the lights on all night, and walk around naked 24/7. Take the doors off your bathrooms, and while you're at it, set up some cameras in there and in your bedroom, and send the output to some 80 inch screens posted around the outside of your place. Tell us how that works for you.

<snip>

Very well thought out and described. Agree or not, it is certainly food for thought.

Thanks for this!

Sean
 
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